NefMoto

Hey NefMoto team. Just need to thank DDillinger, turb and all you other tweaksters for the help turning my 90 Corrado with Bosch 7.5 engine management into the fastest car I've ever owned, let alone rebuilt. ;D

I just picked up the above 2000 Audi with the ATW 1.8T in her. Want to access the ecu and eliminate SAI initially, and possibly go down the road of an ecu and O2 sensor upgrade to get it more modern and 'tunable'.

So, any tips on reading and writing this gen 1 Bosch system, and any proven program mod links would be gratefully appreciated.

I have become a fan of these forced aspiration 1.8's, especially when they are tuned to their potential.

Thanks all from the Great White north.
Mike

This ecu is very simple. Read/write with nefmoto, and is very forgiving. It should be 4B0906018P for manual trans, Q for auto. The common software versions share a definition. Read the file, do some quick searching and you'll find some kps and csvs for it!

I was just reading the FAQ to see if I could read it.
Awesome that there is some stuff out there for it. This is 'supposed' to be my winter sedate cruiser. But a little enhancement can never hurt is my thinking. ;)
Thanks for the reply sir!

Found the kp files thanks DD. Got my BIN safely as well.
 I'm a little rusty in this stuff. Opened my bin in tunerpro successfully, but now I'm not sure what I do with the kp files. Got some more wiki refreshing to do...

.kp belongs to WinOLS.  .xdf is for TunerPro. :)

Thanks for the reply. Are KP and XDF's interchangeable? I mean can I read kp's from within tunerpro?
I downloaded winols and was able to open my original bin. Then it looked for potential maps etc. Seems to have some differences highlighted, but I have not used winols before, just TP.
Last night I was able to open my bin in tuner pro and the xdf from my 7.5 upgrade seems to have been able to recognize the 7.1 version. I was able to get change:
CDSLS to 0 and CWKONABG to 1 (not 0) and resave. So it looks like I have stripped out the SAI fault my car keeps showing. Ran a checksum checker and it seems no change. I am hopefull.
Next, to be able to get launch control and some more boost by updating my bin with the new maps others have defined will be cool, if I can figure it out.
Thanks again.

No.

Thanks Nyet.

WinOLS seems to be a great tool for those that do this work often. I'm not going to be that guy however. Map, definition and importing within winols seems a bit beyond my skill set so I don't see me being able to safely enhance this file anytime soon. Maybe in the spring.

So using tunerpro and loading the XDF pack I used on my 2002 AWW build, that xdf is 032DLGH, I seem to be able to open and view my audi ATW bin.

First and primary goal being SAI deletion from OBD2 check.

I was able to see a value in CDSLS, and reset it to 0, I was also able to set CWKONABG to 1 from it's default of 175.00. Resaved the bin under a different file name, ran checksum check and shows no change so I think I am good to flash and see.

I went to your homepage looking at your own bin's Nyet and didn't see a 4B0906018P bin in your database or I would have pulled it for comparison and learning.

Thanks again NEFMOTO team, for the support and helpful guidance..
Great site with great members.
 ;)

Very rarely do two files share a definition. You cannot trust the data being shown with the AWW definition, because you are not using THAT FILE. You should do some reading. Everything here has been covered 100x before man.

This being a 15 year old system, that does not surprise me, and I apologize for asking what are obvious questions to senior members. This is the noob section however, so I thought I was in the right section to justify my naivety as it pertains to setting the playing field to safely read and then adjust my ecu parameters accordingly.
I appreciate the tip on the definitions, that saved me a blunder as I did not know that if the definition file was wrong it would spit out any data at all. I presumed it would error out at start up. I have read the wiki(s), both a year ago when doing my Corrado, and again currently as I learn an older system. That part I missed.
I have also ran searches and read up on my current dilemma prior to posting at all.

So I have my original file safely pulled, but have found no xdf definitions specific to the  4B0906018P. If this is a common file and shares definitions as Dillenger indicates. To me that means any 4B0906018 files xdf should work with tunerpro. Haven't gone down that search path yet because I did find this thread with an updated kp file already defined. So this only works with winols I now understand, thanks for that, so I have downloaded the demo version currently available.
Winols is completely different than tunerpro and will take some time to understand how to use. I am OK with putting in said time, as in the end I will be able to apply that knowledge across multiple cars.
That being said, I would rather use TP as it's the one I know and it will allow what I want to do to get done.
If someone can confirm that my thinking on the common definitions is right, or provide a link to an appropriate xdf, I think I can get the rest done myself.
Again, thanks for the help. I couldn't have done the work last year without this forum, and the same remains true again this winter.
The whole reason to post our questions in forums is to aid in the education of others in similar circumstances. It is possible, to me, that by posting my own questions, and solutions, others may benefit from the experience as recorded.
Thanks again.
Mike  ;D

This is not what I said at all. To be 100 percent clear:

The xdf is specific to the EXACT file it was created for to ensure accuracy. This means that NOT ONLY must the file be the same VAG number, 4B0906018P, but also the same BOSCH software number 0261206537 1037352750 to ensure accuracy. This is not ALWAYS the case, but until you learn to be able to discern good data from bad, you should consider it gospel.

I have attached a csv map list containing all of the codewords necessary for SAI and CAT. You can use it to start an XDF for this file. That is after all where xdf's came from. People made them for personal use, and then shared them. The next generation adds, and shares. Or at least, should if following in the spirit of the site.

Thanks for the file DD. I appreciate your help.

Between emptying the garage today to make room for my cherished Corrado, I was able to open my original bin in winols. I was also able to import the stg 1 map pack from this thread so it shows up in the left column under the 'my maps' directory in winols, under but not in said directory.
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4603.msg45551#msg45551 (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4603.msg45551#msg45551)
Not sure yet how to do it but I presume the new map has the mods mapped out in it already? Now it's a matter of cloning my original bin's map to mirror the ones in the imported pack, Then resave updated bin as new project, run checksum checker/error corrector plug in, of some kind, and then reflash to the audi?
From there I can actually run a logger and see how the Audi likes the file. And perform car specific amendments from there.

Well, it would seem that the winols demo does not allow for exporting of projects.
I was able to import the map packs with all the newly highighted descriptors and maps into my project bin, which I renamed to keep separate from the original file. But to convert it back to a bin file, or even run checksum checker requires a licensed copy. Or so it seems.
So I left that and turned to tunerpro to try to import the csv file graciously provided above to attempt to construct my own xdf. Maybe my old XP pc can't keep up anymore. Every time I try to import delineated file (CSV), my program crashes..
Going to attempt again later on my work PC which is a more modern computer.
Going to revist the nefmoto flash mem layout I used when I pulled the bin from the car as well.
It may have been set still to the previous flash on the Corrado so my original may not have been a good pull to start with.
Damn this stuff is as intuitive as Latin.
;)

Attached is my first attempt at creating an xdf file. It seems to show values. I have attached my original bin this works with. If someone could take a look, I am not sure if 1x1 means 8bit when creating the definitions.
Really appreciate the help. Learning this stuff, at my age, is a stretch of the brain pan. If this all works, I will be looking to tweak up the performance curves as well. I just know it..
Will be going back and filling in more accurate descriptions later as well,
I have a spare IC from a 911 I never used for my Corrado. May end up wanting to put it on the Audi in the spring..
Cheers.

Updated my xdf some more. Cleaned up the descriptions and added some I read about in the S4 wiki.

Now you're getting it. LMK if you need anything specific.

Good stuff,

'It's easy to be the best when you actively discourage those below you'

Thanks for the help. Made starting possible.
Regarding the SAI deletes, when I try to change CDSLS to 0 from 1 and then save, it immediately closes the scaler window, when I reopen, it's back to 1 again.
I know I will have some questions about tables and how to import data from winols map's, if that is the same data. No idea how to start to ramp up the maps and curves.
Lots of questions around how far I can push the stock maf and injectors before I even need to worry about my air temps. How much boost above my current 10psi I can safely develop on the K03 turbo before I should consider upgrading my pipes and IC. But that last one will be after the weather turns warm and I actually heating up my intake air.
I see some late nights ahead for me, once this starts to take shape.
Cheers and thanks again nefmoto folks.
:tu
 

A lot of questions.

Turbo:  Compressor map helps, but season'd members might help.
WinOLS change the figures and watch the curve change in 3d mode.   You can also drag in 3D

You have to set the project size in the XDF menu. I forget where it is, but without that, it won't commit changes to the binary.

Setting the bin file size, from the edit XDF header pop up, to 512 did the trick. Thanks DD.
So now I have edited out the SAI codes I believe. Now I can run checksum corrector on the bin and in theory I am good to go. No more CEL..

Parallel to this work I was able, with help, to get an unlocked version of winols going. So I am hoping I can take my original bin, and apply the map packs developed by members here to it. Then resave and export it back to tunerpro to work with on the car.
The map packs in question seem to have all the map values already developed, which cuts my own leg work significantly.
In winols, when you 'import map packs' it seems to put all the maps and definitions in your left window under your hex dump. Does it overwrite your own bin automatically at the correct addresses, or is that an additional step?
Then I presume you save the project as a BIN once more? That can then be used by tunerpro with the XDF I am developing currently?
Thanks guys.

This needs to be stickied somewhere... it is really easy to overlook.

But where? Very few people create xdfs from scratch. Most edit the pre-existing ones from what I've seen.

I think the best way to think of a map pack is to imagine it as a contents page for a novel.  Say you write a novel about WW1.  100 pages, 10 chapters.  You have your contents page for your novel.  You can look up a page with it. Cool, huh?

I write a novel, 100 pages.  I use your contents page.  Although the book is the same length, I've written a novel about WW2 and yours is about WW1.  It doesn't match up, does it?

You import your .bin into WinOLS and you import a suitable map pack that matches this bin.  All WinOLS is doing is using the map pack as a reference for data.  It doesn't know if the data (contents and axis) are correct; they're based on what the user told it.  It doesn't overwrite it, change the map, etc.  It literally just looks up the part in the file that the user said "that's where LAMFA is".

Now, if you have WinOLS working, why are you exporting it to TunerPro and then using that to save it?  Use WinOLS; with your map pack to create, edit and modify your maps.  It does the checksums for you (if you've bought/downloaded it, whatever (this thread isn't to discuss theft)).  With your checksum'd file, flash it.

Not sure why you're going back to TunerPro.

Thanks for the replies all.
TunerPro was what I used last year when I was able to take an existing enhanced bin for the AWW engine, and with minimum invested programing and learning time, was able to complete an engine/ecu upgrade on my Corrado. The improved air and all the tuning hit it off right out of the gate so I had to do nothing else to that program.
So this year with the Audi with older ecu and all, and no xdf's out there, but a few kp files I started looking into winols for the first time. Simultaneously DDillenger helped me to create my own xdf from almost scratch. Since all I really need, or want is the CEL light out, I think I am there now with the attached finished bin. Ran checksum correction on it already and everything!
But, if I can get more bang out of my stock 1.8T ATW with some more learning about copying maps and such within winOLS from already tested runs recorded from guys who already did it. I figure that's the way to go.
This being an older car now, I figure everything I am trying to do should have already been done and tested by someone, fine tuning to my specific car not withstanding. So now I'm learning to use OLS.
Anyway, that's the long winded reason I am between tunerpro and winols.
And great analogy and description of the maps being the contents page Adam, Thanks for that clear visual in my head.
 ;D
Cheers.

And here is my winols generated BIN checked as well. With all the maps added from the hyperlinked post mentioned on page 1 of this thread.
So if I now understand, the maps will allow me to get to the areas I want to tune, but no tuning has been done already in these maps. So aside from my SAI delete, I have not changed anything yet. Items such as boost, fuel reg, torque maps etc, all still stock in the attached file?
Thanks again.

Another noob question, how do I determine my mem layout for this ecu?
Opened up the flashing tool and the xml field was empty.
Choices are ME7 29f200, 200BB
29f400, 400BB, and 29f800,800BB, and 800BT.
Thanks.
I did try 29F400BB as indicated in another thread. Just didn't work, so i'm double checking.

Mike

It's a sticky. In this very section.

Literally the first post.

400BB. If it fails to verify, continue anyway.

Was the invalid error that threw me thanks.
So, flash done, car still runs, yeah..
Will see if the P0411 code is gone for good but it was the bin I revamped in ols so gives me some hope I can go to the next step.
The tweaks I want to do to my car, boost etc as far as I can go on a stock maf/injector set up, can I use the data from my wideband AWW bin as starting points or no? Too different?

If anyone has any old reference tables and such, I would be most appreciative. Rereading the S4 wiki as it seems to cover what I want to do, but seemingly in the next model ecu as well.
Cheers.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6695.30 (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6695.30)
Found a stg 1 nefmoto xml map created last year in the community project thread above. Imported it into the one I am creating for my current build.
Not sure if it's for 7.1 or 7.5. Long thread, but seems to be in line with what I am trying to get to, a stg 1 for stock set up around 14 psi boost.
Any leads if I am going down the wrong path, appreciated greatly. I know this is an old build, and an old ecu now, but I would like to upgrade my own tuning skills on this one so I can apply it to future cars. I was fortunate that I was able to get a BIN that was virtually tailor made for my AWW last year from friends on this and the Corrado forum.
Building my own xdf is a good exercise, if I can acquire the competency to actually work with the data.
Car cruised well on the way to work today. If no codes by the home trip I think the SAI is defeated..
Yeah!

I'm not trying to be patronising at all here, it's just the way I come across some times.  I just want to make sure we're all on the same page here about how XDF's and defining files work; it might just be the way you worded it.

When you load your bin into whatever editor, be it TunerPro or WinOLS, you need to load in a suitable XDF or .kp to allow the software to understand what data is stored within that file.

Now, the file that you've put into the software is the original bin from your car; which is fantastic.  You cannot load in any other bin from any other car, because it does not match.  You need to stick with your bin, and your own XDF, which will need padded out due to not one existing.  Personally, I'd forget TunerPro and stick with WinOLS because it helps with defining maps not in your current mappack.  With the "Connect Windows" button, you can find patterns between binaries to help you further define your file.

So, say your file is a 1.8t ME7.5 file.  Load in a fully defined 1.8t ME7.5 file alongside it to allow for the connect windows option to work properly.  Now line the windows up (you'll need an offset, which is why using connect windows is good, because it allows you to see patterns between the windows).  Do it until your file lines up with the defined file.  You can now use WinOLS to transfer the map details across to your file.

At this stage, your mappack has a new map.  Your file has NOT been changed.  The software just understands what is now stored in that location. 

If you're comparing files, you must use similar ones, for obvious reasons.

The Stage 1 threads are good to give an understanding, but don't use the files within them if they're not suitable for your car.  The map names are usually consistent though.  Furthermore, use the Wiki, and have an A4 notepad beside you at all times for note taking; you'll need it a lot. 

The way you worded your original sentence (Found a stg 1 nefmoto xml map created last year in the community project thread above. Imported it into the one I am creating for my current build." makes it look like you've imported a 2.7 xml into your 1.8t file.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way it reads.  If that is what you've done, it WILL NOT WORK.  You need to suit XML's to their suitable files.  That, and the is peculiar to a specific bin (hence my offset things.  Although there is 10+ versions of 1.8t files, the data stored within are all at different locations.  You can't use one XML for one file on another.  They must match.

Probably too wordy, I just won't want you changing data where the XML points to the wrong address, that's all.

Thanks for the reply Adam.
Not too wordy or patronizing at all.
I have created a diff bin and xdf for the stuff I found on here to run comparisons on, not to write to my own bin.
Starting from scratch, without any real examples of post upgraded maps or def files for this older unit has me a little overwhelmed as to where to actually start.
Got my CEL cleared, so that was the immediate concern that got me even looking at the ecu on this car. Everything from this point is just an upgrade.
Would be nice to build from an established upgraded stg 1 compatible file, but none seem to exist, that I could find.
Still searching, even while I continue to learn with the help from folks on here.
Thanks again for the reply(s).

Awesome man, that clears that up.  Basically, read the Stage 1 files and understand the changes.  Stage 1 shouldn't take you more than a few hours to understand and edit. Only a few maps.

Personally, I found understanding ESKONF the hardest as a noob, maps are easy because its got units and axis.  Could probably get a thread up documenting what you're doing with your file and logs as you go.  It'll help you understand, and people are always good at helping you too (read: nyet, DD etc).

ESKONF is easy.

FF=11 11 11 11= OFF OFF OFF OFF
00=00 00 00 00=ON ON ON ON

There are 4 components contained within each byte.

It is when you're not snowed under with every other map under the sun.  It fried my head at the start, but so did a lot of things.  Lots of notes helped.  The Wiki sucked back then too. :p

Couple of screen shots from the drive home!
A success on the primary goal.

So, I am not finding maps that look similar to the ones I can, or should be modifying in the attached bin I used for my Corrado project last year, newer ecu. No maps for that build as it was all from within tunerpro that I worked last year.
What I'm trying to do is use the best of the Rado mapping as a starting point for the Audi, if possible.
If I can get some help highlighting what I can/should use, or not, to get the Audi up to 16/18 psi Boost, balanced, I can do the work, I think, or at least want to. All the maps seem there in OLS now, NMAX currently 6600, KFLF, currently 1.001, KFMIOP currently 91.006@4000rpm@160%load, etc.
I just don't know what to start with or what areas to tweak. I'm all about DIY, but to me it would still just be guessing at the start and that's no way to learn. The S4 wiki is not intuitive and I am not new to learning from technical text.
Thanks.

If you just want a stage 1 tune, follow the community thread. You haven't really said what your goals are other than SAI elimination, and possibly more boost?

Pretty much everything you need to know is in that thread, and every map that is modified in that thread is explained in the s4 wiki.

Kind of unclear what more you are looking for.

Appreciate the reply Nyet. I was under the impression that the community threads, being different ecu's and files would be non-applicable to me. I will take a look through the 1.8T thread in it's entirety.

Really, without changing my MAF housing, injectors or fuel delivery system at this point, I am focusing on boost, torque and timing.
Seems I should be focusing on 4 maps as per what I've read, but I am finding a boatload more than 4 in my BIN while scrolling through.. Not sure if I need to dive in to ESKONF or not at this point either.

To give some background, I am an Aircraft Engineer/Industrial Millwright by trade and have intimate knowledge of combustion engine design and applications, but nothing in the programming or Bosch world of ecu management. I know what a well tuned engine 'feels' like, and can maintain it as such, but damned if I know how to get there,,,yet.
Thanks again gentlemen.

There is slightly more than 4, but it's close to that number.  Look through that thread and focus on what they've changed.  The map names will be the same.  Yes, you're right, there's loads of maps in your file - but they're currently undefined, because the software (WinOLS) doesn't know where they are.  You've gotta tell it.

Define some maps and upload screenshots, or the .kp for verification to make sure you're doing it right.  Then get ME7Logger working, get some logs with some changes.  Rinse and repeat.

Perusing the community thread and pulling the data out of the tables within that stg 1 file I have made a text file as attached.
If I am starting to 'get' it I need to input the data from this text file into my audi bin at the Audi bin's addresses as indicated? I have already added the map definitions from the attached kp file into OLS for my 018P ecu.
The 1.8t community build thread is an interesting read. thelastleroy seems to have walked a few miles in the shoes I'm trying to wear currently.
Thanks again gents.

So, you pulled the addressed from the Community thread and put them into your file?  Did you read any of my posts?

 800.0   26.8752 16.4237  0.1149  0.0000 12.2891 16.4237
     0.0    0.1149  0.0000 26.7603 16.4237  0.1149  0.0000
   200.0   26.4158 16.4237  0.1149  0.0000 11.8297 16.4237
    40.0    0.1149  0.0000 26.3009 16.4237  0.1149  0.0000
  1760.0   10.7960 16.4237  0.1149  0.0000 25.6118 16.4237

Does that first column make sense?  My whole thing about the contents page still stands.

There are north of 5000 maps in ME7 ;)

I have spent some time this am copying all the identified maps in my bin from within OLS to the attached text file.
The thread in the community was created within tunerpro and uses XDF descriptors. As such I am not seeing like for like so am unclear on which are the correct maps to pull the data from. The ones identified as being the tuned maps are up at the top of the attached file.
Any help in clarifying which are which, as in which ones are the ones to remap,, much appreciated.
This is only complicated, until it isn't I suppose, but man, it is right now.

Mike

You can't copy them blindly. Their locations are different.

I am blind yes, and do not want to copy blindly, hence my efforts to phrase my questions, with examples of what I am looking at, such that I can both show my desire to do myself, but also to solicit help to guide me down the right paths from those thay have gone before.

I understand and appreciate that. However what you're doing is asking us to summarize the last 4 years of the site for you. Spend a bit of time reading around in the noob section. I think you'll find your answers there.

You need a plan and seem to be flapping a bit.

Start by learning WinoLS/Tuner Pro

WinOLS is very good at YOU defining an unknown file if you have a similar map pack available.
Read S4 wiki
Read S4 Wiki
Have the RS4 docs to hand
Read ECU and EEPROM (backup)

Start with a small change like max rpm and move onwards.
Read about turbo'd engines, etc


My 2p