NefMoto

I'm trying to get my car fully winter functional on e85 and am having issues tuning my idle. I was under the impression that kfzw was used for idle timing as well. no matter what I do my timing at idle hovers around 8-9 degrees. I've searched the forum and couldn't come up with anything. Could someone please lead me down the right path?

attached is a log of a coldstart.

ZWWL is maybe what you are looking for

Does it hover in idle in general or only on warmup?
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=320.msg27838#msg27838
this could help too

I added a few degrees via zwwl to no avail. Could torque monitoring be my problem? Right now I'm stock mirl/miop. And yes this problem is all the time even warm. On a severe cold start the car will start and die after 5 sec or so. Not positive timing is my issue but I'm unable to change it somehow. Maybe I'll just raise minimum timing haha.

Pretty sure KFZW is all you need for idle timing. 8-9 degrees are not normal.

So it must be torque intervention somehow... Hmm. My kfzw in idle areas is 12-16.

Disabled torque monitoring. there's definitely something I'm missing here....

Have a look at LLRMR. Idle ignition angle is a result of basic and optimal ignition angle (torque modelling) and torque reserve at idle.

I see. So I'm guessing KFMRES is the map I'm after if I would like to alter this.

Found kfmres and tested it. That was my problem. Timing up around 16 now running smooth as butta.

Im interested in KFMRES screenshot before and after  :-*

I *.7'd the whole table. Kfmres and kfmresk. I started off by zeroing the whole table to see if I had the right map. That produced results I hoped. Idle timing was equal to kfzw but it caused it to hunt really bad. I'll get some screen shots up in a bit.

Here's some screenshots

My Definition file thread
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6341.msg58797#msg58797

in case anyone needs clarification on torque reserve (I did)
http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Idle_torque_reserve

After A TON of trial and error I've figured out a decent strategy to fight cold start issues on E85. I found KFNLLNST by a great guess (stock is all 0's on my bin???) and I changed it to give me a little higher idle on cold start ups. In unison with that I 0'd out KFMRES/K in the higher idle areas allowing my Warmup to use all the timing it needs. When the car warms up the idle drops back down into areas with 80% of the stock torque reserve. Any less of the torque reserve proved to make the idle hunt when fully warmed up. It seems like the throttle is just not precise enough at such low loads. Either that or the idle pid would need adjustment for higher timing. Anyway just thought I'd share because it took me a good amount of tuning to get this straightened out decently. I'm excited for some really cold weather to see how it fares.

here's a shot of the maps I edited...

Did that really cold weather ever come and if so, how did it fare?

Still had a few issues but it was definitely bearable. Kfnllnst was a big help and when I finally switched to 630cc injectors it made a big difference as well. I think the wider spray pattern on the 630s probably helps atomize better. My kfmres is back to stock.

I heard that running at a higher PSI might help too.  Like 5bar helps to atomize the fuel coming out of an injector more so vs 4bar and 4bar vs 3bar.

Higher pressure helps with fuel atomization but at the price of excessive load on fuel pump.

This it true, I guess on a stock pump that might not be ideal.  I guess when this came up it was in regards to aftermarket highpressure/flow pumps.  I'm not sure if it's such an issue with these.

Yea. I'm still on the stock pump and 3 bar fpr... definitely not helping.

That means you shouldn't bother with E85.

Ha oh yea? Have you ever tried it? What I mean is I've seen a lot of people say this but have never seen any proof. What I have found with my own logging is I have plenty of fuel. Sure maybe I'm working the fp pretty hard but what's worst case? It goes out and I need a new one anyway? my fuel trims don't creep at all in high boost/rpm. This is on a k03 at high altitude though which is definitely my saving grace. 160 peak load.

Here's my thought process

630cc/min = .63L/min × 4 cylinders × 60min/hour = 150 L/hour @ 100% injector duty cycle.

However I'm only seeing about 60% IJDC so 90 liters per hour.

You really think the stock fp can't handle 90lph?

I've seen issues around the 100lph mark... depending on the age of the pump and the state of the filter! ymmv!

That said, though, that is at 4bar, not 3.

Yea it's looking pretty good for now but this car is just a science experiment to me ha. not really worried if I blow something up *knock on wood*. planning on a dw265 / k04 /full  exhaust in the future but right now I'm just test pipe and 630cc injectors. Making great power for about $200 worth of mods haha.

I think also some of my cold start problems may have been TVUB related. spent a little while tonight ironing out my fueling.

Here's my latest log if anyone is interested. still work to be done though  :(

Considering a proven E85 rated pump (the walbro 450) is what, 110 bucks? I would not even consider using the stock pump, even at 3 bar base pressure. I have had them fail unexpectedly on pump gas. IMO, this is asking for heartache.

I won't even use it on K03's with E85, and I've done quite a few of those setups. I have SEEN it leaning out.