NefMoto

Hey all,

I've been trying to make a bench harness that would connect a mk4 jetta cluster and ecu and allow them to talk to each other as well as the ODB port.

I've wired it up in accordance to Mitchell ondemand wiring diagram, Then i can communicate with the cluster without an issue but both the cluster and the OBD port cant talk to the Ecu.

If i deviate from the wiring and connect the two K lines between them, Then it cant connect to either and more often than not the OBD adapter will not respond.

Anyone done this before? Any ideas?

f1torrents should have this set up working. maybe he will chime in.

Cluster/ECU kline to obd, w-line cluster to ecu. And reg pwr/grnds

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=392911 (https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=392911)

Make sure you connect the wiring properly or it will fail to work.

Thanks for the reply guys,

I have it hooked up like your describing minus the CAN-Bus wires are floating currently, and like i said... When i combine the two Klines between the cluster and the ECU it is either holding it high, or pulling it low causing the Cable to Opt out reading it.

They do recommend resistors on each side aswell in link i posted. Try it out.

Edit: remove ecu kline and hookup canbus to cluster/obd it should fix it.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/11/22b73b99e5a2167bafadd7521f05adf9.jpg)
Pic from tdiclub

You may have to terminate the bus as well try 60r or 120r if you get no comms.

Sorry for the lack of update, Been Fighting off a bad case of food poisoning.... not fun at all.

anyway,
Hooked it up according to the picture and I'm able to get communication via k-line to both the cluster and the ECU, But the Cluster is still tossing the 01314 code ( 01314 - Engine Control Module: No Communications )

I've jumped both 60 and 120 resistors across the can hi and low with no avail.

W-line <-

If you have it then recheck.  Which ecu are you using?

W-line is going from pin 5 on green on the cluster to pin 43 on the ECU.

The ECU is VW ME7.5 1.8T

 

So the CAN-Gateway is tossing the same code ( 01314 ) , I've reversed the can hi and can low on the cluster and it tossed a faulty wiring code as well, So I'm on the correct pins.
Switching it back got that code gone, but the no coms is still there.

I've ohmed the CAN lines on the ECU and they're 60ohms, I've done anything from 50-130 ohms on the cluster side with no avail.

Just for the sake of putting it out there, This is my current config:

12V
Blue:
Pin 1
pin 19
Pin 23
Green:
Pin 14

Grounds:
Blue:
pin 22
pin 5 ( gas gauge )
Pin 24
Green:
pin 13

K line:
Pin 7 from OBD port to Pin 25 ( Blue ) Cluster

W-Line:
Pin 5 ( Green ) Cluster to Pin 43 on the ECU.

Can Hi:
Pin 19 ( green ) on cluster to Pin 60 on ECU

Can-Lo:
Pin 20 ( green ) Cluster to pin 58 on ECU.

Connection to either components via VCDS is no problem at all, but talking among each other seems to be an issue.

Also, When reading the rosstech wiki on fault code 01314, it lists specifically to check the can-bus lines.

Two sets of can wires on ecu ( in and out)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/14/b673f770a1464e12e5e1c54e47c890a6.jpg)

     2 : +12V ( term.30 )
     5 :  GND ( term. 31 )
   16 : +12V  ( term. 15 )
   37 : K Line
   82 or 7 : CAN High
   83 or 6 : CAN Low

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/14/6865669666de745184981eeb58f1d4d0.jpg)

     2 : +12V ( term.30 )
     5 :  GND ( term. 31 )
   16 : +12V  ( term. 15 )
   37 : K Line
   82 or 7 : CAN High
   83 or 6 : CAN Low

First is edc 15 other is 7.1.1

Thank you for the reply, the first illustration seems to be me7 imo, and that's exactly how I have it hooked up.

For the sake of trying something, wire up canbus module and see if it works

The cluster *is* wired to canbus directly to the ECU.

I don't have another module to plug into it, the wiring tk the obd port is not wired due to the adaptor I'm currently using not supporting can-bus anyway.

I could wire that and use my rostech adaptor and attempt to canbus in, though I didn't think the mk4's played nice with that.

i ment using gateway module and cluster and ecu, not wires between ecu and cluster. Only reason i suggested incase immo3 setup.

I could be misunderstanding here, but the can-bus gateway is located within the cluster.
so its already wired in and functioning.

The Cluster and ECU is from a 2001.5 jetta Wolfsburg with the AWW engine, its IMMO2.

I've attached pics of the modules connected along with their codes...

the ECU does have a different SW on it ATM, but it Was/IS a 06A906032DL ECU native to the AWW equipped 2001.5 chassis.

Alright, I'll take egg on my face for this one.... But it turns out the ECU was unresponsive turning initial power up this whole time causing the cluster and etc to toss that code.

If i switched on the 12V power supply with the cluster unplugged giving the ECU a moment to start up first, THEN connect the cluster all is swell ( no codes, nothing, happy happy ) 

as great as a discovery as that is, it doesn't help out my TRUE issue.

Would the lack of IMMO pickup coil hinder much in terms of functionality? I'm trying to create a "standalone" bench style flasher for my Maestro suite for my swap, Connect the cluster and etc when flashing or working with the suite is needed... the rest of the time its gone out of the car... Everything works perfectly right until the actual flashing where it calls a "starting communication.... Task Failed! Timed out" error.

If i plug both the ecu and cluster in a mk4 chassis it'll progress without an issue.

The Immo coil is the only thing left i can think of now that this com issue is cleared up. 

I power everything same time or with toggle switch to simulate ign. I have coil reader hooked up aswell ( pull lock from column and plugin) im using oem plugs for immo/cluster/ecu not just single wires with connectors.

ECU gets pwr constant and switched(ign)

I would supply pics but the stuff is in storage.

I get what you're saying, and that is the way i have my ECU only bench harnesses working But with this one the ignition was on the same 12V line as the constant 12V feed.
When its implemented in the chassis, It'll be switched accordingly without an issue but on the bench it needs a little extra step. :)

I'll have to see if i can grab a coil and wiring to hook it up, I hope... seriously hope that gets this setup working.

Looking at this expensive piece of software that i bought to make things "easier" to tune my car and thinking of all of the headaches so far, It kinda feels like I've payed to been annoyed for a few years now.

I can sell you a harness :P

But honestly u feed ign on via toggle and it should be fine.

Thanks for the offer, but I can make the changes without an issue..

I'm just hoping that the coil is my issue for programming.

What are you programming?

The ECU via maestro, it uses the ECU to authenticate the license prior to flashing.

So now there talking without an issue, but it still fails due to a timeout communication to a component, the only thing I can think of is the immo coil error is not allowing the cluster to move forward with a certain mode.

See if you can do security login from ecu

Used the SKC to log into the cluster, ECU Errors out.

What are you trying to achieve?

cluster-ecu-obd bench harness w/ability to speak with both units and do login/auth via his maestro cable

Exactly,  I'll be working on the ECU side and why its not accepting the login after work.

Why do you need to do this on the bench?  I mean, what's the overall achievement?  Just for fun? :)  I don't understand when you can just bootmode on the bench and run in the car.  Or just flash in the car.

Some people dont have charger incase volts drop *shrug*

Sorry for the confusion guys,

a few years back, I got fed up with dealing with OLS and the checksums and etc and bought the Maestro 7 suite, The issue with that is it needs to be Tied to a Chassis.
So I've tied it to a MK4 1.8T even though its a Corrado swap.

SOOOOOO, I need to create a standalone/bench harness that will play nice with the maestro suite to plug it into the corrado when I'm going to tune.. The rest of the time it'll be unplugged and stuffed in a corner ( using all the stock dash/etc )

Maestro Locks to both the ECU and Cluster to authenticate that you're tuning the intended chassis.

Moreover, If i plug this cluster and ecu within a different mk4 chassis it'll program without an issue and pass all the authentication.... But i cant seem figure out whats causing it to fail on the bench setup like this...

Here is what i'm talking about btw.


so the first shot is it authenticated, prepping and ready to flash... Then followed by the second screen shot.

Have youtried to reconnect kline to obd/cluster mix? Try it if not

Sorry, I don't get what your asking.... The ECU k line is connected to the cluster w line atm.

Woa what.. Ecu kline is not wline.. There is diff wline wire. I mean tie obd/cluster/ecu klines together

Did you try immo defeating the ecu?

He should not need to immo defeat it

The ECU has always been immo defeated. .

So what's pin is wline on me7?

This is not how it works at all. I recommend looking up a schematic before spreading confusion.

ECU -> W-line -> Cluster -> K-line -> OBD.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/18/3c339db02ce6e458cee0ed615b53d89a.jpg)

Thats how it works ;) but i have previous setup on bench working.

Already mentioned can in/out on ecu aswell


Op: just connect ecu to obd.. You shouldnt have access issues unless maestro doesn't allow it. Itll identify ecu since you can do it even with vcds that way.

When I connect the Klines together ( cluster, ECU and obd port ) I'm unable to connect to the cluster or the ECU.

Did you not read what PRJ said?

That's how it's connected currently and both are communicating perfectly.

But the timeout error is still present.

Also note some modules are termination points.  Also it can change!

You are correct sir!

Yup I know CAN lol.

Im not familiar with the program you are running but I do have a fully functional mk4 bench harness for ecu and cluster. When I was setting it up I had similar problems to what you have where the program hangs because its not getting what it needs to proceed. In my case it was looking for the immo authorization from the cluster, and as I eventually found out the authorization seems to be coming from the cluster to the ecu via the powertrain CAN databus. The cluster on my 2000 has the gateway module integrated into the cluster so there are 2 sets of CAN wires, one set is for the interior body CAN, and the other is the powertrain CAN. All I needed to do was connect the powertrain CAN from the cluster to the ecu and have a valid key transponder in the coil field and then I could obd flash on the bench. There was no need for a terminating resistor, just make sure to measure the HI and LOW CAN wire voltages and match them up, one has like 2.4 volts dc and the other was like 2.6 volts dc.

Excellent! Thank you, I'm going to hook up a immo coil then adapt the immo and see.

That because you have a MODULE either with 120r termination!  The wiring diagrams usually tell a story :P

Basically = 2 controllers, no can termination = ZIP trust me.  Been there done that, lol,  that soooo many times, each bus will have 2 termination controllers on each end usually sometimes 60r (60+60) is used in so yo should find them out and stop rewriting BOCH's can spec.  You should read that as well I  guess :)

For reference you also need at least two can controllers on a network producing acks.

Basically  you bumbled your way though it, well one, seriously I did it once when got an non 120R terminated ECU an was kike WTF soldered ar 120 and instant comms.  But read Bosch and understand it first.

What you are saying is totally true, when I measured the connected network resistance it was 60ohms and the my scope was displaying "mirror images" high and low.

Yes I know I read the can spec and worked for fours years or with it an continue to.

The way it works is odd but will be superseded soon.  Twisted copper pairs etc.  Fibre + Ethernet must be common, if not now as it solves the copper twisted pair issue (EMF)

Can we agree to disagree? The resistor would help elimate noise and other BS... So it's not a bad thing at all
 

I have a 120r jumping on the cluster side, but it DOES function without ( but there may be a lot more noise in the line )

Try one on ecu side aswell (canlines)

Sorry, no.

It was established a while ago that the can is functioning correctly in this setup and it was me powerering everything on including switched ignition on at the same time causing the can error... Power the ecunon first then the cluster and it functions perfectly.

The next lead is dealing with the only codes pending in the cluster being the immo coil and key.

So I'm going to see if I can snag a test setup and use that.

Sorry, i misunderstood previous post because it had been asked about adding 120r to setup... Glad it works, ive got it working proper with ignition turning cluster/ecu ign on same time where ecu is powered as bench pwr kicks in

well can HAS to be terminated simple as really buddy.

It's all good, it's just getting a bit off the rails...



Last words don't mean much, buddy.

CAN-BUS I mean buddy.  The ONLY reason it functions is because one of your modules is terminated already.

http://inst.cs.berkeley.edu/~ee249/fa08/Lectures/handout_canbus2.pdf

Lol, did you read any prior posts? That was established that the ECU has a terminator in it? I measured it at 60ohms .... So yeah! Your totally right!

Welp, got a immo coil and wired it in... Codes are done ( except unauthorized key ) or key signal to low and its exactly the same.

When the cluster and ECU are moved to a mk4 chassis it will program with the chassis key in the ignition and that wouldn't be set for the IMMO for this cluster and ecu.

There has to be something else, and more than likely stupid as hell that i'm missing.

Signal too low is 99.9% loose immo chip.

Hold chip outside of casing to coil or tape it there.

Thank you all for your help, I was correct in assuming it was something stupid.

Was reading up on peoples 2.5L ME7 flashing issues and found my fix, powered pin 121 and it was a go.

Now to clean it up and wrap it, Job done.