NefMoto

I'm having big trouble with this car. It's a 3-liter s4 engine and it has rs4 injectors, rs4 maf and rs6 turbos.
It pulls all the timing and also the desired afr goes down, so I suspect this has something to do with torque monitoring..
 
I bet I did something obvioulsly wrong but i just can't figure out what the problem is.. And I really need some help.

Maybe I will make myself look like an idiot, but hey, maybe because I am one?!  :P

And have I done it anywhere near right with iop/irl maps?

I've come to the point now, that Im considering pay one of you guys to make me a basemap, so if anyone of you guru's is interested, let me know!

Thanks!

(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/WestfarmRacing/desiredafr_zpsb0b5fcea.png)
(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/WestfarmRacing/timing_zpsf3fc090a.png)
(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/WestfarmRacing/Engineload_zps5e9354e1.png)
(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/WestfarmRacing/airmass_zps5883daa7.png)


(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/WestfarmRacing/kfmiopkfmirl_zps2e549d67.jpg)

Your kfmirl and iop are completly crap, to put it honestly!

If your struggling use the interpolator to get a good start.

Okay, was afraid that i got that part wrong. I will check the interpolator if i can find it. Do you think it is iop/irl that is my issue? I just scaled it up manually as i thought it would be for higher load..

Thnx for your input! Really need some  critics and tips now, and maybe i get how it works. Will do some more reading tomorrow, my eyes are bleeding now!

So, read some more and I hope I have some more understanding now.. These are my New IRL/IOP maps, haven't tried them yet though.. Any better?

The only strange thing is, when I saved this I had 238 in last axis of IOP, but I see now when posting them that it's Down to 224 ???
Will have to check this before flashing..

(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/WestfarmRacing/kfmirlkfmiop_zpscc1b21be.jpg)

You need to read some more bud. Do it yourself, don't pay for a tune unless you really have to. Learning along the way is all part of it, and how most people here learnt the knowledege they know.

In KFMIRL you are saying that at 99.9072% throttle load is 238.7395%.

In KFMIOP you are saying that at 224.9814% load you will be running 99.7699%

Have a look at the standard tables.. You should quickly spot the relationship.

Bump the last column at 99% ped to much higher value  -like 299 load and riverse in MIRL  at 299 load you want 99% pedal. That way when your at WOT, you make sure you have all the load possible. This will later be caped with LDRXN...... As it is you ar not ordering enough Laod
238

299?! This car will not see very high boost on petol I think, the engine is a 3-liter built originally for e-85 so its on quite high CR, an the rs6 turbos will give enough air at low pressure.
I know i can cap it with LDRXN, but now I have scaled up the last 5 lines in IRL gradually, and then used the interpolator to generate the new IOP.

I will test with 238 and see if I get rid of the interventions and all first, then raise the load if needed. 

I understand your intentions, but it really does not matter which value you have in last load column as long it is high enough. Later on, you regulate this with lrdxn, and hbn and so on.

I have tried bumping, but it doesnt request more than 200 load what ever i do...

HBN?

Yeah, what does your LDRXN n HBN look like?

200% load on a 3.0 is much more than 200% load on 2.7L.
Isn't there a maps for displacement as well, that need too be altered when going 2.7-3.0???
At 200 load, you should with correct timing be making some serious power on rs6 turbos???

About HBN, what should it be at? It isnt just a pressure limiter? I have raised it according to what i thought was a pressure limit..
All of a sudden now after dialling iop/irl in, i raised ldrxn to match my requested load and it did this time. I cant figure out why it didnt before when i tried to raise it. I still have some interventions and the problem i think is that i always have higher actual load than requested.
Is there maps for displacement? That's interesting! How big influence does these have, and which are they?

There have been dozens of threads about this already.

log ldrlts_w (ChargeLimitTurboProtection)


http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Larger_displacement

Thanks. Will look into this and add ldrlts_w first thing tomorrow! It's bedtime over here now..  ;)

I fixed dhbn (i see i made a mistake there) and changed kumsrl for 3.0, that helped a lot. But this engine was originally built for e85, so i had trouble with KR at very low boost and timing. The conclution is that its an alcoholic, and needs to be treated that way  ;)

New fuel system and bigger injectors are going in for running on e85.

And i have this theory that aftermarket pistons are noisier and make the knock voltages go up. Because it was high when it shouldnt even at low load.. The pistons are indeed shorter and have more clearance, so it makes sense to me. Anyone with experience?

I also have forged pistons and I think they make a lot more noise.
If I look in vcds, some of cyl have 3 times more voltage than the others on Idle.
Also on boost, it is the same, very high voltage readings.
You could alter those tables and lower sensitivity, but I don't care about it.
It does not disturb my engine running e85.

Forged pistons also have more clearens to wall vs OEM pistons due to a diff material behavior with temperatures. Hense forged engines sound more on coldstarts and use more oil.

That's exactly what I meant. Knock voltages are high, and i'm not sure if it's piston clearance or actual knock volts..

We decided not to risk it now and will be running e85 instead. Nice not to have to worry about knock, and I know this engine puts out Nice numbers on boose  :)

It's the same With a 2-liter aeb stroker we have, its over 9,5cr and we tried to dyno it on 98oct and it knocked, we tried lowering timing resulting in heat and immediate turbo-spool.

Never came out of it, decided to go for e85 and dynoed 550hp without problem on that one

This is an s4 engine, not rs4. Going to check the injector sheet here now, and order something Direct-fit ASAP.

Boose rules!!  ;D

You can always check if you are having actual knock with an earphone.

Yes i know, I am roadtuning it, doesn't have a dyno but I Guess detcans work on the road as well..

so RS4 injectors on 3.0L? RS4 injectors wouldn't be waaaaay too small for any serious boost even on 2.7t? Have you logged your lambda/AFR with external wideband o2 sysstem? b/c it surely looks to me like you are leaning out badly if you're requesting 0.78 lambda and car is kicking in system protection and brings fueling down to 0.65 lambda but without effect since you're probably out of injector IDC already.

Can you log injectors and egt sensors too?

It is empty on fuel also yes. The idea was to drive it at 480-500cr hp over the winter on rs4 injectors and do a makeover in the spring, i had these injectors on my rs4 with same turbos at just over 500 before, so figured it would work on this too, but no. Anyways, ordered 1000cc injectors, tfsi coils and surge-tank now

of course i had a wideband in it, and yes, it was leaning out upwards so i stopped it there. It was never supposed to see any serious boost for now, didn't even go medium boost :P

Well, so that explains everything. You're probably getting so much timing pull due to leaning out that car tries to limit torque as it reached a limit to what it can pull on timing (12 degree is max in stock tune).

I just wanted to agree and say that with my last car tuning after installing wiseco pistons I too noticed more noise in the knock voltage on a eclipse 4g63. It isn't cylinder specific readings but a noticeable change from stock pistons on the 6 bolt. I was also told the same things about noise on cold startup would cause false readings and to not base my timing off a engine that's not fully warmed up. I think someone suggested a few light pulls after operating temperature  before logging was good because pistons where up to the correct temps (expansion of metal changes skirt clearance and shape of piston **so I was told**) and phantom noises would be less noticeable. You kind of filter out the regular noise. It was common on most builds to remove balance shafts and use poly mounts and this added to the "noise" also.

The stock eclipse ecu at least that is how I was told to tune it. There optimal voltage pattern tables where not modified but yet we figured out what to ignore. I guess the same approach would maybe work in a way for you in the ME7 world.

ME7 is pretty good at filtering out unnecessary noise, there are tons of high power builds out there with custom pistons and having normal timing, no sign of phantom timing pull. You pull is caused by other factors, you induced knocking yourself by under fueling the engine.

Okay, I know now it was under fueled. The only thing that's strange is these injectors didn't go near what they did on my rs4 engine.
ev14 1000cc is laying here now, will try gasoline on those first and see how well it can run on gas first, then I know for sure if there was anything more than fuel limiting.

But the fun starts with boose, that's for sure..

You should be happy that engine didnt blow up lol

Do you log your actuall WB02 when tuning?
What was your actuall AFR? Had too be very lean?

On this engine, it was okay until i got up to 5000rpm then it started leaning out. On the rs4 engine they worked ok for a little over 500hp.

Lesson learned. Just throw some more fueling on it and it will be perf :)

What fuel pump you have? B/C if these would produce much more power on RS4 before leaning out with RS4 fuel pump, they might be leaning out not due to injectors themselves but insufficient fuel supply.

It has a 044 pump, so that wouldnt be the issue. Figured it could also be bad power to the pump, this will all be rebuilt on this on now with surge-tank and relay.

..