NefMoto

What do you guys think of this:

http://www.kmd.co.kr/english/mpu300.htm

I have no idea what will/will not work... but I figure I would start with finding an emulator that works with the 29F800 chip

Found another one... German unit... comes with it's own software and is actually made for chip tuning...

http://nonstop-chiptuning.com/

Prices from what I've seen are around $1800 euro

I think that first one will work, but it will NOT be real time. you'll have to turn off the ecu, load the new image, turn on the ecu.

obviously it woudl be much faster than flashing though :)

Also, actually connecting to the ECU itself is a bit... tricky.

my setup:

(http://nyet.org/cars/images/emulator.jpg)
(http://nyet.org/cars/images/emulator1.jpg)

What is that emulator?
Can you tune in realtime whit it ?

I don`t know and it seems to be very big.

One of the best module to simulate the flash and realtime montitor the runing ECU software, is the OLS300 from EVC.
For me it is the best emulator on market.

A disadvantage is that the modul is relatively expensive, because it is only functional with WinOLS software.

http://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/ols300/default.asp?

http://support.moates.net/2008/09/17/roadrunner/ (http://support.moates.net/2008/09/17/roadrunner/)

This should work too and is cheaper.

TunerPro supports it as well.

the best one around is called ETK7.1

For 29F800 emulation, the only difference I really see between ETK7.1, OLS300 and Roadrunner are the software suites...

WinOLS can update the checksums in real time, can the others?

Is there any need to do that for ME7?
I think it can be accomplished by using MTX plugin and Roadrunner...

But if you want to tune many different ECU's professionally then OLS300 + WinOLS is a better choice.
For hobby tuning of ME7 alone it's not really worth the cost when you can accomplish the same at 5x less cost.

But whit roadrunner you have to buy 2 devices... one for 400 flash and one for 800 flash right?
can it trace maps in tunerpro?

I don't see why, considering the difference between 29F400 and 29F800 is one address pin (A18).
In 29F400 it will be low all the time, so just the first half is read.
I think so...
Not that it's very important when you can log all RAM variables.

There is one thing though - Roadrunner is made for 28F800. Our ECU's use 29F800.
The difference is in Pin 1 - VPP vs RY/BY. Would need to ask Moates if it will work properly.

I emailed them.

Should work. They sayed that others got it to run on me7 with checksum deactivated.

I can confirm the Roadrunner works. I have the ECU with the emulator on the table right now and VAG-COM connects.
For checksums some things have to be patched and ECU has to be coded into test mode.

The case has to be modified to fit the emulator board.

Also, there is a problem where you have to endian swap all binaries that you upload, because otherwise they come out wrong.
This one had me tearing my hair out, until I decided to boot mode the ECU with the emulator attached, read it out, and found the entire readout endian swapped.
Uploaded the same readout to the emulator and now boot mode readout was fine and ECU started to communicate.

Just about time. Screw flashing :)

You could also make a cable and swap data lines, that's what i did.
There's also small tool called Winendian. Mark Mansur, guy who programmed Tunerpro, made this after i reported byte swapping to Moates a few years ago.

I can make a TunerPro checksum plugin which will write out a second file to a fixed location endian swapped and have emutility monitor that.
I have asked Moates to provide a proper solution for this though. Let's see if they feel like it.

Making a cable could be done I guess, but it's 44 pin spaghetti, and I don't know where to get all the IDC connectors.

Hi all,
there are some things to consider if we compare ETK7.1 with OLS300.
The ETK is made for the OEM to make their calibrations. Therefore additional code is inside the hex file. INCA does not work with the series production hex files. To be able to measure all (!!!) values inside the Software, so all output values of the maps or all calculations, additional trigger signals are required. E.G. For this reason the amount of code (not talking about the maps and applicable values) is higher in these hex files compared to the ones on the production ECU.

In addition to this, also special hardware is required. Besides the ETK itself, also a communication box is required. There are different hardware interfaces existing. The old one is the so called MAC(2). This box was used with a Damos (file format before A2L) and hex file. By the way at that time also VS100 was the application SW instead of INCA.
Later with INCA also different hardware came out (all products from ETAS). The most popular one was the ES690 (later 590). So if the system is compared with an OLS 300, then this is no fair comparison.

The ETAS tool chain is much more than an application tool. In addition to the application you also have a measuring tool, which allows you to measure and analyse all values.
The problem of all this is: it's quite good, but it's extrem expensive.  :( And I do not know if it's possible to buy these tools on the free market.

I think for aftermarket calibration a RoadRunner or OLS300 with ME7Logger allows you to precisely calibrate every aspect of the ECU without having to wait to complete flashing.

Best thing I ever done was buy ols300.  It's amazing for learning and tuning.  In the past I used to spend a whole day setting fuel up on m3.8 and me7.5.   Now I can setup a base line fuel map with any size injector setup within 2hours and have fuel trims -/+3%

Boost control is much faster and safe using steady state dyno testing to gain duty cycle for static boost at a given rpm, then set the PIDs to speed up spooling and induce a little over boost.

I can start from scratch on a hybrid / big turbo setup and within 4 hours have a perfect fuel, load and boost setup.   In the past I could have spend 10-12 hours just to get to this stage of tune, but I am anal and like the boost control to be perfect from just ecu control.

Nick

How did you buy it and then learn?  I have always been met with resistance with any of their products because supposedly I am not a tuner in their eyes...

Brought from EVC, and self taught. Its plug and play.  Only thing to do is back up EEprom or use a spare immo off PCB.

Search youtube for some videos.

I am saying they won't sell it to me, I have tried.  I do not understand their business model.

How much did you pay?

Yes equipment here so people can see what it actually is!

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r272/rarak69/CIMG1454.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r272/rarak69/CIMG1451.jpg)

dang, that is an f'ing sweet set up.
wonder what the tricore ones look like? that would be awesome to have one of those.  :o

I have had a play with the tricore INCA setup on development 3.0D Jag and Envoke.  Awsome bit of kit.

There are several versions of ETK available. Just have alook here: http://www.etas.com/en/products/etks3.php

@K0mpresd:
what is this tricore type used for? I mean which ECU type is this?

edc/med17.

wow pretty interested by this post, i had emailed moates in the past about the roadrunner which they claimed should work, pretty excited to hear about your progress prj, please do post back how far you get, i may give it a shot, always wanted to cut down on flash time

What do you mean by how far I get?
It's working fine with ECU coded as a test unit.

sorry for the misunderstanding, that's really good news, how was the install? im really thinking of going that route soon

The install, well let's just say it does not fit into the housing because of how the emulator's connector is located.
So I had to modify one of the ECU housings to be a bit "longer"...

Other than that, you just desolder the flash chip, solder in the header they provide, and plug it in.

This ECU modified with the emulator, can it be used on different cars/configs?

Or do you have buy one emulator and modify an ECU for each type of ME7 config?

Are you saying you have a successful ME7 real-time emulator going on?

<crickets>

Fuck EVC. They're worthless

I'm not sure the moates setup is realtime for ME7 (i could be wrong). I think its just instant flashing.. prj please correct me if i have it wrong..

YES, for the goddamn millionth time :D
To spell it out - you can make changes to maps while the engine is running.


No, you are wrong. It's full real time emulation. Code the ECU as test model and off you go.

Well you have to solder down a header instead of the PSOP-44 chip.
But you can always remove it after you are done and fit the chip back. Pretty easy with some chipquik or a hot air station.

PRJ thanks for the update, could I talk you into a write up of sorts on your setup?  This is the next step for me with me7 and I would like to copy your hardware.  Moates doesn't really seem to have an ironed out system.  Better yet I will pay you to build me a setup if you want.

Ha...

I am disassembling TPMoatesEmulatorPlugin.dll right now.
I want to just hack it to swap high and low byte instead of using my own checksum plugin and EmUtility.

Once that's done I'll probably post the hacked version. Unless Mark Mansur comes out with a new TunerPro version that supports this.

Seriously though, I know you are busy like me, if you have it all figured out you should sell them, many of us will buy it.  Could be another piece of the pie for your biz.

Wait.

So your trying to tell me, you emulate the me7 ecu?

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6mojCYWZTFGV3OcwTVB1PEA_7FOus03usIoL7y3i41O-zOtOs7CRFMvOe)

LOL j/k

Great work!!!! wish i had this for med9 :(

Joe dirt LOL, I can't say or hear "dang" without imagining it in his voice.

So I got the TunerPro plugin working, basically:


Was all there was to it.

I got EmUtility monitoring the file and any time TunerPro calculates the checksum, it writes the endian-swapped file to c:\target.bin (or specified in .ini) and EmUtility does the rest.
I also coded the ECU as test model, and I have this entire setup working perfectly on the bench. The ECU ignores checksums completely.
You can modify the file as much as you want and not correct a single checksum, and it boots just fine.

I am now working on a WinLog plugin that parses ME7Logger files in real time, so I have a proper real time display and don't have to re-start ME7Logger all the time.
Will finish it in a few hours.

And tomorrow it's meth tune time on my RS4 with my real time emulated ME7.

And I got the WinLog driver working as well.

I guess I will make a writeup together with all the software at some point on how to get this running...
But for now DIY emulation of ME7 with a 500$ emulator is possible.

Very well done! This is all very interesting, I would love to get a setup like this. Me being a hobbyist, can this installation be done to run "permanent" safely?

I was thinking of getting my ECU cloned and install an emulator on it, but I use my car everyday and I keep tweaking it when I can, so it would be nice if I can just leave the emu ECU in the car if possible without damaging anything?

"Hero Member"

Pretty much sums it up ;D

Roadrunner is originally designed to be installed this way. It has a battery, which should theoretically last many years. At least mine has now for 5 years.
I would make a spare tune-ecu though. No point leaving emulator in the car for a long time, as you can just flash it if needed.

I went to the airfield today, got my meth dialed in.
I had a problem with the ECU dying at the end though randomly.
I think the problem is that the emulator slightly wobbles around and because my casing is very tight it was hitting it every now and then, shorting and turning off.
Because on an even surface I had no problems and I could let it idle all day without any issues either.

The ECU is sometimes a bit fiddly starting with the emulator. Don't know why. I found that re-flashing the entire emulator helped.

Went to the airfield again.

1. The ECU did not die randomly a single time anymore, the problem last time was definitely the board wobbling around and touching the casing, thus shorting itself to ground... I padded it with some insulation tape now.
2. The ECU will not boot up (ESP light on) when a file is loaded with an incorrect checksum.
3. The ECU will very rarely not boot up when a file with correct checksum is loaded, but simply switching off the ignition and switching it on again always fixes the issue.
4. Writing to the emulator while the engine is running is fine, even if you do not correct the checksums if the ECU is coded as a test model.
5. Using some software I wrote I have a real time WinLog dashboard going of all the important parameters.
6. Using some other software I wrote, every time the .bin is saved in tuner pro, it writes out a second byte-swapped file and EmUtility monitors it, and instantly loads the changes into the emulator/ECU.

Finally - my car is pretty quick now...
So - proper real time tuning can be achieved for about 550$ and some C++ hacking.

i think im going to buy one of those roadrunners when i get some free cash.
no need for it but that just looks pretty fun to play with.

Thats awesome. I am definitely going to look into getting one; my emulator setup no longer works because the stupid box requires a parallel port, and no laptop comes with one anymore... and usb-->parallel ports dont support the bitbanging modes that the software requires.

I've seen a claim that roadrunner works with Winols, but could it really? Could it be compatible with evc emulator?

Maybe the FujitsuSiemens Celsius H240 is an alternative for you. It's still fast and Comes with a parallel port

It works, but you have to export the file each time and obviously no tracing.

Nice. But what about "but you have to export the file each time"?
Do you compare to OLS300?
Can you edit maps online in emulator memory with ols300?
What is the difference between Tunerpro together with roadrunner and winlos together with roadrunner?

No real difference.

---

On another note, I have been driving with the emulator for a week now every day.
And no problems. Sometimes I have to turn off the ignition then turn it back on again when starting the car for the ECU to boot up, but other than that the car has worked flawlessly.