NefMoto

So far have spent the last 3 weeks trying to figure out as much as I can on my own. There's a few things I'm having trouble with but first a little background info...

2004 B6 A4 - got it cheap, high km, used engine, "Budget build"
eBay 50 trim,
630cc deka's,
currently using a MBC (might use the n75 one day, maybe)
.......

1. I have it set to 18 psi and want to go to 22 psi but if I go any higher than 18-19, its goes into soft limp and throws p0234. I tried zeroing out KFDLULS which I don't think is defined correctly, it just runs terrible after.

2. Antilag seems to work fine when around 85% throttle, if I hold it at 100% it just sounds like a soft limiter, no boost and lots of raw fuel smell.

3. Ive modified NMAXDVG/ NMAXGA/ NMAXDV/ NMAX/ NMAXNL to raise the rev limit but its not working.

I've attached my current file if anyone wants to take a peek and help me out here, Thank You

Don't bother doing anything until you ditch that POS.


Why would raising the rev limit fix a negative boost deviation problem?

while I agree with this advice almost all the time, using a MBC on a big turbo is less of a concern.  Yes, it's still a hack, but IMO it's okay to do while learning how to tune the PID for BT.  Ideal situation is that the N75 is used, but pros have been tuning big turbos strictly with MBCs for years.  I am not saying that because the "pros" do it, it's right.  It might just be a little easier for a tuning nooby to wrap their heads around all the other stuff first, and then go back to tuning boost.

BTW, OP.  Logs.  Help us help you.  Get Logs.

I know it's a pos but it's very hard for me right now to get adaquite time to setup and use the n75 properly when the mbc is doing a fine job with my driving habits.

Also I apologize, I should have been more clear with my question as the three are seperate, editing origanal post

I will get some logs for you guys as soon as I can!

I'll take a look at what maps you need to modify to get rid of the code/limp in a little bit when I get home. Also, wanted to add, that much psi might be too much for your setup. I found with an AWP 1.8T and a 3071, right at about 20 psi I would hit a point where the lack of timing negated the extra boost, so there was no point (pump gas). Also, I assume this has a return-style fuel system because of the BT? I'm sure there are other issues, but just wanted to throw that out there, that shooting for "more psi" isn't always a benefit. Depends a lot on a million factors.

Ya, my origanal plan was to keep the boost around 18psi thinking that 3-4 psi wasn't going to be a big enough difference to justify putting that much more strain on it, but I tried it anyways and was very pleased with the power at 22 before limp kicked In. I didn't get a long enough run to fully justify keeping it there but if there isn't a noticeable difference from 20vs22, I'll just keep it at 20.

The car currently has the factory "Returnless" system

Thanks in advance

No, it isn't doing a fine job because you are seeing negative deviation limp. The root cause cannot be solved by dorking with rpm limits.

Stop tuning until you get a proper log.

Then you'll see why you are getting negative deviation - which has everything to do with your MBC.

Except that he's throwing a negative deviation code AND not learning anything about PIDs.

I understand why I'm getting a neg. deviation code. I'm sure I can get my PID's in order on my own, there are a few threads explaining how already. If you want to spend some time and help me out to speed the process up, that would be very nice, would certainly make my wife a little bit happier that I'm not "on the laptop all the time!!!!". That's why I wanted a patch so I can have a little fun until things cool down a bit....

I suppose it will also help others in the process to do it proper, Ill get some logs posted tonight.
 

Post your file, I will look at it, fix whatever is needed, and explain why.

Something went wrong with my logs, ill have to try again in the morning, sorry.


My file is attached in the first post, thanks.

Fix KFLDBHN and tune LDRXNZK appropriately.

Got LDRXNZK adjusted roughly 15% lower than LDRXN in the spool zone, will this work?

Shall I max out KFLBHBN for now while tuning boost, and then set it after?

Here are some logs...

I think I'm requesting enrichment too soon, I'll have to change that. This is also on 91 Oct fuel because I wasn't close to a 94 Oct station when I gassed up. Hopefully 94 will take care of the timing.

please post raw logs... don't open these things up and save them again with excel... it messes up the formatting and makes the programs that parse this data so you can view it unhappy.

boost actual is way over boost requested, especially as you near redline... which is putting you in limp.

I believe that HBN is your problem.  I would never recommend this otherwise, but for your balls to the wall approach, max that whole table.

Exactly what I was saying from the start.

WOT fueling is very sloppy too.  are you sure you have you MAF correctly scaled?

Oops, ok I'll put the original files up.


Haven't touched Maf yet...

Raw files

Insane. No, he should ditch the stupid MBC and learn to tune properly. Balls to the wall is no way to learn.

I'll ditch it, would be nice to have it running proper.

regardless....  we have what we need from your logs to see the issue.  Not requesting enough load/boost and it's being limited by something other than ldrxn/iop/irl.  I looked at your tune last night and HBN has issues.  You don't have to max it, though you can to prove that your issue is indeed that table.  It's just pressure ratios by IAT and RPM.  Enter numbers that make sense. (like FF and FF :P)

For reference

Thanks I'll work on it tonight

Word of advice: don't get HBN too close to actual boost during spool or you may have PID issues. Probably best to set it around 2.3-2.5 PR everywhere...

After editing KFLDHBN, I am now staying out of limp, at least at WOT.

So, now, I would like to move on to getting boost under control with the n75. Any advice on what I should tackle first?

Trying to get the fluctuating fueling issue sorted out at wot. It is the stock maf, how would I confirm the maf is causing my issue?

I'll be checking tomorrow for any leaks after the MAF. I have the MAF mounted onto a 90 degree silicon elbow right off the turbo, I'm going to say about 10 inches away roughly, I unsure if MAF location will affect operation.

Still stock MAF in stock housing?   You are surely maxing it out if that's the case.

Ok that makes sense, I am maxing the maf. I think I have a vr6 MAF in the garage, I'll have to I'll have to take a look

if you have a vr6 housing, put your stock sensor in that and scale the MAF table.  That should give you enough overhead for now.

There is a program on these forums that will do it for you and write the changes right into your binary.  You just specify the ID of your current MAF housing and the ID of your new MAF housing and it will patch your binary.

Very interesting, thanks I'll have a look

MAF sizing is already covered in the s4wiki tuning page, which you should already have read.

Yes several times, it's a lot to take in..

But I guess doing it the easy way isn't learning. Learn the trade before you learn the tricks of the trade sort of deal...

You speak as though it's 3 years ago where one could digest that in a single sitting. It's evolved quite drastically.

Finally found the housing but I'm going to have to redo my turbo inlet pipe for the bigger maf. Going to be waiting a week or so for parts. I will update when I get it sorted out.

Hey, been a while but got around to putting the new intake on with the 3" housing.

I've just used to tool from mazer.gti to rescale the maf, I'll be writing it to the ecu tonight after work. I'll update with the results

Thanks

Oh man what a knob I am!

Forgot to checksum the file and now my Ecu is bricked, a friend of mine has a galleto 1260 but it's a clone. Any idea if it will work for boot mode?

Yes, it should.

Or...

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3088.0title=

Thanks guys, cars towed back to the shop so I'll see tommorow

Good News! Got it up and running, bad news, my maf scaling has cause some issues..

I've measured the internal diameter of my original maf housing which came out too 60mm but I wasn't able to measure the vr6 housing as it is in a really tight spot right now so I just did some searching and come up with it being 70mm, would anyone possibly confirm this for me? If I have to ill get at it and measure it myself..

anyways the car was driving like crap, low power when not in boost, bucking sometimes, rich codes, partial trim at -25%
Ive unplugged it for now until I can see whats going on, I'm sure its a scaling issue because if I remember correctly, when I had my original maf, the trims were good and my fueling wasn't so bad.

ill just throw some logs up, I'm going to have a look in the morning...

trying to comprehend what to do here, I need my fueling to match requested but I'm not sure what exactly is causing my issue. I'm reading the s4 wiki, looks like I will log ps_w vs actual boost and compare @ WOT...

Ive got 2 logs of ps_w vs boost, I also have the code descriptions -

P0103: MAF SENSOR SIGNAL TO HIGH --- According to the wiki I need to increase -KFMLDMX & MLMAX

P1127: SYSTEM TO RICH

I reset the dtcs once prior to doing the logs. If anyone has some time to help me on how MLHFM has to be fixed or even just confirm the issues I'm having, I'id appreciate it.

Edit: Also theres almost no power roughly below 3000rpm, I cant even hold 110kmh in 6th, unplug maf and its drivable again.

your rescaled MLHFM looks correct to me.

Hey there Jonamond,
I'm nowhere near being an expert with the me7 tuning. I have a car similar to yours,  i'm not working it as hard as you're pushing yours, but in the last few months I've put a number of tunes on the car, having tuned to get the most from the k03, and more recently having installed a gtx2860 eliminator, giving me some big turbo tuning experiences & learning.

I've briefly had a look at your bin... It looks to me like your partial throttle problems may still be due to your KFLDHBN table. Your mid-range output locations may be too low. Also, KRKTE, those 630cc injectors are closer to 787cc, by my method 840cc at 4bar fuel pressure. Maybe a couple of the experts will chime in on these issues...
I'd consider having a look at those two items for starters.

Thanks Matt! The main issue I'm having right now is my fueling as you can see in the attachment aswell as partial trims at -25%. I'm unsure if this is the ecu trying to compensate for an improperly calculated KRKTE, or something else. I'm going to try adjusting KRKTE and see where that puts me

Your MAF scalning is WAY off.

ps_w is very very far off actual boost - usually a sign that your MAF is scaled wrong.

so now I would have to change the values in MLHFM to follow actual boost?

You have to change MLFHM to properly measure the air ingested, bro.

Until then EVERYTHING you do is pointless, because your load is being measured wrong as well.

Im gonna have to read around, I have no idea where to begin.

Again, ps_w being that far off is a sign you've got something VERY VERY wrong with your MAF calibration, or a big intake leak.

I'm going to take the maf off and physicaly measure it and do a once over see if I can find anything

OK, I think I found what's going on here, I've had both MAFs sitting on my box for months and I was almost positive I switched the the old sensor to the 3" housing. Now looking at the old housing it doesn't look like the maf sensor has been touched. I googled the part number on the sensor itself and it comes up with 1.8t applications, no vr6....

I really hope that's it, I'll give it a go tonight.

Another rule of thumb: at idle, you should be around 15-20 load

this seems most likely, because I've used the exact values you have in MLHFM with a stock 1.8t sensor and 70mm housing quite a few times.

Car runs much better! Can't really do any decent logging right now due to snow storm but from just watching the scope on the vag, it's following requested afr much, much better. Once I get some good logs I'm going to ,if needed, dial it in a little more then try to get the n75 working

Don't bother doing any tuning other than fueling until you have all trims near zero under all non-wot conditions (cold start, warmup, warm start, idle, part throttle).

Then get wot boost looking right, then revisit fueling again.

Thanks, I'll get cleaned it up!

Did you re-scale for those injectors Jonamond?
 I used my calculation theory to adjust the scale on my KRKTE today... she's running...quite nicely :)
Using the same methods, I would call your injectors 840cc, provided your fuel filter is flowing adequately...

Is your maf element clean..?  Giving it a good rinse with maf cleaner can have a huge impact on the car's driveability & response. They're often neglected. :)

I haven't rescaled the injectors yet, i just wanted to see where they are at first. And yes, I cleaned the maf sensor before I installed it. So far it's running noticeably better! Once the roads clear up I'll get a few logs. Thanks!

A bit of an update everyone...

The china turbo bit the dust, piece of the exhaust wheel broke off. I've had it rebuilt by a local turbo rebuilder who has added an actual garrett 50 trim wheel (not the 47ish that comes with it), new exhaust wheel and switched over to a .58 a/r turbine housing.

Ive also ditched the 630cc dekas for the more desirable 550cc ev14's. At this point, my main objectives are to:

1 - Sort out my fueling (Rich at idle and fluctuation @ wot, very rich @ redline)

2 - Maf high limit codes on wot runs

3 - n75 to hold steady boost ( temp disabled with mbc to get fueling right)

Ill be looking around the forums for now and will update if I solve anything. Heres a few logs for now.

Anyone able to shed some light for me here?

From what I understand, the Maf high limit is setting because the feedback from the maf is going past 5.0volts. What happens when it passes that? The ecu doesn't read it higher than 5.0v so does it continue with that 5.0v value upwards from that. If so, wouldn't it want to run lean? In the higher rpm its going rich. Does this mean once the maf hits the 5.0v cap, it references onto another table? Or theres other issues i need to address?

thanks

What makes you think you are hitting 5v? Are you logging MAF voltage?


If the max is 5v, how would it continue past that?


None of that makes any sense.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Primary

Thanks nyet

- For some reason I thought the high limit code was because maf voltage was maxing out.

- Not that it matters now, but I'll better explain my question. In the event that the maf does hit 5v let's say half way through a WOT run, the Ecu won't be able to read anymore air flow correct? This would make the remainder of the wot run to go lean? Or would the Ecu correct it buy not relying on the maf at the point at correct it another way.

Sorry if I didn't explain it right

Likely you'll throw a MAF code and go alpha-n

But yes, if it does not, and the ECU is unaware the MAF is maxed out, it may see less air than is being ingested, and go lean. Your analysis is spot on there.

Would anyone be able to help me find

KFMLDMX and MLMAX?

I cant seem to find a xdf with it defined and I have no idea how to find it or add it on my own...

I couldn't find mlmax for the life of me sorry. I tried. It's a two value map

Thank you for the help. Unfortunately all of my experience has been with "Tuner Pro". I'm very unfamiliar with WinOLS. I tried switching the values over into tuner pro but its not working for me.

any chance of an xdf?

KFMLDMX= 28CFE
y axis= 1389A
x axis=291A4

Thanks for sharing.  :)

Based on your KP, I fixed map info above info.

I can make an xdf file later this weekend.

Thanks again guys!

I'm sorry guys this is part is still new to me.

I'm trying to lookup how to determine what all the other variables are (data size,8bit,16bit/ address steps etc.) I haven't got a clue.

This is as close as I can seem to get it

Type in search bar 032hs map pack. The first two topics have a huge xdf. Open the xdf in tuner pro. Start a new tuner pro Constance. It's an option somewhere in the top tabs. Now open your file and xdf in the second tuner pro window. Go back to the 032hs xdf and find the map you're looking for. Right click it and select the copy button. Now paste the copied map into your xdf.
Now transfer the map addresses into the new xdf we just created. Now your map should look correct if any of this made sense

I'll give it a shot thanks again

Attached is an updated XDF based on the KP KTM753 posted.  I added KFMLDMX and revised KFWDKMSN. 

Also I had a question about KFMLDMX (see pic), it looks strange in the HEX and compared to other ecu definitions (8x8 instead of 8x9).  Are we sure this is correct?

I'll check it when I get home, possibly my definition file is off?