NefMoto

Ok guys i just confused my self ???
So I'm about to put in e70 as it's winter here. Stoic is 9.8, but my maps are going to try and meet 14.7.
So do i adjust my maps to 9.8 at idle? Then .85 for wot?

Or doi just throw in e85 and adjust krkte to theoretical value using excel. Then adjust from fuel trims?

The second alternative was right.
Just start with basic krkte. It is all the same procedure.

You need to stop confusing Gas and Ethanol scales before you damage something.

I tend to over think things. Well putting e85 well e70 in right now. Wish me luck!

Stoich = lamda of 1.0, on gas or alcohol.
14.7 can still be read as stoich on E85 (or whatever mix).

Alrigh i know this is wrong info but can someone correct my thinking and where I'm wrong so i can learn from this.

So e85 stoic is 9.8air molecules to 1 gas molecule and gas is 14.7
There car is shooting for 14.7 or 1.0
So you put e85 in and raise krkte obviously because you need 30% more fuel. So your injectors open for that much longer for each m/s
How does the car run right is e85 stoic is 9.8 but our cars shoot for 14.7?
Once again i know this info is false this is for learning purposes

The vehicle can not "shoot" for 14.7, it targets lambda 1.
Forget the stupid AFR denomination and just work with lambda all the time, and your life will be much easier. Whether it is petrol or diesel.
Lambda 1 is stoich, and yes you will need to add 30% fuel.

Agreed. You'll not find AFR ANYWHERE in any Motronic documentation for a reason. Stop using AFR, start using lambda, and all of your confusion should subside.

KRKTE is about fuel quantity. That is all you need to know.

I've always wondered where everyone gets the 30% figure. 14.7/9.7 = 1.51 I've always multiplied my k factor (krkte) by that and get within a couple percent. So what I'm  saying I guess is typically I add 50% more fuel.

30-50% sounds right, it depends what blend it is running.

The best way is an ethanol sensor regardless for a fully flex-fuel car.

Gasoline use 14,7:1 in mass
Ethanol use 9:1 in mass


14,7/9 = 1,63  (You need 63% more mass)

gasoline SG is about 0,72
Ethanol SG is about 0,81

1,63 x (0,72/0,81) = 1,41 => You must add 41% more flow


You can estimate AFR of any blend just make percentual
example
E85

0,85 x 9 + (1-0,85) x 14,7 = 9,855

14,7/9,855 = 1,49 x (0,72/0,81) = 1,326 that´s your start point to adjust KRKTE

Never seen it explained with specific gravity involved. Thanks that's awesome.

So know i know the science behind it. I have yo give it to who ever created krkte calculator! That got me in the ball part. Still having timing isdues at idle.. my rpms jump a little bit.

Kfmres for sure. If you added timing in the idle area you messed up the torque balance.

I muplied by 10 percent and i still did it then i went to original value i.e. your values posted in other post. Then reduced by 10 percent and it got worse. It only does it at certain temps.

IF only your idle is bouncing, try adjusting TUVB/FKKVS to something more "empirical"...don´t forget to see if TEMIN is ok