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Title: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 30, 2015, 11:21:02 AM Maybe you guys can give me some insight on this. I hope this is posted in the right place.
I've been dealing with some issues with my 1.8t for a while now and cannot figure out what the F*** is going on. At part throttle in pretty much any gear (less severe feeling in 4th and 5th but still present on the boost gauge) the boost tends to drop suddenly right around 0" Hg 0 psi down to 5-10" hg and then pops back up, all without any influence from me on the accelerator pedal. I took a look at all the blocks related to MAF and pre cat O2 (002, 030,032,033 and 034) and they all checked out. Idle trim is rich (-.4%) and multiplicative is also rich (-1.6%) but not out of spec by a long shot. Pre cat O2 binary is as it should be: 011-111 fluctuating. Heater works. Maf is 3.82 g/s at idle so in spec. O2 sensor control is a bit low (-1.6%-4% fluctuating) and returns to -1.6% as a general baseline O2 passed aging test with a 1.32 (original with 180,000 miles, not bad!) What else should i test to figure out where this is coming from? and what is happening? Am I missing something? Also, upon deceleration, every time on deceleration, the revs hit idle (aprox 800) and then bounce up to about 1200 and then return to 800. What the hell is with this? List of things: -No rear O2, catalyst is gone, straight pipe. Tuned out O2 properly, plus issue was present long before catalyst got removed. -Recently replaced fuel pump -Recently replaced ignition coil harness -MAF is non OEM aftermarket -Cone filter, silicone TIP -2.0TFSI solenoid diverter valve, tested and working properly. Problem was present long before installation of DV -VTA CCV, no PCV system anymore. Problem was present before this. -Full ss 2.25 magnaflow catback, doubt this has any influence. -No SAI, no evap. problem existed before this -AWP engine code but converted to bolt down coil packs. -Junkyard hitachi coil packs, still good though, i've felt coil packs go bad, this doesn't feel like that. Can they gradually go bad? -WOT and boost on full is fine. If anything, I over boost at 14 psi on gauge sometimes (stock tune with fueling and boost, just emissions changed) -CLALSH, CLAHSHE, CLAHSH, CDHSH, CDHSHE, CDLASH, CDLSH, CDLDP, CDTES, CWDLSAHK, SRYLS, CDKAT,MSLUB, GWPLDU, SVDLDUVS, KFNWSE changed -Long ago, when engine was stock, problem still existed, minus rpm float, that began recently, not marked by any mod or pattern that I can discern. I also have two codes for random multiple cylinder misfires and cylinder 2 misfire but that has changed before in the past to cylinder 1, 3 and 4 based on how/when I clear codes. Help me out guys!! I'm stumped!! Trying to save a bit of cash before I go whole hog and just replace the MAF, O2, injectors, coil packs, FPR, MAP and plugs with new oem. edit: log for reference Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: aef on December 30, 2015, 11:45:46 AM What does "HG" stand for in your world?
Why no me7logs? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on December 30, 2015, 11:52:22 AM VWVortex cross post. It's more appropriate here to yell at you for no logs. ME7Logger logs or bust.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 30, 2015, 11:58:47 AM Inches of mercury. Sorry perhaps abbreviation was wrong. hg HG Hg hG, not sure. Measurement of vacuum. Gauge transfers from vacuum to pressure in scale instead of going from negative psi to positive.
I will get a log in a minute. Charging my computer. Figured logs would be more informative. I have been having a huge bitch of a time getting ME7Logger to work fluidly so a while ago I put it aside for a bit. I'll pick it up again soon to see if I can get it working. I tried taking a part throttle log with it a while ago and It just refused to initialize and start logging. I can log with VAG-Com though in the meantime. I'm not too adept at logging and interpreting yet. Aside from the blocks I've mentioned, what else do you recommend I log? Also, yes, I realize this is a cross post :P I'm pretty desperate. spent a LOT of money on this issue so far and its been here for about 50-60,000 miles… Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 30, 2015, 12:57:57 PM I know this isnt the place for this but can I at least get this application working so I can take some damn logs? What is going on here?
VCDS cable in dumb mode. Blue KKl cable Vag tacho cable Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on December 30, 2015, 01:22:21 PM seems like FTDI drivers are not installed.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 30, 2015, 01:40:11 PM Ok. Ill try again. Ive installed them multiple times for multiple cables
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 30, 2015, 02:56:20 PM Ok good news, I got the blue kkl cable to work. FTDI drivers were there just had to switch from usb to com3 and to 125000 baud to avoid another error but I finally have a log.
By the way SB_GLI, your VisualME7logger is a thing of beauty. I've been waiting for a logging utility with recording and live logging capabilities. And I noticed EEPROM utilities?? Gotta check that out. Bravo, bravo. I did some part throttle driving in the beginning up to 4th gear, then did WOT in 2nd to redline, then did some more part-throttle driving. I haven't had some time to acquaint myself with the livelogger yet but I put airflow up on the graph as I drove. Note: CSV is 2Mb so I had to zip it to upload. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: adam- on December 30, 2015, 04:04:06 PM What is your IRL and IOP?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 30, 2015, 05:47:31 PM Broad and smooth, I've changed nothing in those categories. Sorry, not so helpful, i still dont know too much regarding irl/iop
Tune is stock other than emissions changes. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: adam- on December 31, 2015, 05:08:21 AM Does it do it on a stock file?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 31, 2015, 08:26:18 AM Not sure. I'll flash and check
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on December 31, 2015, 09:12:19 AM Fueling request is shit. Too lean early, too rich late.
See attached screenshot. You need to work on BTS fueling. To keep it simple for starters, you may want to consider numbing BTS fueling by increasing TABGBTS and modifying LAMFA to control your fuel request based on drivers request. EDIT: This looks like a stock boost profile... I think you have unnaturally high calculated EGTs (perhaps due to the o2 spacer you are using) that's causing this. You would need to log the correct variables to confirm though. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on December 31, 2015, 12:59:14 PM I didnt use a spacer and rear O2 is removed.
What are the correct variables I need to log to find out about the unnaturally high egt's? The boost drop still occurs with oem bin. Could the fueling issue be because of the straight 3"-2.25" exhaust and cone filter? Perhaps vvt turning on, kfnwse? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 01, 2016, 10:11:15 PM Also, wont numbing BTS increase EGT's?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: adam- on January 02, 2016, 04:32:11 AM If it does it on a stock tune I'd be inclined to say it's a hardware issue.
How can you test the stock tune with a TFSI recirc attached? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 08:58:51 AM Also, wont numbing BTS increase EGT's? No because he raising the limit bts kicks in and using lamfa (pedal request) to fuel, i,e enrichment quicker. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 09:02:58 AM I didnt use a spacer and rear O2 is removed. What are the correct variables I need to log to find out about the unnaturally high egt's? The boost drop still occurs with oem bin. Could the fueling issue be because of the straight 3"-2.25" exhaust and cone filter? Perhaps vvt turning on, kfnwse? Does this car have a EGT sensor, most of them are modeled, which will be waay off in your case, you need an EGT probe otherwise. Take NYET's advice re fuelling - it's KiSS at this stage. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 09:08:17 AM Fueling request is shit. Too lean early, too rich late. See attached screenshot. You need to work on BTS fueling. To keep it simple for starters, you may want to consider numbing BTS fueling by increasing TABGBTS and modifying LAMFA to control your fuel request based on drivers request. EDIT: This looks like a stock boost profile... I think you have unnaturally high calculated EGTs (perhaps due to the o2 spacer you are using) that's causing this. You would need to log the correct variables to confirm though. waaa it looks like knock central when it spools jesus Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 09:28:41 AM guessing LDRPID needs work too.
I am mad are your injectors like maxed @ 6kish? lamlim will limit the lamba to 0.75 on most stock files, looks like ATR is going nuts, try turning i off CWATR (careful) and see what the fuelling looking like then at he top end after doing BTS to something sensible. re vac the throttle plate openng/closing might do that catch it on a log What BHP is it supposed to be 700kg/hr is not a lot lol, I was going to suggest an oEM maf injector orings ok? Hope the head isn't toast.... IMO, read the wiki and start from a stock file, you don't have kfzw defined WOP yo don't need. I'd also change the axis in the TCV map as it's interpolating. Personally I'd switch to BTS once lamfa fixed but a lot of peeps just use lamfa. Nightmare tune tbh mate. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 02, 2016, 10:28:29 AM Whew, that's a lot of stuff I don't understand. First, hardware:\
Injector O-Rings are new-ish. Did em about 20,000 miles ago. I could try OEM MAf, that was my next idea, What specs can show that a MAF is going bad other than what I have done already? EGT's are modeled. Is there any way to give the ECU information to utilize in this regard? Did any 1.8t's come with EGT sensors? I figure if I find something to use, it's not going to be as simple as plug and play. Keep in mind, this motor has 180,000 miles on it so it is a bit worn. Im working on rebuilding a new AWP and loading it in. Aside from this, there's very little slugding so thats good I suppose. What makes you think the head is bad? Software: I'm gonna try and look all this stuff up on s4tuning wiki anyway and possibly the FR too if I have time but i'm gonna ask anyway as I am very new to ECU tuning. Quote waaa it looks like knock central when it spools jesus What are you seeing that says knock?Quote guessing LDRPID needs work too. I am mad are your injectors like maxed @ 6kish? lamlim will limit the lamba to 0.75 on most stock files, looks like ATR is going nuts, try turning i off CWATR (careful) and see what the fuelling looking like then at he top end after doing BTS to something sensible. re vac the throttle plate openng/closing might do that catch it on a log What BHP is it supposed to be 700kg/hr is not a lot lol possibly explain this? LDRPID, ATR, CWATR? I did a bit of studying and I'm going to mess with LAMFA early on to get BTS to kick in later. I'm seeing that huge lean spot, would I enrich in the 90% column or the 97%? or both? I'm gonna mess with 90% first I think, then taper in 97% as per what they did on the AK in the stage1 project. I've read that a few times. What does KiSS stand for? Still need to read more on IOP/IRL tho…. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 02, 2016, 10:47:22 AM Also, this might be a tall order but, does anyone have a log taken of a fresh, brand new 1.8t AWP GTI unmodified for me to compare and contrast to? That might help a bit. Even if mine is modified, I can get an idea of where the motor started.
Possibly bad knock sensor? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 10:59:17 AM Whew, that's a lot of stuff I don't understand. First, hardware:\ Injector O-Rings are new-ish. Did em about 20,000 miles ago. I could try OEM MAf, that was my next idea, What specs can show that a MAF is going bad other than what I have done already? EGT's are modeled. Is there any way to give the ECU information to utilize in this regard? Did any 1.8t's come with EGT sensors? I figure if I find something to use, it's not going to be as simple as plug and play. Keep in mind, this motor has 180,000 miles on it so it is a bit worn. Im working on rebuilding a new AWP and loading it in. Aside from this, there's very little slugding so thats good I suppose. What makes you think the head is bad? Weird misfires? You check the plugs? Software: I'm gonna try and look all this stuff up on s4tuning wiki anyway and possibly the FR too if I have time but i'm gonna ask anyway as I am very new to ECU tuning. What are you seeing that says knock? possibly explain this? LDRPID, ATR, CWATR? You need to read the wiki mate, LDRPID is boost control (PID), ATR is Exhuast Gas Temp Control which is defo being triggered, CWATR is part of ATR you can use it to turn ATR of or parts of it IIRC, like I said be careful as it won't dump fuel so you're BTS needs to be solid and failsafe really I did a bit of studying and I'm going to mess with LAMFA early on to get BTS to kick in later. I'm seeing that huge lean spot, would I enrich in the 90% column or the 97%? or both? I'm gonna mess with 90% first I think, then taper in 97% as per what they did on the AK in the stage1 project. I've read that a few times. Personally I'd to the whole last two columns and enrichen each time, them say the last three cells of the previous What does KiSS stand for? KISS is what NYET referred to kinda = "keep it simple stupid!" one step at a time etc. Still need to read more on IOP/IRL tho…. I dunno what BHP this car is but the easy way is just to light up the last column axis and up it to achievable levels. Check out the netfoto tunes for ideas. EGT easy would be as be to fix the lamfa lean spot and log where you have it under control (set TAGBTS to 900) them enter the happy swich value into into TAGBTS say 500C, BTS needs a lot of work this would avoid touching the EGT maps. But iike I said a lot on here just use lamfa Are you running out of fuel? iDC seems HIGH iirc lamlim is 0.7 lambda not 0.75 like I said, see the FR for the map name. I'd honestly suggest spending a week spare time reading before touching it software wise again mate, I spent a year making a Volvo logger etc before fannying around. Last bit of advice is never touch a map unless you know when the output goes and how it affects the cars various states. There's also a delta map of BTS. You'll need to rescale KFZW to match the new higher load too. All in the wiki iirc Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 02, 2016, 12:54:50 PM Quote If it does it on a stock tune I'd be inclined to say it's a hardware issue. How can you test the stock tune with a TFSI recirc attached? Adam, my thoughts exactly. Any ideas? Im not sure how the tfsi eDV would have any issues with this but honestly, it might. I first started noticing issues when i had the pneumatic stock DV installed. I removed the n249 (mistake) and it felt like it feels now. So i put it all back on and cleared the codes and drove it for a week or so. Still felt the boost fluctuation. Perhaps, i can rig up the system again to see if thats the issue but it may just be a huge waste of time. Reading on the eDV: SVDLDUVS, GWPLDUR, GWPLDU seem to control it. Im going to log b_ldsuad, b_ldsuas, pvdks, pu, wped, wdkba, fho, rl, rlmax, rlsol, nmot and mshfm to see whats going on. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 02, 2016, 01:34:06 PM I took another WOT log 2nd gear log with some variables related to the eDV (electronic DV, controlled the n249 protocol)
Not sure how to interpret them. Modified Lamfa but I just made things worse. I don't think the "tune" is the issue as there is no tune, its all factory. So I put it back to factory. don't mind the CSV title, that was for validity. Nothing is changed in fueling, boost, load or anything performance wise other than KFNWSE and the stuff with the eDV Getting really close to just replacing MAF, O2, injectors, FPR, upgrading to TFSI coils and possibly both knock sensors? Anyone think it could be the knock sensors? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: aef on January 02, 2016, 02:16:42 PM So if you recently replaced your fuel pump like your said in first post and the file is stock and your boost is low how can your injectors be maxed?
Ebay China Pump? Leak in vacuum/boost line to the fuel pressure regulator? Fuel filter clogged? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 02, 2016, 02:55:54 PM Fuel filter is new. Fpr is new but not oem. I could check the line. Boost is not low, if anything, its high, at least at the gauge it is and in the log it seems fine also unless im misinterpretting things.
Fuel pump is the A35HV high flow pump. But that wouldnt matter unless fpr was faulty or there was a leak. I honestly dont know why the injectors are maxed. What do you mean by maxed? Injector on time? Wouldnt that be due to some interpretation? The engine demanding "all the fuel" that the injectors can provide? Bts is set ridiculously low. 300 deg c. Factory setting. It seems like the factory intended bts to come on during WOT intentionally. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: aef on January 02, 2016, 03:03:20 PM Had to google for the A35HV and its a deatchwerks knock-off. By low boost i meant its 0.6bar at redline so the pump has to supply only 3.6bar and relatively little amount of fuel because of the small stock injectors.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: ddillenger on January 02, 2016, 03:23:02 PM Also, wont numbing BTS increase EGT's? You need to go back and start with the theory before you damage something man. Seriously. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 02, 2016, 03:43:20 PM Yea. Ddlinger, im not touchig fueling electronically. I know i have a lot to learn. This thread was atarted strictly for diagnosis to fix an issue which i believe is hardware related.
Yea i knew all the info buying into the A35HV, it wasnt too expensive and it advertised better numbers than the dw65v. Could be bullshit but i went with it. Nothing seemed to change with the feel of the car when i put the fuel pump in. Unless the pump is woefully underpowered than it was advertised as or theres an issue with the fpr, is there any other reason the injectors could be maxed? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 04:31:17 PM Atr isn't helping
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 09:02:29 PM Yea. Ddlinger, im not touchig fueling electronically. I know i have a lot to learn. This thread was atarted strictly for diagnosis to fix an issue which i believe is hardware related. Yea i knew all the info buying into the A35HV, it wasnt too expensive and it advertised better numbers than the dw65v. Could be bullshit but i went with it. Nothing seemed to change with the feel of the car when i put the fuel pump in. Unless the pump is woefully underpowered than it was advertised as or theres an issue with the fpr, is there any other reason the injectors could be maxed? [ENGLISH DAZ] Test FR READ THE F**UCking noobS Section and wiki START From SCRATCH You're not listening something is gonna go boooom lamfa fucked bts is fucked kzw I wonder load needs raised you need more fuel GEn MAF Get it running on stock map an change 1 thing at a time unti you are comfortable Start logging shit and pushing timing Wide band if not already Get a map you're happy with and teak it....looks like your boost LDRPID/LDRMX you boost is oscillating Prerequisite reading post hardware noobs section in my sig, look at various tunes here and their strategies. I'm not angry, I wan't to help mate, just blinking listen to Nye and Daz especially I don't like how there's like zero knock calcs as the voltages, freaks me out, especially on spool. [/English DAZ] p.s. Me and many other are here to help, a few tuners leach but that's the price we pay. I vote vote noob section! :D Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 02, 2016, 09:42:51 PM None of that is related to my issue. Like i said, this issue was present long before i had done any hardware modifications (and subsequently, software emissions changes) to my car....did you read any of my posts...?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 02, 2016, 10:46:42 PM None of that is related to my issue. Like i said, this issue was present long before i had done any hardware modifications (and subsequently, software emissions changes) to my car....did you read any of my posts...? Yes try the ETM, I think we got overwelmed at the map mate sorry hw first Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 03, 2016, 07:57:43 PM Ok, more good news, there was definitely a leak affecting the FPR. I plumbed a T fitting into the hose that feeds the FPR and connected the boost gauge to that a long time ago. I put a new hose from the manifold to the FPR directly and attached the boost gauge also directly to the manifold so they have nothing to do with each other and the boost fluctuation disappeared. Car feels better.
As of right now, injectors are still maxed. Perhaps an injector clog? Anyone have any theories? AFR looks better. Doesn't stay as lean as late, enriching quicker as it should be. BTS is still kicking in at 4,300 aprox. Why are my EGT's so high? I still think there are hardware issues. I'm going to reset the DTC's and see if the misfires are gone too. Seriously, Any theories on maxed fuel injectors? Theres no way removal of emissions equipment and a 3" exhaust and cone filter are maxing out my injectors, that's gotta be ridiculous right? Anyone have any ides on how to feed EGT info to the ECU? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: ddillenger on January 03, 2016, 10:46:04 PM Injectors are maxed because you're requesting single digit AFR's due to ATR.
EGT's are fine. Ignition angle is fine. Raise TABGBTS to something reasonable, use some driver requested enrichment so that it's running a reasonable AFR at peak boost, and everything will look 100x better. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 04, 2016, 06:09:43 AM Yes, i understand the concept but i did not request this, this is how it came from the factory. Did the factory intend on bts to come in that damn early and intentionally, maxing out injectors??? If so, how is that being used for part protection???
Im not trying to argue what the factory has done, but if its shit right out of the box, i'd like to know. Why utilize bts for massive wot enrichment? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: adam- on January 04, 2016, 06:19:47 AM It's a different method of fuelling. Either control via pedal input (LAMFA) or BTS. It shouldn't max out stock injectors on a stock tune I wouldn't have thought though.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: prj on January 04, 2016, 07:05:31 AM It's a different method of fuelling. Either control via pedal input (LAMFA) or BTS. It shouldn't max out stock injectors on a stock tune I wouldn't have thought though. The correct way is to use both.Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: adam- on January 04, 2016, 08:10:44 AM The correct way is to use both. I shouldn't have used "either", but yes, you're correct. Initial ramp up with fuel with lamfa, and then use BTS to follow. Or lamfa to follow pedal request, then BTS for knock. Depends how you want to tune. Set TABS to a suitable level. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: ddillenger on January 04, 2016, 11:40:43 AM Yes, i understand the concept but i did not request this, this is how it came from the factory. Did the factory intend on bts to come in that damn early and intentionally, maxing out injectors??? If so, how is that being used for part protection??? Im not trying to argue what the factory has done, but if its shit right out of the box, i'd like to know. Why utilize bts for massive wot enrichment? Don't try to analyze whatever they were doing. It's not worth it. Just imagine most calibration engineers as heavy day drinkers and it makes much more sense. But seriously, emissions. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 04, 2016, 11:49:06 AM But seriously, emissions. And EPA estimated fuel economy (not real world economy)... the BTS protection is generally tuned so it doesn't trigger during EPA testing... and LAMFA fueling is disabled to make sure there is never any non-BTS enrich. To compensate (to prevent motor grenades) BTS is mega aggressive everywhere outside those testing parameters. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 04, 2016, 03:30:24 PM THANK YOU! Now i understand. Thats what i had an inkling about, that BTS was meant to come on intentionally.
Yes, heavy day drinkers indeed.... Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 13, 2016, 07:59:45 PM still having issues with a series of things, If anyone has any more ideas on what to check, let me know.
I'm going to clean out the injectors this weekend, resistance is 11.8 ohms on all injectors so I don't think that is the issue. Changed out FPR to another used one that was verified good that I had lying around. I have a spare ECU that I've been trying to get the immo adapted to my key, having issues with getting it to work. Anyone have a concise way of going about that? Im ok with immo defeat but I'd rather try and adapt first... I think there may be an ECU issue, I've been getting a: 01314-Engine Control Module 49-10- No communications- intermittent code in the instrument tab in VCDS I'm also getting a different code from Nefmoto DTC reader but I forgot to write that down before I cleared it. I'll get that tomorrow but It had something to do with the ECU I think. I'm still getting a lot of odd behavior from part throttle, cold starting and deceleration idle behavior. Anyone have any ideas? Also, I made some changes that seem to have made a good difference. Lamfa values in last column TLAFA from 1 to 0 BTS up to 649.99 from 399.99 Any idea on what to do next? Whats the correlation between the difference in throttle plate angle and pedal position? Lamfa seems not to kick in until plate angle is 100% and it builds up to 100 far after pedal position is 100. Why does it take so long? Logs to match Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 13, 2016, 08:34:38 PM Attached logs, bin, xdf and image
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on January 14, 2016, 06:46:15 AM increase tabgbts to something like 850-900 so that it's essentially disabled until egts rise higher. enrich more with lamfa. Try targeting .87-.85 lambda with those stock boost levels and take more logs.
Try to capture your part throttle issues in a log and only upload that portion of a log file so it's easier for us to help you. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 14, 2016, 12:39:36 PM Ok, I will make those changes and log before the weekend.
Here is a screen cap of what I'm speaking of. It shows the effect and what I can physically see on the pneumatic boost gauge I have. It is very physically noticeable, as if torque suddenly and violently drops off then pops back up again. As you can see, the pedal position is still and uniform but the throttle plate opens suddenly and then closes before re-leveling out. It is most noticeable in 2nd but can be felt in all gears. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 14, 2016, 01:52:26 PM Why is your rlmax_w so screwy?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 14, 2016, 02:08:40 PM ha, that's why I'm here. for input as to why my car is so screwy. That's a good question. What variables contribute to calculating specified load max?
reading the wiki as I post....bad IAT sensor? also, in ecuxplot, rlmax_W is engine load specified...? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 14, 2016, 09:31:18 PM So, I did a bit of research on similar variables and other things. I've also known about my odd boost profile for a while. This is all factory programming folks.....
Added more fuel. BTS is at 870 and comes in at 680 aprox but not until 5750 rpm. Not bad but I'mnot sure if ya'll want BTS to dissapear completely or what and how to do that. set AFR to .8413 which is a bit rich but probably safer. Maybe not BTS? maybe ATR? what next? Edit: second image is more evidence of the boost drop, although it is practically un noticeable in WOT The throttle plate closes suddenly for mysterious reasons. No physical driver input and everything drops off…What is going on? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 15, 2016, 10:25:57 PM what is your idc?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 16, 2016, 01:27:17 PM on it's way up to 100, hits 100 once BTS kicks in then proceeds to exceed 100.
edit: I raised BTS to 1050, enriched in the 94% pedal position column to .8438. WOT in 2nd and 3rd, separate logs. BTS did not move from when it was 870. Something else is involved as to why it is not moving. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 04:38:27 PM on it's way up to 100, hits 100 once BTS kicks in then proceeds to exceed 100. edit: I raised BTS to 1050, enriched in the 94% pedal position column to .8438. WOT in 2nd and 3rd, separate logs. BTS did not move from when it was 870. Something else is involved as to why it is not moving. Erm you need bigger injectors or less boost read RKTI in the WIKI to see why. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 16, 2016, 05:42:04 PM That makes no sense. I havent even raised boost. Awp 180 hp 11 psi. This isnt helpful
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 05:42:25 PM on it's way up to 100, hits 100 once BTS kicks in then proceeds to exceed 100. LOL. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 05:47:25 PM If you are hitting BTS and enriching past 100 IDC, may as well numb BTS to 11.5 and call it a day, because it won't do you any good w/o bigger injectors.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 16, 2016, 05:49:19 PM I'm sorry if this was posted somewhere in this thread before, but have you physically measured your fuel pressure at any point?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 06:08:23 PM there's a torque limiter controller in RKTI.....for obvious reasons if you like your cylinder head..
Log the vars and find out, it can be bypassed but OMG why. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 06:11:04 PM I'm sorry if this was posted somewhere in this thread before, but have you physically measured your fuel pressure at any point? idk either but good point and new filter I guess... Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 06:11:38 PM That makes no sense. I havent even raised boost. Awp 180 hp 11 psi. This isnt helpful This means something else is VERY wrong with your setup. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 06:20:13 PM This means something else is VERY wrong with your setup. Indeed. There's an undescribed map for max IDC/NMOT = limit of IDC when the controller isn't turned off (duh why), worth logging all of the vars, checking fuel pressure as above, and maybe flow test injectors.... OP keep an eye on your plugs! Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 16, 2016, 06:34:50 PM I thought about checking fuel pressure. Not sure how one would do that tbh. Plumb a gauge post fpr?
And keep an eye on my plugs? Meaning spark plugs? I checked gap recently, they were way out. .032. Should be .028-.025. Gapped them, no difference. I tell you, i replaced the fuel filter not 10,000 miles ago, unless someone poured sand in my gas tank, thats not it. Yes, indeed there is something very wrong with my setup and thats what im trying desperately to find out cuz everything fueling is stock including maps (minus changes i made to tlafa, lamfa and tabgbts) I clear codes in instruments and airbag everytime i log cuz i use me7logger and i have a mk4 and have to pull my instrument fuse every time i log. I check engine codes when i do this to monitor things. Got two new codes. One of which keeps appearing and dissapearinng once in a blue moon. 16891/P0507/001287 - Idle Control System RPM: Higher than Expected. and 16885/P0501/001281 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (G22): Implausible Signal (Keeps appearing) The odd throttle behavior in my logs makes me suspect theres something to p0507 and the cold start issues i have. Also, ive been noticing a pattern: When i flash a new bin and go out to log, i do a wot pull and when i let off the gas pedal completely (and every subsequent gear used after wot for aprox 5-10 mins of driving) the torque drops out hard, like as if im hitting a brick wall. Its a sudden jerk of deceleration that does not occur before wot. Something to do with fuel trims? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 06:45:19 PM I thought about checking fuel pressure. Not sure how one would do that tbh. Plumb a gauge post fpr? And keep an eye on my plugs? Meaning spark plugs? I checked gap recently, they were way out. .032. Should be .028-.025. Gapped them, no difference. I tell you, i replaced the fuel filter not 10,000 miles ago, unless someone poured sand in my gas tank, thats not it. Yes, indeed there is something very wrong with my setup and thats what im trying desperately to find out cuz everything fueling is stock including maps (minus changes i made to tlafa, lamfa and tabgbts) I clear codes in instruments and airbag everytime i log cuz i use me7logger and i have a mk4 and have to pull my instrument fuse every time i log. I check engine codes when i do this to monitor things. Got two new codes. One of which keeps appearing and dissapearinng once in a blue moon. 16891/P0507/001287 - Idle Control System RPM: Higher than Expected. and 16885/P0501/001281 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (G22): Implausible Signal (Keeps appearing) The odd throttle behavior in my logs makes me suspect theres something to p0507 and the cold start issues i have. Also, ive been noticing a pattern: When i flash a new bin and go out to log, i do a wot pull and when i let off the gas pedal completely (and every subsequent gear used after wot for aprox 5-10 mins of driving) the torque drops out hard, like as if im hitting a brick wall. Its a sudden jerk of deceleration that does not occur before wot. Something to do with fuel trims? The P051 might not be helping. Yes spark plugs I meant. It's RKTI I bet log the vars responsible for torque cap/reduction....It's in the wiki in English Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 16, 2016, 06:45:28 PM If you are hitting BTS and enriching past 100 IDC, may as well numb BTS to 11.5 and call it a day, because it won't do you any good w/o bigger injectors. Also, this is what im interpretting that everyone wants me to do. Im fine with that. Question is how becausr i keep numbing bts but it isnt responding. Im gonna need some elaboration. RKTI? VARS? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 06:50:25 PM Also, this is what im interpretting that everyone wants me to do. Im fine with that. Question is how becausr i keep numbing bts but it isnt responding. Changing the BTS EGT thresh isn't really completely numbing it. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 06:52:52 PM Also, this is what im interpretting that everyone wants me to do. Im fine with that. Question is how becausr i keep numbing bts but it isnt responding. Im gonna need some elaboration. RKTI? VARS? FR module RKTI is responsible for KRKTE etc. It has a torque limiter that is used in load reduction in another function. VARS = variable in RAM where the RKTI vars for torque pid reduction is stored. MITIBGR_W for example. Read and you should understand what I mean. If the injectors are big enought then maybe orings, maybe erm FP as said. Lower boost until you fix it IMO Sounds like you have several issues perhaps but fixing maxed injectors would be at the top of my list. Maybe you should go back a step and read about turbo engines and FR/wiki here. BTS forget just now. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 07:09:06 PM rkti
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 07:12:05 PM Highlighted ;D
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 07:19:02 PM I'm still wondering why he's hitting 100 DC so easily. Not that familiar with the stock 1.8t injectors... can they really not do 11psi at 11.5 AFR?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 07:21:32 PM FP or fuel getting to the rail issue, inlet manifold, idk, assuming they should be big enough imo
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 07:24:39 PM I'm still wondering why he's hitting 100 DC so easily. Not that familiar with the stock 1.8t injectors... can they really not do 11psi at 11.5 AFR? Lets get the part numbers and run the math? Edit looked quickly and @ 3 bar it looks like they are 90% stock Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 07:30:35 PM FP or fuel getting to the rail issue, inlet manifold, idk, assuming they should be big enough imo I'd think if it was that far off he'd throw a lean code... should check his ltfts. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 07:40:58 PM I'd think if it was that far off he'd throw a lean code... should check his ltfts. Good point, I can see any mention of injectors for a remap googling so H/W I'd lean to. Done it again it's late lol Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 16, 2016, 07:45:41 PM I'd think if it was that far off he'd throw a lean code... should check his ltfts. What do i graph for ltfts in ecuxplot Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 07:48:48 PM They dont move much. No point in logging.. Block 32 in VCDS
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 16, 2016, 08:13:44 PM If this car won't run right with stock hardware, and a stock ecu file, why are we changing variables in the tune? To me it clearly seems fuel pressure/delivery related.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 16, 2016, 08:15:29 PM If this car won't run right with stock hardware, and a stock ecu file, why are we changing variables in the tune? To me it clearly seems fuel pressure/delivery related. Exactly. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 16, 2016, 10:38:34 PM +99999999 if ud nullified the injector torque reduction new head at least
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 17, 2016, 12:12:00 AM I thought about checking fuel pressure. Not sure how one would do that tbh. Plumb a gauge post fpr? Disconnect the rubber line going to the feed of the rail, and put a T in that. Connect the fuel pressure gauge to that T. Cable tie the gauge to the windshield wiper and go for a drive. Have a passenger record the run with a smartphone. Make sure you get the tach in the screen as well. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 17, 2016, 02:50:23 AM Ok. Ill try and get that done tomorrow
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: catbed on January 18, 2016, 10:40:13 AM Disconnect the rubber line going to the feed of the rail, and put a T in that. Connect the fuel pressure gauge to that T. Cable tie the gauge to the windshield wiper and go for a drive. Have a passenger record the run with a smartphone. Make sure you get the tach in the screen as well. or T in an electronic sender wire it to secondary o2 if coded out. log o2 voltage Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 19, 2016, 03:39:37 PM or T in an electronic sender wire it to secondary o2 if coded out. log o2 voltage Electronic sender wire? Explain? Update: I was delayed due to not having the right fittings. Got fuel pressure data and it's all in spec. Bentley manual (specs in PSI) Fuel pressure at idle:36 aprox Fuel pressure with FPR disconnected from manifold vacuum signal: 44 aprox Fuel pressure residual after ignition is turned off (bleed down pressure): 29 minimum Fuel pressure regulator: 3 Bar (43.5113 PSI) My specs (I used two lines, one with gauge close to fuel line-in and one long line tee-d in so I can route it to the engine bay, it changed stuff but as per bentley specs, this isn't that precise): Fuel pressure at idle (close to fuel line-in): 39 Fuel pressure with FPR disconnected from manifold vacuum signal: 49 Fuel pressure residual after ignition is turned off (bleed down pressure): 29-31 Fuel pressure max at RPM WOT: 55, tapers to 51 (give or take 3 PSI due to long line into cabin, was aprox 8 ft long) so far, fuel pressure from pump exceeds FPR 3 bar pressure, so the injectors are not being starved. I ran some tests specced by the bentley manual to determine if the FPR or fuel sending unit check valve could be bad and odds are, they are not. The slightly higher fuel pressure may mean bad FPR but it's unlikely because the values are not far off. I could fuel pressure test post FPR possibly. It's cold as balls here…. I have an extra set of stock injectors getting cleaned and flow tested. When those are done, I'm going to swap them in and re log. I also have a spare throttle body I'm going to clean up and swap in. Could be related to all this possibly since I threw the P0507 code. Ross-tech lists that as a possible solution for P0507. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 19, 2016, 07:14:08 PM Primary 02 sensor been changed recently? I'm surprised to hear the fuel pressure is within spec. ???
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 19, 2016, 08:27:02 PM as you say injectors, also plugs and leaks and WG and solenoid..
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 19, 2016, 10:39:22 PM Plugs, possibly. Theyre about 50,000 miles in.
WG solenoid, about 40-35,000 miles in. Primary 02, never been replaced. Only thing suspect is primary 02 unless i got a a bad n75 wg solenoid these things should be lasting longer. Platinum plugs Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 19, 2016, 11:20:20 PM Swap some bits around off another car (hopefully).
If you had log before the issue overlaying then now may shed light. The maps themselves will show you where you're at if your logging voltage manually. Most sensos are 5v DC (expect the pwm ones solenoid for example) using the ADC converter on the ECU, straight line math basically 0-1024 e.g then inputs into ram eis converted into ME variables via maps mostly. tune a car = new plugs fwiw re solenoid if you running it at high DC it will fail quicker Sounds like you have a bad injector really, just a guess. Take the plugs out and inspect. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 19, 2016, 11:34:38 PM If this car won't run right with stock hardware, and a stock ecu file, why are we changing variables in the tune? To me it clearly seems fuel pressure/delivery related. Agreed that's why I asked IDC when I seen the graph. OP did you log RKTI vars? with the issue? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 19, 2016, 11:39:15 PM They dont move much. No point in logging.. Block 32 in VCDS In my experience a 70 mile drive is required. To get a read. I learned this whilst calibrating 630 dekas, got them near stock in the end but with an angry idle, not to be repeated calibrating them fuckers! FKKVS looks like a shelf at one axis point. Then there was clutch in issues blah, even the AC torque map needed fettled. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 20, 2016, 06:07:24 AM OP did you log RKTI vars? with the issue? I didnt. I have to read up on it, i still dont understand it. Plus, its been snowing here so wheel slip and such. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 20, 2016, 09:20:32 AM I used the search function on the wiki to try and find info on RKTI, clearly theres more behind the accronym.
I really really need information that is researchable rather than accronyms i don't know what they stand for. If i need to find something in the FR, then it needs to be in german... If its on the wiki, english.... I said i was a noob, but i cant do anything with what you're providing me... Give me something i can use, help me learn... Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: spacey3 on January 20, 2016, 09:27:01 AM I used the search function on the wiki to try and find info on RKTI, clearly theres more behind the accronym. I really really need information that is researchable rather than accronyms i don't know what they stand for. If i need to find something in the FR, then it needs to be in german... If its on the wiki, english.... I said i was a noob, but i cant do anything with what you're providing me... Give me something i can use, help me learn... Google "RKTI Nefmoto" = http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/wiki/index.php/RKTI_11.40_(Calculation_of_Injection_Time_ti_from_Relative_Fuel_Mass_rk) Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 20, 2016, 09:45:12 AM did that
found this: RKTI 11.40 Calculation of Injection Time ti from Relative Fuel Mass rk Calibrating for injector battery voltage correction, different fuel pump pressure and different injector flow rates via KRKTE, correction of errors due to pulsation in returnless fuel systems Not sure if RKTI applies since my fuel system is RETURN. Just this part maybe? "Calculation of Injection Time ti from Relative Fuel Mass rk. Calibrating for injector battery voltage correction, different fuel pump pressure and different injector flow rates via KRKTE,?" Not sure what to log. timxth_W? dtimx_w? mitibgri_w? mitibgr_w? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 01:49:26 PM I've told him to log and yes it applies on return less.
To be 100% sure ud have to disassemble it. Personally don't touch them maps man. If set to x it won't lower load and you'll melt something. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 01:51:33 PM I used the search function on the wiki to try and find info on RKTI, clearly theres more behind the accronym. I really really need information that is researchable rather than accronyms i don't know what they stand for. If i need to find something in the FR, then it needs to be in german... If its on the wiki, english.... I said i was a noob, but i cant do anything with what you're providing me... Give me something i can use, help me learn... Lower boost until you find out keep idc lower than 85% Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 20, 2016, 01:54:12 PM Lower boost until you find out keep idc lower than 85% Agreed but I'm puzzled why even 11psi ends up maxing injectors... then again, I have never tuned a 1.8t with stock injectors... is that normal? Can they not keep up with 11.5 afr at 11psi? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 02:37:43 PM Agreed but I'm puzzled why even 11psi ends up maxing injectors... then again, I have never tuned a 1.8t with stock injectors... is that normal? Can they not keep up with 11.5 afr at 11psi? I did some very quick math and it appears they're undersized for him but further looking at commercial tunes don't mention injectors so puzzling indeed. Flow test then maybe? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 20, 2016, 02:45:11 PM That would be absolutely ridiculous. 11 psi is stock on all audi and vw 1.8t 180 hp engines including tt and 20th AE, they all have the same injectors, two of my buddies have both, one a tt 180 and another 20th AE.
VW would not manufacture a car to intentionally max out original equipment. Reading the stage 1 1.8t tune thread with his AK audi 1.8t, he has the same stock psi rating of 11.5 which means probably means the same turbo and the same injectors. He did not max out his injectors until after raising his psi to 17-18. Albeit, he has a returnless fueling system but that should not matter. I dont remember comparing his IDC's before tuning and after tuning but comments in the thread support my statement, something is wrong with my engine, fueling or whatever, something is wrong. I may have the injectors in my car flow tested after I get the ones back being flow tested now, just to have a backup set. That may reveal what the issue is. Also, is lowering boost really necessary? I max out injectors at WOT 6000 rpm aprox. Everywhere else is getting 8.4 lambda AFR of fuel. Still not rich enough??!?? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 20, 2016, 02:50:16 PM Also, is lowering boost really necessary? I max out injectors at WOT 6000 rpm aprox. Everywhere else is getting 8.4 lambda AFR of fuel. Still not rich enough??!?? As long as you can keep 11.5AFR w/o maxing injectors you are fine. If you don't want BTS requesting 8.4AFR you'll have to tune the BTS maps accordingly. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 02:54:16 PM 100 dc isn't good and the car reduces load.
I just suggest get fuelling safe and find the issue. It's lowering load to meet ATR requested fuelling I think. I'd be pulling plugs and getting the injectors checked sounds like you've covered most things already. It's your car and my advice upto you buddy. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 02:56:25 PM As long as you can keep 11.5AFR w/o maxing injectors you are fine. If you don't want BTS requesting 8.4AFR you'll have to tune the BTS maps accordingly. ATR will take over bts and lower lambda until the rich limit or it becomes happy again. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 20, 2016, 03:01:49 PM no I mean LAMFA is set to level out to 8.4 lambda which is about 12.4 AFR give or take, I think. ORI values were .94 lambda (13.5 AFR) is 12.4 still too rich? BTS kicks it way down past that which I don't want but thats something to solve after I solve the fueling issue, not now.
Going WOT with a 12.4 AFR and BTS kicking it down to.....say 11.5 maybe less....I don't remember, is dangerous? Also I asked LeRoy if I have the same injectors as him. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 20, 2016, 03:05:43 PM Once again, why are we messing with the tune? This seems like the biggest waste of time band-aid approach, that pretty much everyone looks down on here (rightfully so). 7 pages for a stock car with a stock tune that's having issues. ???
Also, can someone mention what map/scalar is the trigger for ATR on a car without an actual EGT sensor? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 03:06:18 PM All I was concerned about was maxed injectors buddy.
If they're maxed and shouldn't be hw issue. It been repeated a few times. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 03:08:14 PM Once again, why are we messing with the tune? This seems like the biggest waste of time band-aid approach, that pretty much everyone looks down on here (rightfully so). 7 pages for a stock car with a stock tune that's having issues. ??? Also, can someone mention what map/scalar is the trigger for ATR on a car without an actual EGT sensor? TAGBTS or similar iirc the values can be widely different. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 20, 2016, 03:28:30 PM I tried to start a seperate thread for just tuning this car, yaknow after i solve the hardware issue and that got shut down for some reason.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 03:36:54 PM I tried to start a seperate thread for just tuning this car, yaknow after i solve the hardware issue and that got shut down for some reason. Idk why ur thread went but u need to get it running safely before tuning or you'll melt something man listen to us. Fix run for a bit then start reading then tuning imo Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 20, 2016, 03:40:06 PM TAGBTS or similar iirc the values can be widely different. Thanks, Dreamy. I thought it was something different. Pardon my frustration, I just don't see what we're learning here with this thread. I can think of many ways to tune hardware problems away. As a mechanic, I often struggle with doing it the harder way myself, when I know I can just code stuff out, or change some variable to get the intended result.. :) Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 04:09:40 PM Thanks, Dreamy. I thought it was something different. Pardon my frustration, I just don't see what we're learning here with this thread. I can think of many ways to tune hardware problems away. As a mechanic, I often struggle with doing it the harder way myself, when I know I can just code stuff out, or change some variable to get the intended result.. :) No bother you must be frustrated. I don't think this one is doable with software mate from your graph you have a fuel delivery issue. Logs the bars I highlighted, if your ecu file doesn't fine then I'll get them for you then we can be sure it's rkti. As mentioned as soon as I seen the graph pages back I was like he's running out of fuel, IDC confirmed this hypothesis, so you have a fuel delivery issue as mentioned my multiple people, start at the inlet manifold, injectors, inspect plugs and see where that gets you. . I think everyone is in agreement but you its a hw issue. Sucks but give it a go good luck. This thread is full of repeated stuff like mentioned. I'll look over the logs tomorrow as I just saw that rkti issue and didn't bother. The facts are the car is running out of fuel put your mech heads on and fix that. You can't nop this one. I can tell you how to use the rkti maps and turn them off but in doing so you'll end up running lean and fecking a head tbh. You could also try a clone ecu. Might be a fault there. Just popped into my head that. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 20, 2016, 04:57:40 PM Once again, why are we messing with the tune? This seems like the biggest waste of time band-aid approach, that pretty much everyone looks down on here (rightfully so). I was assuming the car was running fine stock. If it isn't, tuning around broken hw is definitely the wrong approach. I'd return the car to 100% stock 1) stock intake (no bullshit cone filter) 2) stock dv (no bullshit aftermarket DVs) 3) stock cats and both o2s 4) stock ECU tune (except for SAI changes) and go from there. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 20, 2016, 07:57:20 PM RKTI as requested
timxth_W can't find other variables, irrelevant now. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 20, 2016, 09:17:27 PM RKTI as requested timxth_W can't find other variables, irrelevant now. That is ur lower lambda limit? Rich? What's up with the other vars? Looks like ATR tbh fuck me it's rich Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 21, 2016, 10:55:37 AM Update:
Replaced Throttle body due to P0507 code, logged, no change. IDC 120%, boost fluctuation still present. Replaced fuel injectors, logged, no change. IDC 120%, boost fluctuation still present. There are multiple issues going on here, unless this is the ECU. Next step, replace ecu as I have a spare. I just need some help adapting the ECU to my immo, I tried to do this before, following the steps i found on nefmoto in the immo section and it didn't work. I'm also going to buy a new set of spark plugs and a 4 bar FPR off ECS tuning and replace one by one. I am convinced that if my ecu or O2 sensor or MAF is not fucked up, my hardware has officially maxed out injectors (cat less, 2.25" ss exhaust, cone filter, vvt enabled). An odd occurrence but I guess it's a possibility that now has to be considered a reality as I was not considering it before. With money, winter approaching, job and teaching situations and other issues, going back to stock hardware is out of the question so I have to figure this out with what is on the car now. …running out of patience and money... Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on January 21, 2016, 11:39:44 AM what's you're lower lamda rich limit set to?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 21, 2016, 12:07:40 PM If you checked and verified fuel pressure with an accurate gauge under load, there should be no need for the FPR. Also AWP's come with 3bar FPR'S. Unless you were going to add a 4bar to make it more interesting?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 21, 2016, 02:34:35 PM If you checked and verified fuel pressure with an accurate gauge under load, there should be no need for the FPR. Also AWP's come with 3bar FPR'S. Unless you were going to add a 4bar to make it more interesting? Yes, once i fully determine or am concretely sure that my hardware setup has maxed out my injectors and that its not an issue from the o2, maf or ecu, i will be upgrading the fpr to 4 bar to put injectors back into play I still have to figure out what is with the strange boost drop...plugs may address that... I also have to run a smoke leak test and compression test Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 26, 2016, 11:51:02 AM Update:
Ran a compression test. 210-215 PSI, engine is practically brand new with 180,000 miles on it. Ran a smoke intake tract leak test. No signs of leaks. Swapped donor ECU HS box in, logged. No changes, boost fluctuation still present, IDC still peaking at 120% Plugs will be here this week. Going to grab fuel pump relay and n75 WG actuator solenoid from the scrap yard and swap in. Going to buy an O2 and possibly a MAF this week and swap in and see if that has any effect on the issues. Otherwise here's the game plan: I 'm going to chock these issues up to software and hardware. IDC peaking at 120%: Replacing 3 bar FPR with 4 bar FPR and see where IDC is at. Hopefully ya'll can give me some pointers on tuning afterwards? Boost hickup: All I can think of is that something in the software is and has always been causing this strange drop. The changing of my hardware has exacerbated how this fluctuation feels. That, or there's something physically wrong with my actual turbocharger. Those are the only two ideas I have. Anyone want to vie for or against these theories? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on January 26, 2016, 11:58:27 AM Boost hickup I still can't find a log that shows this (at least not WOT) Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 26, 2016, 01:19:28 PM I posted a png of it. You cannot feel it in WOT, just part throttle. Ill post another png. Its most noticeable in 2nd
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: vwaudiguy on January 26, 2016, 05:02:37 PM "engine is practically brand new with 180,000 miles on it"
A cranking compression test only tells you so much, and usually unless something is VERY wrong, isn't much. I know I'm just splitting hairs, but this made me lol. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on January 27, 2016, 07:48:07 AM Very true.
Im just trying to make myself feel better lol Lots of other things could be bad. cam seals are giving me issues too. Leaking everywhere. Prob cuz of my draft tube ccv setup. It was only meant to be temporary, gotta fix that. I have mating up a toyota ct26 twinscroll turbo ideas in mind but with 180,000 that aint happening without a full engine rebuild. That should happen soon if i have my way. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 10, 2016, 08:09:09 PM new update. I've done a lot and ruled out a lot.
What I did: N75 testing and replacement. All was fine, good resistance. no change in symptoms. new plugs. old ones were fine. Missfires reduced? time will tell. Old plugs had signs of moisture reaction, red residue on the ceramic. Tuned eDV properly. Read FR on it's control, understand it, it is working as it should. It's not associated with the boost fluctuation. Swapped in new maf. PNG associated. Maf isn't the issue. Next is O2, need to find one first... I keep getting an implausible signal from my vehicle speed sensor, often. Have to replace that, might be the issue. On to fueling. Log attached. 4bar FPR, KRKTE scaled. High flow fuel pump as previously stated. IDC is still hitting 100%. not 120% like it was before though. I need to read up on how to properly numb BTS so I can make that dissapear and actually get a good look at my IDC during open loop. Pointers? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 10, 2016, 09:15:02 PM Why don't you log the LAMKO variables and isolate exactly what is requesting that enrichment?
ATR, BTS...? What does timing look like? Ignition angle efficiency? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 10, 2016, 10:14:14 PM Why don't you log the LAMKO variables and isolate exactly what is requesting that enrichment? ATR, BTS...? What does timing look like? Ignition angle efficiency? His IDC is > 95%, RKTi kicks in by the looks then maybe ATR and or injectors (h/w) or cals as it's way below lower lambda limit. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 10, 2016, 10:15:19 PM new update. I've done a lot and ruled out a lot. What I did: N75 testing and replacement. All was fine, good resistance. no change in symptoms. new plugs. old ones were fine. Missfires reduced? time will tell. Old plugs had signs of moisture reaction, red residue on the ceramic. Tuned eDV properly. Read FV on it's control, understand it, it is working as it should. It's not associated with the boost fluctuation. Swapped in new maf. PNG associated. Maf isn't the issue. Next is O2, need to find one first... I keep getting an implausible signal from my vehicle speed sensor, often. Have to replace that, might be the issue. On to fueling. Log attached. 4bar FPR, KRKTE scaled. High flow fuel pump as previously stated. IDC is still hitting 100%. not 120% like it was before though. I need to read up on how to properly numb BTS so I can make that dissapear and actually get a good look at my IDC during open loop. Pointers? IDC is still too high. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 10, 2016, 11:00:21 PM Quote Why don't you log the LAMKO variables and isolate exactly what is requesting that enrichment? ATR, BTS...? Because I don't quite fully grasp how ATR and BTS affect LAMFA. Looked at German FR. Lamfa_w? Lambts_w? dlamatr_w? Lamnswl_w? lamkh_w? flamkh? lamdkt_w? lamlash_w? lamelsh_w lamka_w? lamlshv_w? Lamau_w? they also have "2" derivatives…should I log those? This is a tidbit confusing…I have studying to do but not sure what to study to fully grasp the subject of EGT enrichment… made this pdf from the FR. study this? or is this not the full picture of the situation? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 11, 2016, 04:08:28 AM Well EGT enrichment comes via ATR lol, dlamatr_w is the delta value.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 11, 2016, 06:38:50 AM His IDC is > 95%, RKTi kicks in by the looks then maybe ATR and or injectors (h/w) or cals as it's way below lower lambda limit. I'm not sure you understand RKTI. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 11, 2016, 06:40:04 AM Because I don't quite fully grasp how ATR and BTS affect LAMFA. Looked at German FR. Lamfa_w? Lambts_w? dlamatr_w? Lamnswl_w? lamkh_w? flamkh? lamdkt_w? lamlash_w? lamelsh_w lamka_w? lamlshv_w? Lamau_w? they also have "2" derivatives…should I log those? This is a tidbit confusing…I have studying to do but not sure what to study to fully grasp the subject of EGT enrichment… made this pdf from the FR. study this? or is this not the full picture of the situation? Most likely lambts_w and dlamatr_w will be enough. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 11, 2016, 05:21:28 PM Logged those two variables. I studied the wiki on fueling again. Makes more sense now. Interpreted a bit of the FR. The puzzles pieces are beginning to fit together.
Dlamatr_w is 0 all the way. Fueling dip looks to follow BTS. Ill dissable it later and log. I think i need to log lamfawkr_w too. Thats for the rundown phila Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on February 11, 2016, 06:07:34 PM have you logged tabgbts_w?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 11, 2016, 06:28:20 PM Forgot that one. Ill add that to the pile along with timing efficiency stuff.
Ive been sort of interpretting where tabgbts comes in, forgot i can log it. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 11, 2016, 06:31:15 PM Disabling shouldn't be the goal here.
You want to find out what is requesting the enrichment and why. Again, what does timing look like? Heavy retard can trigger enrichment through lamfa_w and late angles can trigger enrichment through lambts_w. As SB_GLI is alluding to, tabgbts_w (tabgm_w on 551M) can be triggering a multiplier to lambts_w. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 11, 2016, 09:31:02 PM you understand RKTI. look again man it in the efin diagram and asm! It's YOU that don't understand it! One way thinking - I'm surprised. For the correctness of the thread you should consider retracting that incorrect statement as it derails pages pack lol I have no hard feeling just surprise! :) (I'll give you a clue one of the maps begins with a P) Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 11, 2016, 10:17:05 PM Magic mystery carousel this thread.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 11, 2016, 10:20:08 PM Disabling shouldn't be the goal here. You want to find out what is requesting the enrichment and why. Again, what does timing look like? Heavy retard can trigger enrichment through lamfa_w and late angles can trigger enrichment through lambts_w. As SB_GLI is alluding to, tabgbts_w (tabgm_w on 551M) can be triggering a multiplier to lambts_w. 99% ATR but he won't listen or log it or even disable it temp. I'm done deaf ears n that. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 12, 2016, 04:39:22 AM Dreamer, I'm not a child and don't need your hints. If you have something to say, say it. You're the guy that uses so many words to say nothing.
And he said he logged dlamatr_w and it was all zero. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 12, 2016, 05:59:16 PM Dreamer, I'm not a child and don't need your hints. If you have something to say, say it. You're the guy that uses so many words to say nothing. And he said he logged dlamatr_w and it was all zero. If you read back the whole thread i posted blinking highlighted diagrams, so more illustration than words I'd say. There also lies the answer to where you are wrong, I just found it unbelievable hence my retort. p= PVMITIBGR, to be honest I wrote it like (P) that as I could not remember it exactly and could not be bothered to look it up, so it wasn't personal. Correct, I missed the ATR var being zero. I'd rather not derail this thread so take a look a the whole thread and PM me any stick if you want, and I'd rather not get personal by 'labeling' someone on a public forum as you just did to me. OP I hope yo get it sorted :) Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 12, 2016, 06:16:22 PM Where do you see slow path torque intervention in that graph?
The effect would be limited milsol -> lower rlsol, I don't see how that applies here. Considering RKTI's function is to convert fuel mass to iot, it's also likely RKTI "kicked in" long before that small sample in the graph. Sorry, but i don't need to read back this thread to see your diagram. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 12, 2016, 06:21:32 PM Oh and also, that short period barely above 100% dc wouldn't even begin to trigger intervention. Speaking from experience, unless his software is massively different in this case.
Aaaannnnnd the only reason why his idc is so high is because of the lambda intervention, high idc isn't a cause here; it's an effect. Don't post bad info as a fact or get upset and smite people when they challenge you for it. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 12, 2016, 06:35:16 PM He was @ 120% DC if you read the thread. That is what I was referring to.
It wasn't me that smited you either, get a grip Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 12, 2016, 06:50:14 PM Lol ok guy stick to your guns
I hope we put that theory to rest at least. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on February 12, 2016, 07:07:39 PM The theory of 120% DC causing torque reduction? Yes, it is a fact.
As to what is causing the lambda to lower to it's lower lambda limit, that is a different question. One after ATR I do not have a theory of, and now I am sick of it so keep it OT and help the man, as we've all been trying to for several pages. :) As for the smite, honestly, who cares, I don't for one. Thus is why it was not me! Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 17, 2016, 08:21:40 PM Ok, after tons of snow, logged finally.
I'm confused. dlamatr_w=0 B_Rkatr=0 B_atr=0 B_tabgbts=condEGTpartProtection=0 Lamfawkr_w=1 lamfwl_w=1 B_lamfas=0 I logged a bunch of random variables just in case they have any relation to what I'm trying to understand. I don't necessarily understand what they all do but they're there and logged if needed. It appears tabgbts is not triggering. It also seems that knock in cyl 1+3 is out of control in the upper rpms. It also seems like ignition continues to advance in these high rpms? I'm still very much a noob with interpreting knock and ignition timing. I haven't had much time to study these things. Log is attached. If someone has suggestions on which variables to cross reference, please let me know or take a look. I'm sure there are very obvious things i'm missing. Anyone have any clues? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 17, 2016, 08:29:49 PM log
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 17, 2016, 08:53:53 PM Well it's clearly BTS.
Weird that tabgbts_w is != and much greater than tabgm_w. What does FBSTABGM look like? Can you log lbts_w and dlambts_w? There is no KR in that log, dwkrz is 0 across the board, so I wouldn't expect it to be dlambts_w unless KFZW is a mess or you dicked around with KFZWOP. My guess is FBSTABGM, but idk what's up with your tabgbts_w. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 17, 2016, 10:15:51 PM ok, noob alert. Those two variables: dlambts_w and lbts_w aren't in my config and I don't know how to add variables to CFG files to be able to log them. Quick search function use yielded no specific results. Found how to add measurement blocks to vcds but not me7logger CFG files.
added KR to the log and some other stuff. Will log tomorrow. All ignition maps are bone stock, haven't messed with any of that. I don't know what I'm doing with that just yet. I am learning a fuck ton because of this whole situation though. :D Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 18, 2016, 12:12:16 PM put post cat O2 back in. Undid all the variables I changed excluding cat DTC related ones. No change in the logs. I suppose I should run aging and other diagnostics on it also.
I put in a new vehicle speed sensor, went for a drive and immediately got an implausible signal from it even though I bought new....I guess I'll replace the stalk and gear then. I don't think it's related. Logged KR, it's 1 all throughout WOT pull. Not sure what that tells me. I'll try and log the other two variables once figure out how to add them to the config. Oh, also, I know what is up with my tabg. I dialed the threshold back up to about 1100 deg C to see if ATR was affecting onset of lambts. Then we logged ATR variables directly and I forgot to put it back to previous value so it's still doing things just not in range of the filter or EGT temps (prob won't see 1100 deg C will they?) But it seems neither tabg nor the ATR variables we logged are the culprit as to why bts is enacting. So, if we log the correct variable, we'll find why BTS is present and hopefully what is prompting it to come into play. Idea, could the high side of the ignition map be triggering something to force lambts? What could be that thing? ignition changes seem to coincide with LAMBTS coming into play. I really need to find time to digest the FR on exactly how LAMBTS works with all the other variables it's connected to....anyone super knowledgeable on BTS FR? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: ddillenger on February 18, 2016, 05:54:03 PM This is BTS. It's happening at ~920 degrees. Post your modified file and I will make sure all the addresses are correct and sanity check your changes.
Also, you appear to be logging the wrong condition bits for this scenario. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 19, 2016, 01:34:48 PM This is stock software?
Strange looking logs Temporarily zero fill KFFDLBTS and log to expose dlambts_w. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 19, 2016, 06:44:19 PM ddillenger, thanks.
phila: the SW is stock , yes. What looks off about the logs? things that have been changed currently: Evaporative system: CDLDP CDTES Secondary air injection: MSLUB Catalytic converter DTC: CDKAT CWDLSAHK Diverter valve: KFSDLDSUA - changed to 0 from 230/200. THLDUVD - set to 2.5 from 2 Fueling: LAMFA - First column, last row set to 1.0001 from .9454. 97% column tapered to .8438. 94% column tapered to .8438 TLAFA - set to 0 from 1 KRKTE - set to .08940 (bin forces to.08936) from .10301 What condition bits should I log? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 21, 2016, 10:12:36 AM Quote You can test readiness by using VCDS/VAGCOM[60] To fix up the EGT model: ATM: ZATMIKML = 1 ZATMIKKML = 1 TABGMEX = F(max) TIKATMOE = 0 ZATMKML = 1 ZATMKKML = 1 TKATMOE = 0 (above maps can be skipped IF diagnostic functions DLSH, DLSAHK, DHLSHK, DSLSLRS, DKATLRS are disabled AND LAMBTS, LRSKA, BBSAWE, LRSHK are fixed as shown further down. But personally I would set these maps anyway to do a *proper fix*, so even me7 logger would log tkatm_w = tikatm_w = tabgm) CWKONABG.0 = 0 TKATW = F(max) LAMBTS (1. use temperature in exhaust manifold for BTS enrichment instead of precat 2. Enable LAMBTS only on high exhaust manifold temperatures - ignore cat/precat temperatures): CWLAMBTS.2 = 1 DTBTS = 0 TKATBTS = F(max) TIKATBTS = F(max) Reread the wiki, should i have set ATM maps to fix the EGT model if i only have no cat and still rear O2? Not sure if it pertains but maybe my EGT model is off? Thoughts? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on February 21, 2016, 01:19:14 PM Reread the wiki, should i have set ATM maps to fix the EGT model if i only have no cat and still rear O2? Err. That is misleading :( I blame the wiki: it says something about removing the O2 requires fixes to the "EGT model" which is a misnomer. It should be the "O2 sensor temp model". I'll fix it time permitting... or maybe dd will beat me too it :) Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 21, 2016, 03:48:50 PM so just to confirm, exclusively removing the rear O2 requires changes to ATM, otherwise, no changes necessary? (such as cat removal)
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on February 21, 2016, 03:54:06 PM so just to confirm, exclusively removing the rear O2 requires changes to ATM, otherwise, no changes necessary? (such as cat removal) Yea, generally nothing else, at least on the 2.7t, unfortunately that is my only first hand experience with rear o2 removal. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 22, 2016, 08:08:23 AM so just to confirm, exclusively removing the rear O2 requires changes to ATM, otherwise, no changes necessary? (such as cat removal) No, the attempt is to change the model for removal of pre-cats and it is definitely not necesary imo. In your current situation, I suggest you try to keep changes to a minimum. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 22, 2016, 10:46:05 AM Thanks for the clarity. I will try and zero KFFDLBTS temporarily and log tomorrow to expose dlambts_w
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 23, 2016, 10:32:25 AM Ok, I don't know if lambts_w is the same as dlambts_w. I'm assuming not, which means the variable is not in my CFG file. I still have no clue how to add variables to my CFG file and every time I search, I come up empty handed.
Here is the log with the KFFDLBTS table zero'ed. I don't see any difference from any other log I've taken. If I'm logging wrong variables, please give me some input as to which ones to log. I also got a code I haven't gotten before: P0130 Oxygen (lambda) Sensor B1 S1- malfunction in circuit-intermittent. Thinking out loud here. I should've thought about this before, as I teach ceramics. 700 deg C (1292 deg F) is a dull red color which is pretty fuckin' hot, if you assume that upstream of the front O2 is prob a couple hundred degrees hotter (say 920 deg C, 1688 deg F) that's a bright red orange color according to my pyrometric cone chart. That's pretty damn close to melt the shit out of my engine temperatures. Yet I have brought my car to WOT several times for logging over the past month with no catastrophic failures. To me, this sounds like the EGT model is wrong. Also, the new code seems to be a tip off. This is all assuming the o2 sensor has influence on the EGT model as i dont actually know how its calculated. Time to pony up and buy new O2's. I'll do that and get back to ya'll. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 23, 2016, 03:10:32 PM Not to overlook the obvious, post KFLBTS.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: phila_dot on February 23, 2016, 03:16:37 PM No dlambts_w offsets (delta) lambts_w for ignition angle efficiency.
KFFDLBTS = 0 -> dlamtbts_w = 0 I assumed you already checked KFLBTS, but it looks like that's the source of your problem. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 23, 2016, 07:25:07 PM KFD
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on February 23, 2016, 08:31:15 PM That is not KFLBTS
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 23, 2016, 09:58:22 PM Durr, my bad.
:P Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on February 23, 2016, 11:16:47 PM I spy a ton of enrichment.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on February 27, 2016, 09:36:51 AM Setting kfl, kfdl and kffdl to .8204 max enrichment. Whats the rule of thumb for the relation between egt model and egt enrichment? Lamfa is about .838. Heard someone post that he drops bts about that amount below lamfa...
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on March 03, 2016, 01:32:23 PM I've been working and studying a bit. Could you review the fueling changes I've done so far and comment?
I've enabled KR, using Lamfa ever so slightly and also have BTS in place. One log is a 2nd-5th gear pull on the highway full clip. 940 C egt at highest with 11.37 AFR richest out of both BTS and KR. I look at my logs and see that KR is operating but DZWLAMFAW (amongst other variables, such as selected gear) appear in my logs every so often, but in other logs, they are static 0 and I'm not sure why the switch. One CSV: WOT single 2nd gear pull: DZW shows up down to -2.25 once Other CSV: WOT 2nd-3rd-4th-5th: DZW all 0. Also, selected gear used to show up but no longer does. What gives? CWLAMFAW is 0, factory setting Also contemplating removing lamfa from the picture, in the single WOT pull log, there are no huge drops of enrichment when the throttle plate re opens upon shifting into the next gear. Any idea what may cause this? Quote when bit zero is set to 0, don't allow dzwwl to advance dzwlamfaw. what does this mean? I think cw is not set properly, it's scalar is 0. How do you find bit 0? Also, does anyone have info on logging dzwwl?Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on March 03, 2016, 01:32:56 PM single 2nd gear WOT
Also, I have logged mibas/mizsolv mifa/misolv and miszul but I havent had the time to study how to interpret TI, could someone take a look at these variables for me and give me a rundown on what to look for and how to interpret TI? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on March 11, 2016, 09:25:27 PM This still not sorted? I'd of though whats his name would have impressed you with var names, program flow and a fix by now.
pm one of the mods mybe I'm beyond helping sorry buddy Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on March 11, 2016, 09:43:14 PM FFS please don't pm anybody. Torque monitoring is likely not your problem.
What is your KFLBTS? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on March 17, 2016, 06:34:47 AM Computer charger died, so I won't be able to get a screen cap until next week but it's mainly 1 and tapers to .75 or so towards the bottom right side of the table.
.gif related but not my table. Tapers in the same manner. Basically the exact same. png #1: part throttle. shows pedal pos steady and mostly static, throttle plate angle drops suddenly and so does boost. Why? this is the most direct example I can provide of what I'm feeling. png #2: part throttle. 2nd gear is same as png #1. 3rd gear? wtf, pedal pos steady and static yet throttle plate opens significantly and thusly, boost increases. png #3: another example of part throttle boost and throttle plate random closing. next gear is normal and fine, gear after that, random boost drop again. png #4: Shows boost drop and DV logged. My eDV follows B_ldsua. 1 is open, 0 is closed. I had it operating under cruise conditions at the time so it was open most of the time. I tested this by turning cruise condition for DV on and off, no change in boost fluctuation so that isnt the issue, plus, you'd see a change in Bldsua where the drop occured if it was a factor. It's got something to do with something else png #5: AFR influence during boost fluctuation evidence. 1 all the way throughout the anomaly. What would BTS have to do with this? I am limited to old logs and what variables I can graph until I get my comp running again. I'm not sure what other variables to compare and contrast. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on March 17, 2016, 08:37:57 AM There's also a bit of ignition retardation. You sure it's not TI? I could still use some help with torque intervention, torque management and load understanding and log interpretation (mibas/mizsolv mifa/misolv and miszul)....
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on March 17, 2016, 10:33:56 AM Throttle cut is slow path intervention, not torque intervention (which generally implies timing, or fast path).
Post your log. Or at least graph req torque and actual torque, and req boost and actual boost. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on March 20, 2016, 12:34:49 PM Also, im still having fueling issues. Fuel pump only primes 90% of the time on startup and that 10% is usually on cold starts or first thing in the morning. It's hard to replicate. Swapped in new fuel pump, no difference. I need to check the voltage to the pump on cold startup. Maybe replace the sending unit housing? Maybe a line is clogged(unlikely).
I should check the fuel pump wiring under the car to the ecu too. I had injectors flow tested, new fpr, new pump, new filter. New and tested relay. Fuel rail is clean and clear i think... Has anyone ever delt with this bullshit before? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on March 22, 2016, 05:25:51 PM Logicboard died right in the middle of finals, can't make progress on this until may.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 16, 2016, 03:17:21 PM Ok, We're back. I finally got my logging computer fixed (fingers crossed). I've logged requested torque (mifa) vs actual torque (mibas) and requested boost vs actual boost and I don't see any discrepancies. Variables taken off of this log.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 17, 2016, 01:00:35 PM I've also been running some tests. One of whichh was a leak down. Less than 10% on all cylinders. So rings and valve seats are good at least
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on April 25, 2016, 01:19:29 AM I said it was fuel months ago lol
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 26, 2016, 02:49:13 PM I dont understand
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on April 26, 2016, 08:29:50 PM have you measured fuel pressure at the rail with a mechanical gauge?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on April 26, 2016, 08:56:00 PM I am seeing pedal drop (wped_w) to zero periodically.
Bad accel pedal. Definitely seen this before. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 26, 2016, 09:31:41 PM SB_GLI, Yes. I measured fuel pressure at the rail. The results are buried in this thread somewhere. It was 100% in spec.
Nyet, those drops to 0 are gear shifts…. Am i missing a joke or sarcasm or something? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on April 26, 2016, 09:38:33 PM I'm honestly not seeing anything else in those logs.
gear is 0, vehicle speed is 0, hard to tell what is shift and what is ped dropping out and what is you off throttle. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 26, 2016, 10:01:28 PM Yea I don't really know why selected gear stopped working. I believe selected gear is calculated off of vehicle speed sensor input which I am still having issues with and possibly wheel diameter size. I read about it a while back. i can't remember what it said.
Im going to get that sorted so logs can have needed data again. Not sure what might be causing the boost fluctuation. I'm out of ideas and I think I'm going to cease the chase. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on April 26, 2016, 10:02:35 PM Is it possible something is wrong with your vehicle speed sensor? Esp if it was working before?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 26, 2016, 10:05:13 PM Yes. I keep getting an implausible sensor code intermittent for vehicle speed. I replaced the sensor top (the actual sensor that has to do with electricals) with a new one but it's still happening. I'm going to replace the gear wheel and stalk, the whole thing and see whats that does.
Looks like this: (http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/z8sAAOSwYHxWQ2Hm/s-l225.jpg) Any idea on the extent to which vehicle speed is used to calculate motor functions such as say throttle position as an example? or maybe fuel input or boost cutting? maybe abs function or something? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: adam- on April 26, 2016, 11:43:39 PM Have you pulled the cluster fuse?
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 27, 2016, 12:48:32 AM Every time i log. I have to with my mk4.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: adam- on April 27, 2016, 02:01:50 AM If I pull the cluster fuse NLS/AL works at all speeds, so I think that's why you've got no gangi. ESP works as normal when my cluster is live too.
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on April 27, 2016, 09:45:57 AM Yep, cluster fuse pulled = no reference to vehicle speed and thus gear. It causes all sorts of other craziness. Wish we had me7logger source to try to fix so we didn't have to pull cluster fuse. :(
golfputtputt, it seems like you are trying way too hard to fix a hardware issue with software changes. I would revert back to a completely stock file and try to address your issue from there. Also, what Nyet said about accel pedal position. dig into that. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on April 27, 2016, 10:05:52 AM Yep, cluster fuse pulled = no reference to vehicle speed and thus gear. It causes all sorts of other craziness. Wish we had me7logger source to try to fix so we didn't have to pull cluster fuse. :( Yea, make sense. Quote I would revert back to a completely stock file and try to address your issue from there. I agree Quote Also, what Nyet said about accel pedal position. dig into that. Unless those really are shifts.. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 27, 2016, 11:29:30 AM Yea those are shifts. If you refence throttle angle with ped pos it drops too. Plus i know that log and its my "around town" style of driving. Short shift to 4th and cruise.
I mean, i guess it wouldnt hurt to replace the pedal, hell ive replaced alot of other things chasing this problem... Alright. Ill load in the stock file and see whatsup. I actually had the thought that maybe i could get a clue about a possible hardware issue through software cues but no go. Unfortunately, that still leaves me with very few ideas. Next to try: maybe bad turbo? Maybe bad dual mass flywheel? Otherwise, ive tried logical stuff like compression and leak down test, plugs, intake tract leak etc Also for my reference, whats NLS/AL? Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on April 27, 2016, 11:45:11 AM If you refence throttle angle with ped pos it drops too. If the pedal was bad, the throttle angle would definitely still change :P Quote Also for my reference, whats NLS/AL? No lift shift, anti-lag Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 27, 2016, 01:53:20 PM Hmm. alright thats news to me. I may try and find a deal on a new pedal and see what happens.
Thanks, that's what I thought, no lift shift, anti lag. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: nyet on April 27, 2016, 02:01:38 PM Hmm. alright thats news to me. I may try and find a deal on a new pedal and see what happens. I'd verify this by log first; no point in spending money on a pedal You said those dropouts were just shifts.. should be easy enough to verify. I supposed I could look for cluch in/out in your logs as well but I'm lazy; do it yourself :P Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: golfputtputt on April 29, 2016, 07:58:49 PM Solved the issue. At the beginning of this thread, I replaced the line to the FPR with what i thought was new rubber. Wrong, whatever auto zone sold me must have been sitting around for a while because it had split wide open at the bend points in the rubber and was crumbling inside. I have divorced the crankcase and intake systems so there should be no oil or oil residue in or near these lines. Replaced with a different line, thick wall reinforced rubber hose. Maybe this time my vacuum lines won't crumble to pieces twice in two months. Found out by blasting things with brake cleaner whilst keeping the car in block 037 test to baseline an idle and check for fluctuations.
after 13 pages. Closure, finally…. Thank you for everyone's help. Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: SB_GLI on April 30, 2016, 06:18:17 AM now you can tune it! ;D try and upload some logs!
Title: Re: 1.8t AWP Part throttle hickup!!! WTF!! Post by: dream3R on May 02, 2016, 07:24:44 PM 1 page was the answer lol, glad you found it buddy.
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