NefMoto

Noob Zone => Noob Questions => Topic started by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 04:30:38 PM



Title: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 04:30:38 PM
Hi ! In my way to understand how kfldimx and kfldrl works ,(to understand and learn how to play with boost ) i thinked dimx axis is lde but no ! Is plsorl_w which i dont know what means and drl axis is ldtvr_w,someone can explain in simple sentences what plsorl and ldtvr is ?


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on January 03, 2019, 04:47:35 PM
Hi ! In my way to understand how kfldimx and kfldrl works ,(to understand and learn how to play with boost ) i thinked dimx axis is lde but no ! Is plsorl_w which i dont know what means and drl axis is ldtvr_w,someone can explain in simple sentences what plsorl and ldtvr is ?

Did you bother to read either the FR OR the tuning wiki page?

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Boost_PID

Quote
KFLDIMX - LDR I-Regulator limit. The x-axis input is relative requested pressure (plsolr_w) in hPa (same as mBar), which, in the M-Box, is "requested absolute pressure (plsol_w)" - "ambient pressure (pu_w)".

Quote
KFLDRL - Map for linearization of boost pressure = f(TV). This is the post-PID waste-gate duty correction table. The result of the PID (ldtvr_w) is the input to this map. The actual DC (ldtv) is the output of this map. All of the results of the PID end up in this table to be linearized. That is to say, if you have a flat DC going into KFLDRL (ldtvr_w), the result should be a flat actual boost (most likely requiring a rising ldtv, and thus a rising KFLDRL for a given input ldtvr_w). Calibrating this correctly is time consuming, but worth the effort.[30]

Why did I bother if nobody is going to read it :/



Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 04:59:32 PM
Did you bother to read either the FR OR the tuning wiki page?

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Boost_PID

Why did I bother if nobody is going to read it :/


oh fuck .... was a big question and i thinked is more harder and i will not find an answare in s4..... i was so wrong ! Sorry and thank you !


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 05:18:02 PM
Did you bother to read either the FR OR the tuning wiki page?

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Boost_PID

Why did I bother if nobody is going to read it :/


and another big question for me, i understood the imx map axis is plsolr (boost pressure ) and i think the output of this map is wgdc ! let’s say i will want to run 1300 mbar boost pressure , i need to scale the axis to 1300 mbar ,and the numbers will be 99 (this means 99%wgdc ! Ok until there ,but how ecu will open wg to dont make overboost ?


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on January 03, 2019, 05:20:32 PM
IMX is only the I component limiter. It is not the actual final pre-lin (not post-lin) DC.

Research PIDs. They are beyond the scope of this forum (and the s4 tuning wiki page for that matter).

BTW there is zero reason to scale the IMX axis unless you are using IMX for pre-control and/or very high boost application.


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 05:26:24 PM
IMX is only the I component limiter. It is not the actual final pre-lin (not post-lin) DC.

Research PIDs. They are beyond the scope of this forum (and the s4 tuning wiki page for that matter).

BTW there is zero reason to scale the IMX axis unless you are using IMX for pre-control and/or very high boost application.
i dont run on very high boost ,i just wanted to understand how wgdc is working ,how is it calculated and if i can incerease boost without ldrxnf irl iop(just from n75maps )


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on January 03, 2019, 05:28:47 PM
i dont run on very high boost ,i just wanted to understand how wgdc is working ,how is it calculated
That would be via LDRPID

Quote
if i can incerease boost without ldrxnf irl iop(just from n75maps )

No. There is zero reason to even bother thinking that. Get req boost where you want it. Tune the PID so actual matches req. It isn't hard, especially with stock hardware.


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 05:36:52 PM

No. There is zero reason to even bother thinking that. Get req boost where you want it. Tune the PID so actual matches req. It isn't hard, especially with stock hardware.
i think i will run on an harder wg spring , and becouse i.m a begginer ,i want to understand how to play with whdc how ecu will manage it after req meet actual boost ,i think this is a map with pressure mbar and it output is wgdc ,and snother problem is how ecu will manage it when actual is lower than requested boost ....


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on January 03, 2019, 05:39:28 PM
i think i will run on an harder wg spring

I have no idea what problem you think that will solve.

If anything, it will make tuning part throttle a huge pain in the ass, and for no real gain elsewhere.

Quote
I want to understand how to play with whdc how ecu will manage it after req meet actual boost ,i think this is a map with pressure mbar and it output is wgdc ,and snother problem is how ecu will manage it when actual is lower than requested boost ....

Not sure how many more times you have to be told that that is what a PID does.


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 05:41:27 PM
I have no idea what problem you think that will solve.

If anything, it will make tuning part throttle a huge pain in the ass, and for no real gain elsewhere.

Not sure how many more times you have to be told that that is what a PID does.
car is used only for dragracing !


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on January 03, 2019, 05:43:12 PM
car is used only for dragracing !

Not sure how that is relevant. Are you saying that is why you want to run a stiffer spring (because part throttle doesn't matter), or so that you can avoid learning about PIDs?

Either way

1) don't run a stiffer spring than you need (and from your logs, there is NOTHING to indicate you need a stiffer wg spring)
2) you should learn how PIDs work


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 05:45:28 PM
IMX is only the I component limiter. It is not the actual final pre-lin (not post-lin) DC.

which is the map for pre lin wgdc ?


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on January 03, 2019, 05:46:23 PM
which is the map for pre lin wgdc ?

That question has no meaning.


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on January 03, 2019, 05:47:41 PM
You should be asking why IMX dominates all other PID outputs....


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on January 03, 2019, 05:48:39 PM
2) you should learn how PIDs work
you’re so right ,and i will start to do it,i wish i will found all the answare for my questions! And yes ,for mee dont metter the part throttle !


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on February 11, 2019, 11:15:02 AM

2) you should learn how PIDs work
i readed about PID but i dont find anything about LDR! What ldr means and where i can read and learn about what this is ! Thank you


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on February 11, 2019, 11:17:07 AM
LDRPID is the boost pid (big fucking surprise) in ME

req boost is the set point, actual boost is the process variable.

I don't understand what you are asking.


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on February 11, 2019, 11:12:24 PM
Hi ,in my way to learn about pid and how it works ,i started to read and leanr from wiki, but i dont find anything to learn about ldr ! What ldr is and how it works ,if someone can explain me or give me a link from where i can read ! Thank you in advance !


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on February 11, 2019, 11:49:54 PM
Why did you start another topic?

LDR = ladedruck regulation (boost pressure regulation).

LDRPID is... drumroll... the LDR PID.

What do you want to know?


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on February 12, 2019, 04:34:08 AM
Why did you start another topic?

LDR = ladedruck regulation (boost pressure regulation).

LDRPID is... drumroll... the LDR PID.

What do you want to know?
first thank you very much ,i didnt know what LDR is ! about the pid i readed ,but i didnt know the ldr is (=boost pressure regulation ) ,so lde is boost pressure error ! Now everything  make sense !


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on February 12, 2019, 06:00:11 AM
And correct me if i’m wrong please ,kfldimx is an wgdc gap,this is the maximum wgdc allowed ?


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on February 12, 2019, 09:58:13 AM
No, it that is the I limiter to prevent integrator windup.


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on February 12, 2019, 11:12:00 AM
Not an exact gap of n75 ,but if i will write kfldimx with 50 all values ,my wgdc before  lin will not exceed this value ,right ?


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: nyet on February 12, 2019, 11:14:45 AM
No. For the third time, it is the I limiter. There are still two other components, AND there is the I limiter adaptation.

Please study PIDs again.


Title: Re: Dimx and drl understand
Post by: RSC on February 13, 2019, 07:28:49 AM
No. For the third time, it is the I limiter. There are still two other components, AND there is the I limiter adaptation.

Please study PIDs again.
so ,if i write kfldimx 90 all values ,in that area the I limiter wil be used max 90%