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Title: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 13, 2015, 03:04:51 PM First of all, I'm really sorry but I don't have logs. The issue is from an old friend that lives in the other coast of the country and he doesn't know how to log.
He sent me a couple of videos from vcds live measuring blocks and I'll try my to explain it the best I can. If you don't want to post without logs it's ok. Let's begin: Golf IV AUQ He puts a 2.5" downpipe and a custom remap on it. It pulls really well until one day. Since that day it runs poorly... However, the issue is @WOT, it don't hesitates, it simply doesn't pull. Driving relaxed on the motorway or in the city it runs ok. FROM THE VIDEOS OF MEASURING BLOCKS AT WOT from 2500 to 6500rpm Lambdas: Requested around: 0.83 Actual: A couple of tenths richer Boost: Requested: 2400mbar at 3000rpm and goes down to 2000mbar at the end Actual: 0.9-0.85bar manometric (External, maybe it was the map, but no) and 1900-1850mbar (from vcds). Constant. MAF: Very low, It doesn't corresponds to boost at all. Goes slowly up until 4000rpm to 100g/s and then it rises a very little bit to the end. Timing retardation: The most important and notable issue Always delaying like 4.5-6º in all cylinders, but when it passes 4000rpm rises very much, as much as 12º!!! IAT: Low, as it doesn't eats air... below 40ºC Injection times: Low as well, a maximum of 17ms N75 DC: 95.3%... so totally closed He revised many many things. Tried with 2 mafs, new spark plugs, the coils are new from the VW campaing, 2 turbos (both the stock model), looked for boost leaks (but there aren't, just for trying, cause there wasn't any DTC) plugging and unplugging n75, n249, n112, DV, unplugging the wastegate actuator, measured both rail and pump fuel pressure which are ok, being richer than requested wouldn't make any sense for a bad pump. There are not DTCs, only those from the disconnected valves when disconnected. We're running out of ideas. A colapsing inlet pipe? (which is stock)... but those timing retardations don't make sense... I'd really apreciate your help. And again, sorry for not having proper logs mates. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: nyet on November 13, 2015, 04:24:47 PM First of all, I'm really sorry but I don't have logs. You're not above the rules. They exist for a reason. It is pointless (and usually counter productive) to guess w/o proper logs. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 13, 2015, 06:30:16 PM You're not above the rules. They exist for a reason. It is pointless (and usually counter productive) to guess w/o proper logs. But if my friend doesn't know how to log what do you suggest? sould I travel 1000km to log it myself? And why did you move the thread to noob questions if the thing is to DIAGNOSE the problem? I know I'm not above the rules, that's why I said sorry and that it was ok if nobody writes. On the other hand, I'm not pretending to bet 500000€ to the correct answer. The purpose is to get ideas of possibly failing parts to check if they are ok. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: nyet on November 13, 2015, 06:32:53 PM But if my friend doesn't know how to log what do you suggest? sould I travel 1000km to log it myself? set up a remote desktop app and set it up for him. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 13, 2015, 06:45:32 PM set up a remote desktop app and set it up for him. Yeah, sure he knows how to make exactly a wifi access point through his smartphone... While I try to explain him how to log, it will take a several days, it would really help if you guive your oppinion. It doesn't matter if you are not correct, as I said, it's only to check parts. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: IamwhoIam on November 14, 2015, 03:28:08 AM I don't get your attitude at all diegogpb. You're expecting help in diagnosing an issue but cannot provide logs, then you should keep on trying without help from the forum.
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: adam- on November 14, 2015, 03:33:14 AM Flash original file back on, see what happens.
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: ddillenger on November 14, 2015, 03:34:11 AM If the MAF is reading low, so will load. If load is reading low, timing will be overly aggressive for the conditions.
Not saying this is the case. You really should provide logs. Speculation is dumb/bordering on irresponsible. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 14, 2015, 11:04:16 AM IamwhoIam:
I understand it's not the best way. But maybe and only maybe it was a quite common problem and logs were nor very neccesary this time. As I see, it's not the case. adam-: He told me now its remapped with the stock file, I forgot to put it in the OP, sorry. Anyway the problem persists. ddillenger: I could understand that if MAF were reading well bellow reality, but the thing is that reality is low. And he tried 2 mafs... Thank you all and let's see if I can get some logs from him. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: TijnCU on November 15, 2015, 05:18:01 AM 1. Check for leaks
2. If no leaks: Pull the maf plug, do another run on stock flash. See what happens with timing and boost. It is possible that he tested 2 bad mafs. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 15, 2015, 01:49:50 PM If the MAF is reading low, so will load. If load is reading low, timing will be overly aggressive for the conditions. Not saying this is the case. You really should provide logs. Speculation is dumb/bordering on irresponsible. 1. Check for leaks 2. If no leaks: Pull the maf plug, do another run on stock flash. See what happens with timing and boost. It is possible that he tested 2 bad mafs. Maybe you guys were right... I managed to get some photos from the laptop of my friend via Whatsapp, It's the maximum I can get: MAF plugged (http://i65.tinypic.com/2mww3nk.jpg) (http://i68.tinypic.com/919gt3.jpg) MAF unplugged (http://i64.tinypic.com/11lpeyu.jpg) (http://i63.tinypic.com/302yvxw.jpg) Ps: I was wrong, that's not the stock file, that's a previous one, a soft st1 that went OK for a long time and when he put the DP he put a more aggressive one. He says that, now with the MAF unplugged it goes better and the performance is near stock Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: adam- on November 15, 2015, 03:22:06 PM It's still really rich and it's not asking for it, and it's got a boost leak. Well, judging by the fact it's asking for 2000mbar and not getting it.
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 15, 2015, 03:39:04 PM It's still really rich and it's not asking for it, and it's got a boost leak. Well, judging by the fact it's asking for 2000mbar and not getting it. Yes, if MAF were reading below reality, the result would be leaner than specified, not richer. But as I said, he made several boost leak tests by introducing compressed air to de inlet pipe and pumping around 20psi it holds pressure until 15 seconds, which I consider normal and he doesn't hear any leaks... Plus there's no any DTC saying anything about pressure drops Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: nyet on November 15, 2015, 06:07:38 PM leaves bad bvp or bad turbos
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 15, 2015, 06:29:51 PM leaves bad bvp or bad turbos I don't understand what you mean with "bvp", but as I said in te OP, he tried both 2 turbos and the blades are ok, the turbine axis rotates freerly and there's no roominess. One of them is totally ok and the other has the typical crack in the wastegate area... But is very tiny, anyway, same results with both. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: nyet on November 15, 2015, 06:58:27 PM bpv, typo. Not much left, especially w/o logs.
possibly collapsed inlet, clogged cats, etc. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 15, 2015, 07:29:47 PM bpv, typo. Not much left, especially w/o logs. possibly collapsed inlet, clogged cats, etc. Bpv haha okok Well, a collapsing inlet is one of my thougts, but can it cause timing retardations and become better without maf? Can he make proper logs with vcds or he needs me7logher? In this last case, impossible. Ps: He's got a tube instead of cat Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: nyet on November 15, 2015, 07:30:44 PM I'm not going to bother guessing anything else; it's an utter waste of time.
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 15, 2015, 08:50:54 PM What do you consider a "proper log"? What variables?
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: wannabee900 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:20 AM Tell him to visit a local shop and let them sort out the HW since he is not able to do it himself.
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: overspeed on November 16, 2015, 05:40:37 AM 1 - MAF readings are to much lower than expect
2 - Lambda is too much rich than expect 3 - Pressure is too much lower than expect All this indicating an air leak from MAF to turbo, consider verifying DV is not leaking, and all one direction valves under manifold and next TBI. But as said before without more detailing logs is hard to know... Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 16, 2015, 08:05:01 AM Half-fixed.
The back muffler was clogged. He put a sport one and now it pulls ok. Maf and boost readings are ok but lambdas keep higher than spected. Maybe the lambda sensor has suffered because of the pressure accumulated in the exhaust and its bad. If we fix it, I'll post the solution. And again, just to make it better in the future: What do you consider a good log? What variables in this case? I assume using me7logger and not vcds.. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: wannabee900 on November 16, 2015, 08:11:02 AM me7logger, log attached as text format and perhaps optional screenshot from ecuplotx
Variables/memory positions depending on what the symptoms are Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: adam- on November 16, 2015, 08:22:16 AM And the cat is now clogged because of all of this extra fuel?
Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dgpb on November 16, 2015, 08:33:54 AM And the cat is now clogged because of all of this extra fuel? No problems with the cat adam, he had a tube instead of it. Stock: Catalytic converter, resonator, muffler Tuned before: Tube, resonator, muffler Tuned now: Tube, resonator, sport muffler It seems resonator is ok, as he tired first of all by unplugguing the exhaust from the Down pipe, and results are the same as now. Title: Re: Massive timing retardation + low power Post by: dream3R on December 06, 2015, 10:12:58 PM has to be a leak
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