NefMoto

I have been following the 2.7T Stg1 Tuning thread but I have applied all the changes to a 4Z7907551K Bin running on a 01 A6 2.7T TIP.  I know this is based on the M file and I have completed all the changes converting over memory locations to the K box (needed the IMMO working, car stolen, long story :P ) 
The bin is loaded into my Q box and my L box (thought it might have been an ECU so tried both with same results).   Car runs awesome, throttle seems a little touchy but acceleration is great for a while BUT after a bit I notice the car looses it's preppiness  and the car has a hard time accelerating, even at WOT.  Noticed when its cooler it runs better and it seems like I almost need to fully let go of the accelerator to get the prepiness back which lasts only about 25% of the throttle.  Would this have anything to do with the car being a TIP? (Logging not setup yet and no codes thrown).  Edited out the EGT and rear O2 sensors.  Followed the Tuning thread down to a T several times but hitting this brick wall.  Anyone have any thoughts??

You have no logs, and have given us nothing with which to help you. That's why your original post was deleted.

Hopefully after this weekend I will come back with some logs (wanted to swap out my ignition coils as well this weekend and check my spark gap just to make sure all maintenance items are up to par) I apologize for not having my ducks in a row just yet. On another note I put a stock K bin on with edited out EGT and rear O2, the car runs really nice. :S  I will do my homework before coming back for help.

What maps did you change specifically and why/how.

Did you just copy the changes posted from that thread because that's what it sounds like.

Sounds like you need to tune back MLHFM. Your getting Deviation Limp. Also you may want to try and bump up KFMLDMX. The Ram Air box will suck in more air at high speeds so you need to calibrate for this. everyone who follows the stage 1 build at this time will also have to play with these calculations.

(https://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/bullshit.jpg)

I ended up following FlyBoy's changes as I am learning and wanted to keep everything consistent as I figure out how everything links together.  Get the basics but I learn by doing so this seemed like a good base start.  Got my car tuned up now, found my gap a little large (0.032 inch) and one plug loose...  So will run the modified ECU once I replace my cracked expansion tank. 
I just thought maybe the TIP car has another set of variables I need to alter as well (Read couple things about Torque converter protection and such..).

You copied flyboys changes, but are you sure you had all the map addresses right?

Manually went through HEX editor with a Mbox comparing addresses to my new K box and had TunerPro Display the exact same scalars as FlyBoy's original  images before his changes. I will include my files below just in case I missed something obvious.. :S Forgot to mention that anything in the DEF file that has a (K) next to it, those values have been converted over.

How does the ESP tie into the ECU programming wise? Discovered today if I turn it off then car regains all the horsepower.  Noticed the ESP icon flashing couple times at WOT, so I disabled it with the button and discovered that this somehow ties into the ECU and dumbs down the profiles..

Has anyone come across this issue with a tuned bin? (ESP affecting the performance?)

Generally we always assume ESP is off when tuning. The ABS module determines torque intervention and sends it to the ECU to execute. We have limited control in the ECU over that intervention, although it can be set to be ignored. It is a complex topic, since there are many components to ESP: ASR, ESC, EDL, etc. all of which are tuned from the factory with the assumption they are working together as designed.

Longer discussion here

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7487.0

didn't know that... I had it always ON, and I think that's where my issues are coming from.   Played more with it on drive home and confirmed that with the ESP off car has no problems, with it on it starts to limit the throttle and boost.

I should be safe to just code it as per S4 Wiki and have it disabled right from the get go each time...

Now I gotta see if I can alter the cluster bin to reverse the light on the cluster to have it come on when ESP is on, off when it's off.. :)

See the thread that Nyet linked to, if you code out esp in the ecu, you also disable ABS and thus remove your brake biasing.

just finished reading that thread couple times, so looks like there is no easy way out to do this, well with keeping ABS unless you replace the module to an older one... What are you guys doing to run tuned files and ESP? 

Hit the button before doing any pulls.

lol   I should build an Arduino to sense WOT and automatically press the ESP button... :D 
Kidding... :)

So the S4 Wiki procedure will disable both ESP and ABS brake Bias or will it just permanently disable the ESP keeping Brake bias? (no mention in WIKI about the bias) :S

The only thing it does is cripple the ASR... which means ESP, EDL, etc are all still active, and there might be very bad side effects if the ECU doesn't do what the ABS/ESP controller expects it to do.

Modify at your own peril.


If I'm honest, that is a perfectly good solution :)

haha I already have an arduino running behind the deck to fool the deck into thinking it has a Cd Changer.. (Wired in a Bluetooth audio module and added an IPOD connector to give me an Aux input controlling the ipod via serial output assigned to the deck buttons :)

Only used like 3 outputs/inputs so plenty spare ones to add ESP auto off,  idea planted..

Keep us updated! I definitely think it is a fine idea. You'll probably want some way for the arduino to know what the "current" state of ESP is.. im pretty sure the button is a single momentary switch that toggles the state (internally) in the ABS/ESP controller; I don't think it is a on/off thing (from an electrical perspective).

If you do, please publish the sketch.

All it would take is 3 wires... 2 inputs, one output to pulse ESP button.. Can solder one to the dash cluster and use an unused pin on the cluster harness to pickup the LED (should be around 2volts...) 2nd one is pickup the 5v signal from the pedal potentiometer. both can be fed right into an arduino...  
Figured out that pin 32 on the cluster on blue harness goes negative when ESP is OFF.. enabling pullup on arduino should give me ESP status..
now I think for the sketch, if it senses a quick throttle change then disable ESP otherwise turn ESP back on, or should it just be when it gets close to the WOT point?
hmmm.... project in motion.. :)

Another Idea...
Read over in the VW forums that simply unplugging the YAW sensor does the trick as well (disables ESP but keeps ABS).. Could we just put an extra toggle switch on the dash to enable/disable the system? Might be easier than arduino route.. Thoughts..?

That might be worth pursuing, tbh all the asr has done so far is piss me off, so I'd like to disable it permenently. 

I just yesterday tuned an 01 allroad with 551K, made a file from scratch on the spot... Had no issues with ASR/ESP.

Most of the M-box lines up pretty good, some maps you will need to edit even for STG1 will have to be aligned properly as they are off, so most importantly you need to makes sure all the maps you're editing are defined correctly BEFORE actually editing them.

Then you need to know what changes to make and why you're making them. Stop using the flyboy/community thread, it's a waste of time and you're not learning anything if you're just going to copy and paste everything over.

I think the vehicle has to be stationary to enable/disable ESP


I'm not so sure this works properly.

What somebody REALLY needs to do is to read/write the ABS controller :)

I have read the bosch 5.7 controller in other applications. I wouldn't know where to start with modifying it.

I'd settle for being able to reverse engineer it so at least we know what does what (disconnect yaw controller, pull fuse 42, etc).

Still learning all of this, I do get the basic idea behind changing the various parameters. I was hoping for more of a proof of concept (Converting M /L to a K box from scratch and making sure it will run properly with a slightly modded bin.  So I am running a A6 Q-box with a Allroad K Bin ecu that was converted from the M/L box principle... Lots of variables :S   Looked over my K-bin def and can't spot anything wrong. Kinda stumped....

Any way you would be willing to share your modded Kbin for HEX comparison? (Stock one runs ok with the ESP off).

How were you able to read the module? through the K-Bus or reading the chip directly?

There is a ton of software for BMW's that read/write raw hex. I used BMW scanner 1.4

You're going at this all wrong... you shouldn't "convert" anything from anything else.

You should solely be defining the K box correctly (like I said most of the M-box lines up pretty good).  Then you should modify only what you need for what you want to do.  Ignore/forget almost everything you've read in the community project in terms of actual changes/numbers they don't apply here or anywhere really.

The K box (possibly from being an automatic ECU) already has more than enough load request in IRL so for a basic stage 1 you don't need to change anything there.  IOP needs a little attention, and then you will need to take care of the load limiters, timing maps, fuel, etc.

Again, you're over thinking this completely.  Define the file, and look at each map you need to adjust.  If you can understand the stock maps you will certainly see that you will have to do less changes than you think.

I found that most values are shifted a tad from the M box to the K box (what I meant by "converting" ) compared K bin and M bin in hex and created new addresses based on BIN compares.  Im actually very happy  with the K bin seems like it has a tad more prep than the stock Q...  So I am not sure if I made an error somewhere along the lines as im having power cut (I coded out the rear O2 and EGT sensors based on the WIKI). Would anyone be willing to maybe share their K Definition file? wanted to compare and make sure I didn't fudge something up with my HEX addresses... Posted my DEF file on 1st page but still stuck trying to solve this ESP issue and went off into the left field.. but there might be something obvious that I messed up that is causing my problems..

If you're having ESP intervention, my only guesses would be that either your changes to the TQ model are incorrect or some of the other changes you have made were done on an incorrectly defined definition and you actually changed something else (it. you coded out EGT, but maybe you actually changed some unknown bits instead).

Start with one change at a time if you're not sure instead of lumping everything together into one file.

Well then follow the stage 1 to the T and you will see. I have no reason to lie it's in the s4 wiki. everyone that followed the stage 1 so far has had this same Limp happen to then so far and think they pop'd IC hoses or ran things over, it's funny read the wiki or maybe some tuning books. more than likely this is deviation limp. but bullshit

He was mostly referring to this, probably:

Think I might have found the source of my issues,  did a pressure test on my piping and found a tare on the driver's side wastegate hose, oh that looks like a fun project! (hope it's just a subframe pull and not an engine rip out to get at the nipple and hose) :S

Will be back once this is fixed :S

I've "Stage 1-d" more cars than you've been in, thanks. Everything you said is wrong. The "diagnosis", the "reasoning" and the "solution".

My 2 cents, for what it's worth, about EngineeriD-Zyn's expressing his ideas concerning air flow (RAM), etc..., may have been wrong, but PRJ, you made your comment a personal one, e.g., "" SMELLS LIKE BULLSHIT"".    No matter how wrong, technically,  EngineerD-Zyn may be, you didn't give him a chance to save face. You probably embarrassed him.

I'll say this, PRJ, you may have "Stage'd-1" more cars than EngineerD-Zyn has been in, which makes you a much better "Tuner" than ED-Zyn, but I am 100% positive that there are tuners, here ( DDillenger, Nyet, SnowTrooper, Turboat, etc... to name a few ) that can and do tune circles around you. It wouldn't be cool if DDillenger made Ad-Hominem remarks at you, just because you are wrong on a technical issue.
It's just demeaning and not in the spirit that this forum is based on.

Ask DDillenger, I cannot even change a damned Bosch MAF to Hitachi, without asking for help, yet DDillenger and the others have NEVER made a demeaning comment to me. They've been patient and as helpful as possible, understanding my limitations. They certainly don't treat me like the pain in the a$$ that I probably am, with my ignorant questions and comments.

I was embarrassed for EngineerD-Zyn when I say your replay to his comment.     Now, you can go ahead and attack me, or be a stand up man and apologize to ED_Zyn.

For the record, although he is crass, PRJ probably knows more about these systems than the engineers that designed them.

Regardless, I don't think any harm was meant by anyone.

Let's all have fun :P

There probably are, but none of those on your list fit the bill.

As for my comment, when someone with 10 posts tells me to read the wiki, that is the only reply he is going to get.

Everything he said was completely wrong. All the "advice" given was wrong. That is what I pointed out.
Why it is wrong you can easily read up in the documentation, not my job to spoonfeed it to you, especially since it has been discussed a million times on here.

P.S. Talk facts, not drama.

Absolutely true. I don't know nearly as much as prj. Period.

The only thing I have over him is the amount of verbiage (probably much of it wrong) that I crank out for public consumption. Everybody else has secret handshakes and valuable plastic trinkets and glass beads to trade.

Sincerely PRJ, I would never presume to have you "spoonfeed" me. I hope that you didn't take my prior post as a request for help.
Those whom help me, here ( Daz, Nyet, etc...) , know why I require more than most and know why I will never have what it takes to do anything worth a damn when it comes to tuning. If they are "spoonfeeding" me, then I owe them more thanks than I've already expressed to them.
So, in the spirit of this great forum, I'd like to thank the incredibly talented tuners, ( DDillenger, Nyet, Tony, Snowtrooper, Turboat, et al,) that have taken the time to help all of us that know so little.  Thank you for your help, patience and understanding.  I'll never be a tuner, but, because of you all, I know a lot more that the moron that stumbled into this forum a few years back.

And a special shout out to Tony, without whom this forum wouldn't exist.


       

+1 Im mostly here to play good cop!