NefMoto

Hi i know this very much a noob question, i've learned quite alot over the last two months but the whole timing thing confuse's me

firstly i have two versions too compare one is stock BAM ignition map and the other is the stage1 tune i read from my car

is the stage one advanced or retarded?

i'm guessing working your way down to 0* is advancing

but then i read somewhere that for my setup 23* of full load advance should produce good power so what does that mean? i put 23* in the map for full load across the rev range? or work my way up to 23* at redline in full load line?

Any advice or pointers in the right direction would be appreciated.

Current SPec
BBT Hybrid k04
FMIC & 63mm pipework
550cc
DW65 Fuel Pump
3" Dp
High flow tubular manifold
Forged Rods


if any one has similar setup and doesn't mind posting kfzw map please do  ;D

The higher the number the more advance. You stage 1 appears to be retarded, which will likely be because of the higher boost I assume you're running.

0* - spark at tdc (top dead centre)
10* - well, spark 10* before tdc
-10* - spark 10* after tdc

23* would most likely be the timing close to redline at full load (I'm not sure you can get that high timing without good fuel/wmi though).

Do a log, if there's no cf's then add a degree or two of timing around the load/rpm points that there are no cf's. When you start to see cf's then stop advancing. Personally I like to see very few across a full 4th gear pull, some people like to tune advance until they see 4/5 cf's over a run.

Hope that helps.

Do you understand how ignition timing works?  Basically, you want to have as much advance as you can without knock.  If you check KFZWOP you'll find massively high values - because this is what the ECU wants to attempt to reach, but never will due to lambda, knock etc.

Basically, an liquid fuel engine is always going to be subject to knock, it has to be encountered.  Start with a relatively low range of timing values, do a pull and verify for knock (CF's).  If you have zero CF's across the whole table, up the row that you concentrated on (WOT?) by 1 or 2 degrees.  Do another pull, do you have CF's?  If no, up timing.

Keep going until you're pulling around 3-6 degrees on all cylinders and that's your timing set.  I'd recommend getting a tuning book, as this is basic engine tuning and applicable to any FI engine.

3-6 CF is IMO too advanced. Just loosing the Power.
I like to have max 3CF on some of cyl and with raised IATS. That way you are sure no problems at high speed run.

That is too much of a generalization. 6 degrees is 2 single knock events. If you have 2 knock events on one cylinder, but none on the rest, there is no need to retard timing. Additionally, you can reduce how much timing is retarded due to perceived knock. 3 degrees is aggressive.


The ecu will never attempt to reach KFZWOP. This is just the ignition angle that would produce optimum torque at lambda=1. The ignition angle is compared to these numbers to determine the current percentage of optimal being generated.

Hi Guys thankyou  for the replies  :)

well yea my stage one was confusing me but now it makes more sense. I do have a good understanding of how the ignition timing works i just got confused with the commercial map as i expected it to be advanced rather than retarded. And yes the KFZWOP is alot higher, i've read i should only need to change the axis on this map and none of the values inside?

What i've done is got my 550's dialed in to 5% stft , adjusted fuel request and adjusted LDXRN. and so far just ran the original timing map i did a log last night and got the odd 3 CF and once a 6.8 but not across all 4 cylinders and i think i know what that was.... i hadn't adjusted the Axis to match the increased load.

This is about the 4th time i've started again lol but i'm understanding alot more about what each map changes, i did start off by cheating and copying alot of stuff out of the stage one into my spare ecu and now i'm trying to it one by one well kind of... and not copying but making the changes myself, so i can test, log and feel the difference. Obviously i know the stage one is safe on my car as it was mapped when my car was standard and now i guess i have stage2+ hardware so since i matched the stage one on my spare ECU i'm now trying to get more power from my setup.

I know i still have a long way to go but i'm happy with trial and error  ;D

Thanks again guys much appreciated

Mark.

So in your opinion If you log a car in 3th gear and have 6CF on 2 of 6 cyl ie. Usually this is followed by CF on other cylinders as well, less in this case.  You think this is not a problem in 5th or 6th gear?

In my opinion, in a proper calibration that takes rising IAT's into account, it is not a problem given stock knock sensitivity.

I think that neutering timing in areas more commonly used in order to make it "ideal" during very narrow windows is overly cautious.

People often forget bumping angle at low load can help a lot too