NefMoto

Technical => Tuning => Topic started by: Ken-1 on August 10, 2015, 11:36:51 PM

Title: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 10, 2015, 11:36:51 PM

Hello,

I have been trying to find a way to diable the nice ARMD feature on my -03 A4 1.8t wideband but without success. The log picture attached is not new but that is the way timing starts to behave when exceeding a certain boost pressure level, up to maybe 1.5 bar the car pulls nice but when exceeding this limit it starts to behave badly as seen in the picture below.

So, I think this is ARMD? But to check I guess I would have to try and switch it off and relog. To do this I would have to be able to locate some of the following: KFDMDARO, NARAO, NARASTG or NARLLGA. None of which I have been able to find. Can someone assist maybe? the bin is also attached.

Help would be much appreciated.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on August 10, 2015, 11:51:10 PM

Likely not ARMD.

Please post the log.

Also use rpm as x axis and learn how to use the filter.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 11, 2015, 08:02:16 AM

Hello,

Attached is a recent log with timing behaving oddly, this even resulted in knock detected in cyl 2 which is very rare on this engine, low compression and E85 fuel.

Should the timing really do this if everything is ok? Looks really bad in my eyes.

BR. Kenneth

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: adam- on August 11, 2015, 08:05:15 AM

Is that not the cam change over point? 5250?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 11, 2015, 08:14:28 AM

Quote from: adam- on August 11, 2015, 08:05:15 AM

Is that not the cam change over point? 5250?

Hello, could be. I did not have that in my log, do you remember the parameter name?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Snow Trooper on August 11, 2015, 09:20:08 AM

wnwi_w / CamshaftAngle / Istwinkel für Nockenwelle

will be that in me7logger config file

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 11, 2015, 10:30:13 AM

If the timing thing is not ARMD then could it maybe be KFMIRL and IOP related? I think the understanding of these are better now compared to a year ago?

I would like to log to rule out torque intervention, but I can only find the following symbols in ME7logger:

Code:

;mds_w            ;{}                                 ; {Motorschleppmoment}
;mdverb           ;{}                                 ; {Momentenbedarf der Nebenaggregate}
;mdverl_w         ;{EngineLossTorque}                 ; {Motor-Verlustmoment}
;miasrl_w         ;{RequestedTorqueTractionControl}   ; {Indiziertes Soll-Motormoment ASR für langsamen Eingriff}
;miasrs_w         ;{}                                 ; {Indiziertes Soll-Motormoment ASR für schnellen Eingriff}
;miext_w          ;{}                                 ; {von außen (ASR, GS, usw.) angefordertes indiziertes Motormoment}
mifa_w           ;{}                                 ; {indiziertes Motormoment Fahrerwunsch}
;mifab_w          ;{}                                 ; {Begrenztes indiziertes Fahrerwunschmoment}
;miges_w          ;{}                                 ; {Indiziertes Soll-Motormoment für Getriebeschutz}
;migs_w           ;{}                                 ; {Indiziertes Soll-Motormoment GS für schnellen Eingriff}
;miist_w          ;{}                                 ; {indiziertes Motormoment Hochdruckphase Istwert}
misol_w          ;{}                                 ; {Indiziertes resultierendes Sollmoment}
;misopl1_w        ;{}                                 ; {Solluftmoment, rückgerechnet auf Lambda=1 und zwopt}
miszul_w         ;{}                                 ; {Maximal zulässiges indiziertes Moment}

Which are needed to be able to rule out unwanted torque intervention?

Attached are the maps in question.

Comments?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 12, 2015, 08:40:41 AM

Attached is a log over 2 pulls in third gear, if it´s not ARMD causing the timing to go like that then what could it be?

Suggestions?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on August 12, 2015, 09:56:43 AM

Unfortunately, it is going to be very hard to diagnose unless you can find somebody to give you ram locations for ARMD and the torque intervention variables.

Alternately, you can try with trial and error once you know the ARMD map locations.. that one is pretty easy to code out.

Torque intervention is a bit tricker, you'll have to do a lot of reading.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 12, 2015, 11:41:50 AM

Hello,

Yes, I will try to look in Winols after KFDMDARO, that could maybe be possible to find, even for me. And relog, if anybody has a hint were to look it would of course be appreciated.

BR. Kenneth

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: ddillenger on August 13, 2015, 12:10:32 AM

DARO:

0x2899C 8x6
0x1B2B3 gear
0x28ACC %

DAROS:

0x289FC

rest is the same

:)

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on August 13, 2015, 10:31:34 AM

DD got any ram locations for the guy to log?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 13, 2015, 11:54:02 AM

Hello,

Modified KDFMDARO to 100 in the last row and relogged, did not seem to do much difference. Should DAROS also be modified?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on August 13, 2015, 11:54:54 AM

Likely this is non-ARMD torque intervention then.

Some IOP/IRL logging/tuning is in order :(

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 13, 2015, 12:35:20 PM

Yes, seems like there is some logging to be done. I tried some tonight with the result shown in the picture below, I think the timing jumping around is not so good for the engine, maybe should turn the boost down a bit before it is fixed.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 15, 2015, 01:49:45 AM

Hello,

I copied the IOP and IRL from the defined 225hp 1.8t, last row i increased on both. But still timing during third gear as attached.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on August 23, 2015, 12:02:04 PM

Hello,

What kind of approach would you recommend I take to tuning IRL and IOP to remove the timing oscillations? I tried to read up a bit regarding it and put the following maps in the software:

LDRXN requests up to ~220 in load, in IOP the axis is modified so it goes up to 260, with IRL going up to 290 in the last row. Most of the IOP and IRL is stock, this does anyhow not seem to help, still timing is oscillating. Could this be due to me getting 230 in EngineLoad even though Engine LoadRequested is 220.

Should I decrease IOP axis? Or decrease request in IRL? What could help? LDRXN is as high as I can have with the stupid 2560 limitation.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on August 23, 2015, 12:04:06 PM

Honestly, you're going to have to find the ram locations of things to log....

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on September 17, 2015, 12:48:26 PM

Hello,

Still having this issue, would it be possible to disable torque monitoring all the way? Now when I do not know how to log what is really the problem, missing some ram-locations.

I have KFMIZUOF at 99.6 %
TMNSMN seems to be -30 already in the bin I use, if it is at 0122E
TANSMN seems impossible to find, needed to disable the torque monitoring?

Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

I'm not sure it's your problem, but your IRL/IOP values seem pretty darn high to me. 260 IOP axis and 290 in IRL are pretty high. You might want to try taming these values... the IOP load axis shares it's axis with KFZWOP/2 as well, so unless you scaled all of those to match your increased axis, that might be giving you grief.

Also, what kind of MAF are you running? If your load is too high, perhaps you have you MAF scaled incorrectly?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on September 17, 2015, 01:26:51 PM

Quote from: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

Agree with both of these. That IRL seems completely insane. Without the 5120 hack, you should really never request more than about 195-200 load.

Also, if you can't find ram locations to debug torque intervention, slightly underscaling the MAF is a good idea. You won't see any side effects, you'll just have to pull back krkte a tad.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on September 17, 2015, 01:35:29 PM

Quote from: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

Hello,

Maf is standard RS4, should not be anything strange.

Ok, yes the IOP axis is a bit high, maximum load requested is ~220 but engine load is ~230. Is this deviation the reason for the timing being pulled?

KFZWOP seems to be very flat in the high load area, should not cause issues or?

So, suitable max IOP would be maybe 240?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on September 17, 2015, 01:40:41 PM

Quote from: nyet on September 17, 2015, 01:26:51 PM

....slightly underscaling the MAF is a good idea. You won't see any side effects, you'll just have to pull back krkte a tad.

Ok, will try with underscaled maf, seems like a good suggestion. The 5120 hack would of course be the correct way but I do not have nearly enough maps defined to do this. So with current poor knowledge, no thanks =)

How bad underscaling have people been able to use with good result? 10 % at high load, 20 % more?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 01:44:29 PM

you are requesting 220 and getting 230. underscale it so you are slightly under 220. about 0.9565217391304348 or so, give or take a percent. :)

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on September 17, 2015, 01:49:09 PM

Quote from: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 01:44:29 PM

you are requesting 220 and getting 230. underscale it so you are slightly under 220. about 0.9565217391304348 or so, give or take a percent. :)

Thats not percent, thats parts ;)

Ok, will make a suitable underscaling in the affected areas. is it better to gradually take down MAF readings when reaching high load and fix eventual problems with FKKVS or is the way to go to do it over the whole measurement area and adjust KRKTE?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on September 17, 2015, 01:59:18 PM

This is kinda crazy, i'd not expect to have to request 220 load to get 2500 mbar req boost. Then again, maybe i'm crazy.

Also, on an unrelated note, is it possible you are leaking air post maf, making load read artificially high?

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 02:24:26 PM

depends on what his MAF readings are. "big turbos" pump a lot of air, and there's your high load numbers.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on September 17, 2015, 02:26:41 PM

Quote from: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 02:24:26 PM

depends on what his MAF readings are. "big turbos" pump a lot of air, and there's your high load numbers.

Yea. I'm too used to 2.7t numbers as well, so maybe ignore some of the crap I'm spewing here :/

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 02:51:55 PM

Quote from: Ken-1 on September 17, 2015, 01:49:09 PM

Personally, I would underscale high load areas and account for fueling with FKKVS.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on September 17, 2015, 05:55:25 PM

Quote from: SB_GLI on September 17, 2015, 02:51:55 PM

Personally, I would underscale high load areas and account for fueling with FKKVS.

I still think something is wrong with his maf scaling as a whole... if the entire thing needs to be adjusted, then KRKTE :)

But he hasn't said (I don't think) what injectors/maf he is using..

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on September 17, 2015, 10:25:46 PM

Quote from: nyet on September 17, 2015, 05:55:25 PM

I still think something is wrong with his maf scaling as a whole... if the entire thing needs to be adjusted, then KRKTE :)

But he hasn't said (I don't think) what injectors/maf he is using..

Hello,

MAF is fully standard RS4 from a B5, not special at all.

The injectors are EV14 1000cc, fuel E85.

I´ll do some high load underscaling and try to get that to work, FKKVS can help me to get along. Load seems a bit high I would also say, but the turbocharger is a large laggy type and the engine should breathe quite well. If this underscaling fixes the timing thing I do not plan to try and find the root cause, it just needs to work so I can go and get on a dyno =)

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: Ken-1 on September 23, 2015, 11:37:09 AM

Hello again, did some logging.

Attached are three pictures.

Nr 1: Underscaled MAF flow by 15 %, still timing doing oscillations

Nr 2: TANSMN (or whatever I have at position 12241) set to -48 and TMNSMN (or whatever I have at position 12242) set to -48. This together with KFMIZUOF set to 99.6 I guess should disable torque monitoring? Or? Maybe have TANSMN TMNSMN at wrong position? Anyhow still oscillations

Nr 3: MAP underscaled a bit to get down real MAF flow, also less power of course, this was just a test, oscillations still.

I start to be out of ideas again, I though underscaling MAF would work but even though load is under requested timing is going up and down.

Title: Re: Help diabling Anti-Judder on ME7.5
Post by: nyet on September 23, 2015, 11:39:56 AM

At this point you are really going to have to find somebody to do some disassembly work for you to find the various torque intervention variable ram locations.

BTW it could still be ARMD as you originally suspected. Minimally you need to log dmar and B_ar