NefMoto

Technical => Diagnostics => Topic started by: spacecadet on February 28, 2017, 08:32:58 PM



Title: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on February 28, 2017, 08:32:58 PM
no logs because I'm scared to do a pull with this going on

adaptation( idle ) bank 1 sensor 1:-1.7%
adaptation(partial) bank 1 sensor 1:14.1%

adaptation( idle ) bank 2 sensor 1:-0.8%
adaptation(partial) bank 2 sensor 1:6.3%

Banks are out.

set up:
single turbo pte5858, ID 725's, walbro 450, 2.8 heads, 2.7 block. stock fuel rail and fpr.

I have:
-pressure tested
-smoke tested
-replaced bank 2 02 sensor
-swapped injectors from bank to bank

thoughts:
Tomorrow I'm going to swap 02's to see if it follows. Also wondering if maybe the stock fuel rails/lines/fpr might be to blame so thinking of swapping back to the stock pump also

I need:
More input or thoughts on what to look for or check. Anything is appreciated. I'm a bit lost as what would be causing this.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: nyet on February 28, 2017, 10:17:49 PM
Fuel pump, filter, FPR


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 01, 2017, 07:03:00 AM
Appreciate that. I'll test those out today hopefully one at a time.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 02, 2017, 02:50:33 PM
filter replaced
o2's swapped
fpr swapped
issue persists. I'm sure I've F'ed something up sigh


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: nyet on March 02, 2017, 03:07:32 PM
Only thing left is MAF..


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: vwaudiguy on March 02, 2017, 03:08:56 PM
Only thing left is MAF..

He has a large difference from side to side.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 02, 2017, 03:40:41 PM
Out of pure frustration I was manually moving through every block in the engine tab hoping to find something that would help me.

Nothing really until I hit block 093.

bank 1: 2, bank 2: -9  or vice versa i cant, quite remember.


I don't understand how these got off that much, I used a crank lock pin and cam lock bar so who the hell knows.

I have found a few other threads where people have had similar issues where they just pull the valve covers, pop the cam gears, and vice grip the intake cam into position.

I'm currently working on doing the above. Who knows anymore.

As always i appreciate any input.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: vwaudiguy on March 02, 2017, 03:53:40 PM
I don't understand how these got off that much, I used a crank lock pin and cam lock bar so who the hell knows.

Did you crack the sprockets loose? Need to do that. They are held in place by conical tension. No woodruff key.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 02, 2017, 03:55:55 PM
yea loose sprockets bar on, set timing, tighten sprokets, hand crank twice.

I must have messed something up though. or maybe because my tensioners were without oil pressure for so long due to rebuild that once they primed up they shifted drastically.

Either way we will see if this helps, i sort of doubt it.

Also hope i did not bend valves :(


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 02, 2017, 07:56:21 PM
Welp I successfully moved it from -9 2 to -8 3 smh


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: nyet on March 02, 2017, 08:08:38 PM
He has a large difference from side to side.

They're *both* crazy lean, regardless of the difference...

If something is that awry, the trims might react asymmetrically even if there is a problem that affects both banks.

Do you have before/after logs you can compare?


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: armageddon on March 03, 2017, 01:44:18 AM
Could be the position of lambdas on exhaust?


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 03, 2017, 04:27:08 AM
my o2s are where the duct tape squares are in this picture. A bit hard to see. I would think those would be ok, not sure of anything anymore though.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/oishisakana/DSC01735saturnVwoahh_zpsmidhytfo.jpg)


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: 4ringpieces on March 03, 2017, 06:57:59 AM
Did you smoke test the exhaust or just the intake?

Leaking exhaust before 02 needs ruling out


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 03, 2017, 07:37:03 AM
no smoke test exhaust but i did put 10 psi into the tail pipe then moved my hand all around the up pipes to feel for air, soapy watered everything. Nothing. With the wrap on there though maybe i missed it, I might try to smoke test it once i get the timing fixed. last night i moved it from -9 2 to -8 3. sigh


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: vwaudiguy on March 03, 2017, 09:35:48 AM
I would have tried to get the 02's closer to the heads. Take a look at 034's kit.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 03, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
Yea, I'd change many things knowing what i know now :p If i cant figure this out would not be to big of a deal to move them. if i don't set it on fire first out of frustration


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 03, 2017, 10:33:11 AM
uh oh, just tested bank 1 and all 3 only @ 90psi.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 05, 2017, 12:51:01 PM
small update. all cylinders are ~90psi and im about 99% sure my gauge is just off, hooked it up to 120 psi shop air it read 80 so thats less of a concern now.

Trying to get my block 093 codes within +-4 has been a struggle.

With the exhaust cam lined up perfectly centered on both banks i get 2,-8 no matter what.

I finally got 093 to 2, -3, but in order to do that i had to move the exhaust cam on bank 2 so that its not centered it lines up like this

[__]
^

right inside the outside edge, it seems like my cam chains are stretched and I'm not willing to risk it.

Some slightly positive news is at idle with 2,-3 the bank 1 02 went from like 20% to match bank 2's still not really that hopeful this will fix it, but i will get the timing withing +- 4 and will get new cam chains before going forward.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: vwaudiguy on March 05, 2017, 07:27:14 PM
Are you popping the sprockets off the cams?


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: AARDQ on March 05, 2017, 08:39:05 PM
Were the heads shaved?


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 06, 2017, 06:20:42 AM
Yea crank pin in, pop cam pulley, grab and turn cam, tighten pulley.

Heads were decked but within Bentley spec.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 07, 2017, 06:39:01 PM
Alright. New chains installed, and look good using the crank lock pin and bar.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/oishisakana/093atlast_zpsmsg5e5jx.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/oishisakana/media/093atlast_zpsmsg5e5jx.jpg.html)

unsure if LTFT will be corrected but hopeful.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 08, 2017, 09:19:21 PM
cool timing is nice and set and not moving, after about 30 miles it moved to -2 -2 on each bank and has settled there.

Fuel trims are still ~4% off between banks. getting frustrated. Might take it some where with a smoke tester as I'm worried maybe the one i built is not up to snuff. If anyone has any other ideas, I'd appreciate.


Title: Re: I need help, bank fuel trims off please help me trouble shoot
Post by: spacecadet on March 10, 2017, 05:33:31 PM
my return fuel line was pinched. fixed and trims are now within spec.

stupidity tax