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Technical => Data Logging => Topic started by: Pr3muToS on April 26, 2018, 02:03:58 AM



Title: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on April 26, 2018, 02:03:58 AM
Hey,

anybody knows a logger (instead of vcds) to log correctly Simos12/18 engines?

In VCDS i dont get the variables i need. Like boost target, actual, actuator position, PUT, ect ect..

I see JB4, Cobb and Meastro got high speed logger for this, but isnt there another "open" solution available? Any ideas?

Thanks
BR Patrick


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: gt-innovation on April 26, 2018, 06:45:05 AM
Hex Net V2 ?


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on April 26, 2018, 02:55:01 PM
wahts the difference to vcds hex-can , its faster?`

see here, than you know what i mean. Cobb, JB4, Meastro got highspeed logger in their flashing tools, with all needed values. Cant find the most important in vcds..

https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PRS/pages/143753246/Volkswagen+Mk7+Tuning+Guide

https://drivetribe.com/p/datalogging-part-i-cOsyc_klRqGESmuCiQTplw?iid=NUcQsrOPTU-CU4Hqt7vOaA
https://drivetribe.com/p/datalogging-part-iii-boost-BJ8Z30jKQD6j45c3rvY4cw?iid=LlC5Ic8ERNetPLe6i_G7lw


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: bobbyz0r on April 26, 2018, 07:46:31 PM
HEX-CAN is perfectly fine for MK7. You're probably looking for the wrong names of the variables. Boost = Charge air pressure, etc..

Only problems I have with VCDS logging is limit of variables which can be logged at a usable sample rate, as well MAF diag limit of 1389 mg/stk.


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on April 27, 2018, 12:42:40 AM
Max PUT from Turbo  - Protection Maximum pressure upstream throttle request from the ECU for turbo protection, from turbo protection folder.
Maximum Torque at Clutch - Maximum torque request at clutch from the maximum torque tables.
Maximum Turbo Speed Set Point - Maximum turbo speed modeled for turbo protection.
Pressure Upstream Throttle - Calculated pressure upstream throttle for boost control system.
PUT Set Point - Final pressure request after compensations.
Rail Pressure Actual - Fuel rail pressure.
Rail Pressure Set Point - Actual fuel pressure request.
Torque (Actual) - Calculated current torque output.
Torque Maximum Clutch - Calculated maximum torque derived from torque tables.
Torque Maximum Engine - Calculated maximum torque derived from torque tables.
Torque Reference Maximum -  Calculated maximum torque.
Torque Reference - Calculated modeled torque.
TPS Set Point - Throttle position set point.
TPS Throttle position sensor data.
Turbine Actuator Final Value - WGDC actuator position result after PID correction.
Turbo Shaft Speed - Modeled turbo shaft speed from lookup tables.
Valve Lift State Valve High lift position (1= High lift 0= Normal)
Wastegate Mass Flow Set Point - Mass air flow set point for turbine actuator position calculation.



looking for these and cant find some important of them in HEX v2... checked 2-3 times, aint blind, but dunno
next problem is, iam limited in the amount of channels to log, that another reason, if anyone knows another software/logger ect.

br


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: gt-innovation on April 27, 2018, 01:27:05 AM
Max PUT from Turbo  - Protection Maximum pressure upstream throttle request from the ECU for turbo protection, from turbo protection folder.
Maximum Torque at Clutch - Maximum torque request at clutch from the maximum torque tables.
Maximum Turbo Speed Set Point - Maximum turbo speed modeled for turbo protection.
Pressure Upstream Throttle - Calculated pressure upstream throttle for boost control system.
PUT Set Point - Final pressure request after compensations.
Rail Pressure Actual - Fuel rail pressure.
Rail Pressure Set Point - Actual fuel pressure request.
Torque (Actual) - Calculated current torque output.
Torque Maximum Clutch - Calculated maximum torque derived from torque tables.
Torque Maximum Engine - Calculated maximum torque derived from torque tables.
Torque Reference Maximum -  Calculated maximum torque.
Torque Reference - Calculated modeled torque.
TPS Set Point - Throttle position set point.
TPS Throttle position sensor data.
Turbine Actuator Final Value - WGDC actuator position result after PID correction.
Turbo Shaft Speed - Modeled turbo shaft speed from lookup tables.
Valve Lift State Valve High lift position (1= High lift 0= Normal)
Wastegate Mass Flow Set Point - Mass air flow set point for turbine actuator position calculation.



looking for these and cant find some important of them in HEX v2... checked 2-3 times, aint blind, but dunno
next problem is, iam limited in the amount of channels to log, that another reason, if anyone knows another software/logger ect.

br

 https://vector.com/vi_can_solutions_en.html

The next solutions cost a lot ..


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on April 27, 2018, 02:30:20 AM
we had diagra, but couldnt work with that either, wasnt able to load A2L in Diagra X  cuz the formation of the file was not DIAGRA standart, in Diagra D i could load the A2L, but couldnt log, because the logging function for VAG is disabled if you dont got a VAG OEM clearance. (we only got this for BMW, to be able to buy the software)

if cobb and any other handflash tools are able to log, there must be anything without spending again 4-5k of money.. mhmm


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: prj on April 27, 2018, 05:49:43 AM
You must patch the ECU to allow memory reading without fancy handshakes.
And have a tool that will read memory. And have a matching a2l for your file or define stuff yourself.


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on April 30, 2018, 01:34:44 AM
You must patch the ECU to allow memory reading without fancy handshakes.
And have a tool that will read memory. And have a matching a2l for your file or define stuff yourself.

you dont need to patch the ecu for beeing read with Diagra D or Diagra X, that will read memory, its engineered for this..
and we have matching conti a2ls, also the Seed&Key.dll , which is need for "login" to enable reading. That doesnt help,
if the Diagra Software is disabled, not beeing verified as VAG OEM. BMW and other stuff, no problem to log.

https://www.rac.de/en/automotive-products/software/diagnostics/diagra-d/


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: prj on April 30, 2018, 02:34:15 AM
Read the entirety of my sentence before replying.
I told you it needs patching to read ram without seed key auth.


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on May 02, 2018, 01:10:21 AM
Read the entirety of my sentence before replying.
I told you it needs patching to read ram without seed key auth.

i dont get, that you want to say that with fancy handshakes..


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: IamwhoIam on May 02, 2018, 02:48:57 AM
Diagra CANNOT log RAM on a simos that's not patched specifically for it, what don't you get?


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on May 02, 2018, 01:47:28 PM
Diagra CANNOT log RAM on a simos that's not patched specifically for it, what don't you get?

it can...


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: IamwhoIam on May 02, 2018, 01:51:48 PM
LOL ok then, it's funny because I have Diagra and the only way I can log RAM is if the ECU is either:

-a native DEV ECU
-an ETK ECU
-a production ECU patched for RAM logging

I own all 3 of them, if you run a bone stock production ECU, you can't log SHIT in read memory by address mode.

Have fun, we could argue another 2 or 3 weeks about this, I am right and you are wrong. End of the story. Prj is right too, because he has a good source for his infos too.


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Rick on May 04, 2018, 03:24:42 AM
it can...

In that case why didn't it work for you!


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Pr3muToS on October 10, 2018, 01:52:37 AM
because i have a friend which is working @ audi prototype engineering, and they work with Diagra ect too.

on a free saturday he came to me with his system and VAG Diagra license, he was able to log our cars with the provided odx.

So it cant be 100% correct what you guys telling. Also RAC told me VAG OEM versions, got other licenses, there is no need to get a security access on bosch, or specified patches,  seedkey .dll files for simos types to get in.

Also RAC did support Simos A2L filetyp in DIAGRA X first this year, after we and some others complained about the not standart a2l format. There was a update released this spring, after analyzing our logs from testing the last few month.




Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: prj on October 10, 2018, 03:11:37 AM
Probably log in mode 22, not in mode 23.
Mode 23 rejects access if ECU is not dev - maybe there is some secret handshake involved which allows it to pass, but I need to patch ECU, else it simply says the request is invalid. Mode 22 you can log with VCDS too.


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: NBR on October 11, 2018, 01:25:46 AM
This is something I've also been very interested in. I'm sure if someone created a proper logging tool for the Mk7 (high speed and logs the variables needed for tuning) they would sell plenty. But it seems from what prj said there's more to it. I'd love to be able to log the variables in the axes to the wastegate maps, and the turbo modelling variables, all which Cobb can do.


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: Time 4 Rebuild on October 12, 2018, 11:00:08 AM
It would be interesting to see if Diagra actaully logged over CCP or is it just using readDataByIdentifier in a tight loop.  Also couldn't Cobb add some variables to the identifier table to log some extra variables? 


Title: Re: Simos MK7 logging
Post by: prj on October 15, 2018, 12:58:21 AM
readDataByIdentifier is 22.

Diagra does 23.