NefMoto

Can some one please check that i have deleted SAI correctly in my file, car will not go into cold start strategy with the raised rpms!

SO SINCE I FIRST POSTED THIS I STARTED AGAIN AND JUST DONE EVAP DELETE THEN SAI IN THE FOLLOWING ORDER.
CDTES(evap) 181B2- 00
CDLDP(evap) 181A8- 00
EVAP DTC     1C4C4- 00
CDSLS         181B0- 00
ESKONF 1 changed. AA FF 00 30 E3 F8 30 to AA FF 00 30 E3 FB 3C  

All was ok and cold start was still kicking in until I noticed I had not zeroed the following and when I did the cold start strategy stopped again
CWKONABG (SAI) changed from 05 to 00.

I ask please can someone tell me why this would do this after this edit.

thanks

come on someone is bound to have the answer, have i posted in the wrong section or something? ???

Test it. Report back. This is a no risk situation. What's the problem with giving it the old college try before asking, let alone expecting help?

I have tested it, and no cold start kicking in.
Is that to be expected after an SAI disable or have I just done something wrong, The SAI was deleted on my AL file and the cold start still kicked in.

I've also just tried zeroing MSLUB,MSLBAS(even though i should not need to), but still no luck. Im starting to think that there is something up with the stage 1 v7 tuned file im working from and thats whats causing my issue. Reason I say this is because I noticed MSLUB has been altered from stock for some reason.
Ill start with a stock file and see how it go's from there.

When you 00'ing MSLUB/MSLBAS, did you set CDSLS/CWKONABG back to 01/05 ?

SETTING CDSLS/CWKONABG back to 01/05 AND KEEPING MSLUB/MSLBAS '00' HAS WORKED FOR ME.  ;D THANK YOU FOR THE ADVICE.
THE FIRST AND MOST POPULAR METHOD DID NOT WORK FOR ME!!
ON TO REAR 02'S

I'm happy that i could help someone

Me too  ;)

Added to wiki... hopefully others can benefit! Thanks!

Just out of curiosity, what's the benefit of having the "cold start strategy"?

Is it to warm up the engine or the catalytic converter faster?

In my (limited) experience with SAI, in cold weather, you need raised rpms during warmup or the motor will run very badly w/o SAI. I am not sure what the OP's issues were, however.

Any vehicle starts with raised rpms when cold for a set period of time, correct?
when I went down the route of looking to disable my SAI (because it has been removed) using CDSLS and CWKONABG the raised rpms on cold start didn't happen for whatever reason.
Using MSLUB/MSLBAS the SAI disable worked ok.
Im using the stage 1 v7 tuned file atm and it may have an issue for some reason, and something tells me the stock file isn't completely stock. Ill have to have a closer look and maybe try the first method for stock.
Thanks for the help lads.

Keep us updated, thanks.

Just to confirm the stock AK 0003 in the stage 1 thread is most certainly stock as I put it along side two other sources, but the MSLUB table has been fiddled with slightly in the stage 1 v7 tuned file for some reason. Don't really think it would matter much though.
stock
10.003   12.404   14.505   16.805   20.807   22.807   24.808   26.609
v7 tuned
10.000   12.399   14.500   16.810   20.810   22.810   24.809   26.610


 

Has anyone stopped to ponder why you're setting CWKONABG to 00 in the first place, or why non-SAI files have it set to 01?

To that I don't have an answer, I'm just following what I have read on the forum and s4 wiki. I must need to do more reading :) 

S4 wiki says:

The first, and most popular sets the monitor to unsupported (falsely shown as PASSED in VCDS) by setting both of the following codewords to 0:

    CDSLS
    CWKONABG

I was wondering the same thing. Isn't CWKONABG for Catalytic heating; set to 0 if you have no Cats?

I am still confused about the lean & rich warm-up mentioned in the FR and if it has anything to do with the raised RPM or not :)

Im confused now after reading various posts, so im going to post up my setup.
I have my SAI pump and combi valve solinoid removed with vac pipe plugged off. Relays are still in place. The DTC that I have had is insufficient flow detected. I have 3" high flow cat and the rear o2 is still connected, for that I've had efficiency below threshold DTC.
Now I dont give a dam about readiness or heating the cat up quicker, or even the raised rpms at cold start if its really not needed, as long as the engine is heated up correct with the appropriate  fueling.  What ideally do I need to zero inorder just to stop codes without hintering fuel trims.

Update, now that I know,
Set CWKONABG to 1 instead of 5.  Tells the ECU that SAI is not installed, but cats are installed. Set CWKONABG to 0 tells ECU no SAI and no cats.
And that's were i went wrong

Updated s4 wiki. Thanks.

Did you ever figure out why you had no raised rpm at cold start?

I have been running CWKONABG=0 and my engine RPM is always raised at a cold start in the morning.

Just curious to know what was the reason why your cold start strategy was disabled :)

Not entirely sure if my problem is related to this, but I removed SAI, zeroed out MSLUB and sometimes on cold starts my exhaust gets ridiculously loud for a few minutes. It's all good for the first second or two, but when the RPMs settle it gets super loud. I haven't done any logging, but I have a feeling it's running really rich, maybe there's some VVT trickery going on too. This is on a wideband 1.8t with a test pipe. I can't be the only one experiencing this. I don't have anything to compare since I never ran this motor with SAI, but I think this happened when I still had a cat only it was much, much less noticeable.

And nevertheless if to sum up the results, during removal of SAI and the catalyst that it is necessary to put in CWKONABG?

It's likely VVT.

Sorry for grave digging, I just want to leave a summary here for future people who'll read it.

Basis value for CWKONABG is 0.
SAI: +4
Cat heating: +2
Cats installed: +1

Blackbeast thanks for sharing!
after reading your post it became clear,
Why one file had value 5 and one file had value 7  in CWKONABG

Same engine but different build years..

Also "raised idle" - there is cat heating where it raises the idle on start, creates lots of overlap, makes ignition late and injects a bunch of fuel to get the cats hot faster.
This is done any time engine is considered cold, not specifically if it's actually very cold outside. So if you disable cat heating, you also "lose" (which is good for the engine and fuel consumption) this behavior.
After that idle is only higher if it's really neccessary, like if you are starting a car from really cold, as that is still in the ECU (usually - there are some where it isn't and you get cold start bogging issues with no cat heating, because they never calibrated it).

prj what is your opinion on SAI with respect to cat heating in applications where we just don't care about cats at all?

I am not sure I fully understand the question.

Cat heating works by retarding ignition, creating overlap and dumping fuel to increase the reaction rate of the cat and make it hot fast.
SAI is added to make cat heating even faster. To dump even more fuel into the combustion chamber and then have the additional injected air from the SAI to help the reaction in the catalytic converter to make it hotter even faster.

Dumping excess fuel into the engine on cold start washes the bores, increases ring wear and fouls the oil, so it is bad for the engine.
Rapidly heating up the converter by increasing the reaction a lot isn't good for the converter either.

The only reason this is done is so that the car can hit emission targets faster from cold start. Which is kinda funny because more fuel is expended doing it this way - it's a rebalancing of combustion gases.
So if you don't care about that, I don't see any reason for any car to have it enabled or have cat heating enabled in the first place... Disabling cat heating will always reduce fuel consumption and be less harsh to the engine on cold start.

Thanks, that's exactly the information I was looking for.

Hello!

This is an old thread, but maybe my answers live here, without the need of creating a new thread.
I already have a thread here, but with a little offset topic as the problems evolved. :)
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=22730.msg165570#msg165570

I want to delete SAI, and did as the second method that the S4 Wiki says.
Zeroed out MSLUB, and MSLBAS, and changed ESKONF byte 5 and 6.

I get raised idle rpm, but I did have that before SAI configuration becuase I had a hole in one of the SAI hoses, that is corrected now, but a little high idle anyway, it is lowered, but high.

I have not touched CWKONABG, so it is default at 5.
Is this my problem?
S4 Wiki points out that when going with MSLUB and MSLBAS I should leave CWKONABG at stock value, so I don´t think so, but not sure.

Or do I have a intake leak/evap/pcv leak somewhere?

Readiness monitor says failed on SAI, EVAP & Cat.
I thought that atleast SAI monitors should have passed with theese values..