NefMoto

Hello,

so after a year or so I finally gave up an got a wideband turbo ecu to with my setup 4B0 906 018 CG from an audi a4 1.8t, tired of searching for loads of maps and stuff and frankly not worth the time invested to make the conversion run( dont get me wrong its running and quite decent but if you have a chance to go for a turbo ecu in same engine gen, 100% do it, for anyone that wants do similar stuff). Now I know all about the wires and stuff needs to be added, but also have to wire in an n75 and a MAP.

On atmo ecu the powerstage(eskonf) for intake manifold changeover is the same as N75 on turbo ecu, so this means the wiring and pinout should be the same.

The MAP needs ground, signal to pin 101 , and power from hall sender pin 1 ( thats how I see it on some 1.8T wiring diags) right?

Now another issue includes the coils. The atmo ecu runs wasted spark coils , 2 grouped on cylinder 3 and 4 and 2 singles on cyl 1 and 2, so to my knowledge there is only 2 coil stages, this could be an issue with wiring but I cant find much info about it ( like anything with atmo ecu lolz), so some modification might be necessary too.

Third thing is that , what maps are needed to change for compression ratio change( apart from timing maps and whole torque stuff), since I am running 10.3 CR pistons as opposed to 9.5 ( I'll be swapping in some AEB pistons and rods later, cause its winter now, and working on car is meh) and maybe knock sensor differences ( ill check for part nr difference in etka atleast) or maps such as KFPBRK etc, or is this a waste of time and adaptions take "care of it anyway"?


Thank you!

if its immo2 you only need your SKC from cluster ( no PIN in immo2 eprom )

But as I know the wideband ecus from a4 b5 /a6 c5 1.8t and later ones are always immo3

Yes.


Maybe if some has 4b0906018cg 0001 eeprom read can check, if not I'll just read mine. you never know with VAG legoing stuff around.

So, today I swapped the ecu in. VCDS works fine reads ecu everything. As for eeprom read:

I tried with Vag commander 2.5, vag eeprom programmer and ArgDubs tool. None of them reads the eeprom in obd, doesnt matter what I did. Commander and Eeprom programmer get timeout, and Argdubs tool says error 0x50501 and 0x50001 if I set baud to 9600.

The only thing I could read was my cluster dump which I'll post in the dump sections soon, but I found out I might actually have an immo3 cluster even though the VIN ID is missing / blank ( immo3 according to eeprom programmer) and EepromTool cant parse it either, only SKC. ( could be partial read maybe ).

So its either bootmode or I'll try adapting the immo( but then again I need the pins for that which I dont have).

Is that 512 kb or 1024 kb ECU?
Only newer ECU eeprom can be read tru OBD.

And one hint, don't write with CAN comander. It doesent write eeprom good

Its a wideband 1024kb.. It should be able to read thru OBD either way, but it does not. I'll try with my original (current ecu) see if I can read it tommorow, hopefully needed the car today, so had to assemble it.

you can read it in bootmode regarless in the car too open the ecu and set it up to ground the boot pin. disconnect the battery and have the key in the run position. have your laptop all set up connected to the port on the car ready to go. while grounding the pin hook up the battery. continue to hold the ground wire for 5 seconds or so and youll be in bootmode. read or write as you need

Seems like that will be the case.

Right, took ecu apart and tried bootmoding. Battery negative off, key on , ground pin 24 ( tried both on ecu itself and onto chassis), battery negative on, take ground off 5-10 seconds later. EPC light off - Cannot read eeprom... Argdubs tool says no ecu response, VAG eeprom prog same Rx time out. Getting quite annoying now.

Whats seems to be the issue? Can that be 000 resistor (if it even exists) causing issues?

Also got some ME 7.5 NA vs turbo ecu photo differences, which I'll post later on.

You need to leave the key on in the ignition too. So when you hook up the battery the ecu istantly powers up

Yes I did, key is on all times ( obviously) another thing: My old ecu actually has a Siemens branded cpu as opposed to this Infineon new style me 7.5, which seems to have caused some issues on the forum for some members ( according to quick search).

You can't get in boot mode if pin 121 have power.
Remove ECM relay that power pin 121

Just tried that , remove ECU supply relay, same thing no bueno, no ecu response.

Just tried with my na ECU , boot into bootmode, get the same error, no ecu response and rx timeout. Tried both with ECU relay in place, ECU relay taken out, ground to chassis etc.

Cant seem to be able to do anything when they are in bootmode, epc light is always off so I know its not in normal mode( MPPS does the same thing when flashing over obd). Starting to think this could be a wiring issue, I dont think it has something to do with the cable since it does everything else fine that a dumb kline ftdi cable does. Thats it for today I think.... Not a great start.

What could be the issue?

Not very knowledgeable of VAG cars.
But i do know that they have their immo on the K-Line, others have a seperate connection.
Something like that can spit into bootmode comms.

So pull the Cluster fuse and try again.

yep, but guess what :D I tried it too like 2 times.. I'll try more tommorow I guess since I dont know what else to try. MPPS sometimes complains about it too through obd , but sometimes does not, its weird...

I always used galletto, works with any dumb KKL cable but you will need to change the serial of the cable.
google: galletto mprog or so

yeah I'll guess I'll try and use the galletto with my cable serial mod. Keep in mind my blue cable has a ch340 chip not FTDI, but it works as it should with anything else , just doesnt have the ID feature of the ftdi chips.


EDIT: Is Argdubs tool programmed to use ftdi drivers/ idchip ? If so could be an issue. AFAIK there is no source available right?

Another day, another unsuccessful one.


So I tried with Galletto at first. First issue I ran into is that Mprog does not work with ch340 cable/drivers, anyway as I said before it doesnt have id chip/serial ( is is 0000000) only CH340B has builtin eeprom for things like that. So I modified Galletto exe serial to 000000 -  does not work, get interface not found error, because Galletto is written to use ftdi drivers too... ( Galletto source available ?)

After that I tried with my VAGCOM cable which has some ftdi looking chips but they are unmarked , and they never worked for me before ( neither for ME7 logger or anything) but I decided to give a try anyway, finally installing the drivers with vcp enabled.

Tried Argdubs tool with it, this time getting No echo from cable ( meaning most likely it doesnt work at all vs no ecu response with blue ch340 cable).

...

Any ideas? Try holding ground on pin while read or something? Anyway "exclusive" pictures below comparing ME 7.5 naturally aspirated ecu vs turbo wideband.

(https://i.imgur.com/zVwCtAe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/80Jas8M.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jkDlePr.jpg)

Some differences:
- Atmospheric is missing one MOS : BUK108-50DL part number is the same on both
- missing chip near BUK's : 089 AD45932 030
- Bosch chip bottom left corner : Bosch 30343 vs 30340 on Turbo
- Bosch chip missing near connector: Bosch 30345
- D1: Motorola MC33186DH1 H bridge driver vs Bosch 30348 on Turbo
- D2: Bosch 30382 vs Bosch 30381 on Turbo
- D3: Bosch 30403 vs Bosch 30344 on Turbo
- Siemens branded CPU vs Infineon on Turbo
- Flash chip
etc.

The NEC is the same on both.

this is documented extremely well and works fine. the galletto exe just has to be patched with the vcds S/N

the S/N stuff is ftdi specific, which is why galletto will only work with ftdi cables, iirc.

Why don't you simply get FTDI cable and resolve all your problems.
BDW. That siemens based ECU is same as 512 kb turbo ECU,
That ME 7.5 is same as any other 1024 kb ECU

Well I already have 3 cables : blue kkl ch340, Vagcom and MPPS I would've liked cutting down on costs, as it gonna quite expensive as it is for a simple convesion, since I have to get another lsu4.2, a map and n75 too, thankfully I already have 4 COP coils.

Also @nyet, yes as I wrote that is the main difference of the CH vs FTDI, it has no serial or unique ID at all( unless its CH340B), so anything that references idchip of the FTDI cables will not work. Now  I dont know if ArgDubs tool does this or not, but my VAGcom with vcp gets a completely different response than the ch chip cable. Also this cable ONLY works with me7logger using the 0x00 connection, it doesnt work with 01 or 11 either which is what VAG commander uses, btw when I try to read with VAG commander I can hear the relay/cluster clicking just like when I write with MPPS thru obd ( more than 50 times now) so I am thinking it might be a combined chassis wiring issue too.

Gonna try to fu*k around with it tommorow more different option if not I'll try shorting the Kline directly to the ECU , as in default form in B5 it passes through the cluster( as fluke mentioned too).
If that doesnt work guess I'll order a galletto cable.

You're on here wasting time for how many years?

And you still don't have a 4$ FTDI cable.

FML.

Well, it seems I resolved the immo issue. I got a 018CH bin and crossflashed straight through OBD without bootmode with MPPS. VCDS reports everything is good. Onto the rest of the stuff.

ive only tried telling you to do that for how long?? ;)

Kinda like trying to solder a amateur blink led circuit with a lighter for 3 years and complaining about burned leds.  ;D

The CH340 are super brutal crap, they might work for super crap but even on standard baudrates they are often way outside of the tolerances...

Maybe but these 3 cables have satisfied me so far , only now I had issues. But yes Ill get a galletto too (even though MPPS can do bootmode recovery either way) just to complete the collection.

For now I have to procure a n75, a map and another lsu 4.2 then do some wiring magic with ignition coil/wideband etc.

So to revive this thread....

Back last year fall I bought some new parts for the car, such as new exhaust pipes, new t3 manifold, cai etc to put on and improve the current engine bay. However in that same month I started a job, which requires me to work every day Monday-Sunday. Then I got some more parts in February to finally put on the car , so I thought  ;D

Because I use the car daily I couldnt afford more than 3-4 hours downtime each day and specially could not start jobs which requires taking apart a lot of things , because I wont be taking the car apart and putting it back every day, so ever since then I got those 2 boxes of parts sitting in the house... Eventually I got fed up with this and bought a an Audi B4 with LPG in March as a replacement/ 2nd car , so I can have downtime with the B5.

Well I got it home fine etc, and went to start it later on that day and it died and never restarted... well turned out to be no spark so immidietly bought new coil and performing bentley stuff and checking absolutely everything. Eventually I replaced everything including ECU , sparkplug cables , distributor etc. but nothing was fixing it , I never came across something like this. So now in September, redid every bentley check and checked every single wire, the signal was there but there was no spark so I bit the bullet and bought a new coil again and guess what it works... So I wasted half a year coz a bad NEW coil, safe to say I am never buying Magnetti Marelli parts ever again, also first experience with Digifant wasnt nice either.

So now I am getting the B4 ready for inspection and making sure it drives fine so I can finally start the massive jobs I have to do.
Going to pickup a tfsi pierburg n75 too, MAP is gonna be from Bosch motorsport( already calculated dsgrad, will post later obviously) and I already have the LSU's. I am wondering if anybody used these n75's in their builds and some specs like spring rate and orifice size would be nice too :P - no matter though car gonna be running feed forward, we'll see.

Should post some more in the new few days/ weeks.

ive used the on k04-064 to 1.8t conversions. they work without issue, its not the same rate of bleed off but considering youll need to make the pid tables from scratch really shouldnt be too much of an issue

Guessing you meant the n75. ( 06F906283F ) yeah I just ordered it along with some misc parts.
Lets see if I can get the b4 done for next week for inspection, then we'll go from there.

yah sorry the n75.

So recently got the B4 to pass inspection which means I'll start tearing down the b5 sometime soon.

Got the pierpurg tfsi n75 along with some other parts ready to go, bought some more wiring, connectors ( automotive-connectors.com, highly recommended) for all the wiring job I'll have to do.
Still have to get the map and flange made for it but shouldnt take too long. Will update more when I actually get into it.

So after half a year+ its time to update this and (hopefully) keep it updated for history if somebody wants to do the same :) Got the B4 fixed up and running as backup car so that means I can finally have the downtime needed with the project car  :o after years of dailying every single day.


So the reason for the long delay is that the wiring harness on these cars/ecus is just a tiny bit more work than just converting the o2 to wideband, simply didnt have the time for the downtime for them and the other required harness changes.

The atmospheric me7.5 runs on wasted spark coil, this means you dont have the other 2 signal wires coming from the ECU for the single COP's on turbo cars,so you gotta add them like the wideband wires.
Pins that you need add are : 94 and 95. The other two, 102 and 103 you can reuse from original harness, aswell as the power which comes from ECU relay and ground too coupled on all coils.

The other thing is the MAP sensor, the wiring for this simply does not exist. You are required to add the signal wire to pin 101, voltage is shared between hall sensor pin 1 and they both go to ecu pin 98, ground is ground.

N75 wiring poses no issues because the factory harness uses these pins(output) as intake manifold switchover ( on many other atmo engines in VAG). Personally will require to switch to a new type connector for the tfsi n75.

And thats about it, wideband wiring has been detailed many times but there can be some differences in pinouts / pin numbering on some ecus, will mention them later on.

Success!

Started up the car today with wideband turbo ecu and COP conversion from wasted spark atmo. If anyone requires it the COP trigger wire pinout is :

Coil 1 - pin 102
Coil 2 - pin 95
Coil 3 - pin 103
Coil 4 - pin 94

Next up is the MAP and the wideband extra wires.

At the moment the 018CG ecu has been crossflashed to 018CH so I could start it up without bothering with IMMO, once its off will be crossflashed to 018CA because of full damos. Ofcourse there are some DTC's which are going to get fixed , such as SAI and LDP and CAN missing message, ABS /esp stuff, rear O2 etc.
However there is one that I forgot about , the N249. At the moment and the past years I have been running with the DV in the dbc stlye, diaphragm runs to manifold directly.

There is a bit of conflicting info about the n249 on here. Back then the argument was that it helped open the dv's with the stiff springs such as 710N, but few years later found posts to remove it and fit 710P which seems to work without fine n249. Ofcourse I dont have a n249 atm nor I had plans to get one. DV is an aftermarket el cheapo 710p copy but as for which spec they built it to , I dont know but it worked fine so far, but I did notice some compressor stall however over the months.

What are the thoughts on N249 in 2021 with the 710P and other DVs.

So most of the hardware stuff is done 99% so I could start actually calibrating stuff. I started with setting injectors up, deleting stuff that I dont have on the car, SAI, rear o2 etc..
Also a thing, due to space reasons the inital tuning will have to be done for alpha N, yes bear with me here, SD might come later on but I simply cant fit a maf reliably due to manifold / turbo location, block location and frontend location, I might not even be able to a fit a proper filter on... anyway.

So I copied the TB maps, WDK and MSN from the original non turbo bin/ original tb. What I noticed is that the car is running pig rich, get the logger out and see the load/msdk_w is mega high... So since I got the headlights removed atm, I fitted the MAF back on with copied scaling ofcourse.

With that I got pretty good AFR on idle/stfts, but when I check msdk_w vs maf, msdk is higher by about 2.5 times, this makes the can 'run' at like 9 AFR without the MAF unplugged ofcourse. Tried changing wdkugdn for now on idle and it does not change a thing both downwards and upwards(and why would it), also tried MSLG from non turbo bin, with basically no change.
edit: I'll log msndk_w tommorow to see if the correction happens with the msdk_w path or just simply the value is too high from before-wdk/ugdn path.
 Any thoughts? Log attached in zip because cant upload directly , 'too long to upload'.

After several logs I came to the conclusion that WDK path is just too high ,loggin multiple values msndk(without klaf) msdk etc. Turned on adaption too changes msdk to measured using a factor for fpvdk which brings the two much closer however it does not matter because it resets once the e_lm is set.

So whos in the right here  ;D WDK 'should' not be tuned however the values simply do not work with the setup, I am unsure if there was some special application for atmospheric calibration that got baked in here or not but for now I have brought the idle afr/trims to sane levels using KFLF. Has anyone actually checked if msdk matches on idle,on a stock car? It should since it runs like crap if the MAF were ever to fail.
I suppose I need to mess around with KFURL and co(which might cause load issues on wot later on, will see) , if wdk is not to be changed (however many still modify these on alpha n fallback).