NefMoto

well i figured id start this here.. the car is "done" after many hiccups over the past year having to do with sub par products/customer service.

the only thing left after this 2 year long fiasco is tuning this thing.. which will probably take me another 2 years as im learining.... good thing i have some of the best tuners around me daily i can pick at for advice. as well as this gem of a forum with its endless amount of info.

here she is.

old motor.. stock 2.7 AWE ots stage 3... not bad.. went low 12s at 117

(http://imageshack.us/a/img85/7632/img6057.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2010-01-10

the new digs..
3.0L crank
VAST stroker internals with upgraded ARP rod bolts
Raceware studs everywhere.
ported 2.8L heads, 1mm oversized intake valves, supertech exhaust valves
asp GT28RS kit modified for divorced wastegate dumps.
custom 2-1 FMIC into a hemi TB and ported RS4 manifold.
EV14 95lb injectosr at 4bar
034 rails
90mm MAF elbow
2.25 to 3.5 inch custom y pipe
full -8 fuel system using a surge tank and aeromotive a1000 pump
Car was also semi widebody'd and resprayed as well as the engine bay was cleaned up and "shaved"



(http://imageshack.us/a/img819/9929/76407532380150759200802.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2010-11-17
(http://imageshack.us/a/img295/8272/dscn0717m.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2010-10-28
(http://imageshack.us/a/img268/5024/imag0030ji.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2011-02-19
(http://imageshack.us/a/img831/3155/imag0011xz.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2011-02-15
(http://imageshack.us/a/img13/7408/imag0009w.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2011-02-15
(http://imageshack.us/a/img11/661/imag0008n.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2011-02-15
(http://imageshack.us/a/img706/2833/imag0218rz.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2011-04-03
(http://imageshack.us/a/img853/310/gtbuild035.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2011-08-28
(http://imageshack.us/a/img215/1121/imag1041.jpg)
By jdmej195 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmej195) at 2012-02-05
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7028/6437987753_c2becf191d_z.jpg)


My first "tune" i had on the car was just basically a base/breakin mafless tune done by Mike @ vast.. which ran very well for such a custom setup on only a couple revisions.. made nearly 400whp at 13psi.

now as most of you know.. VAST is no longer.. so im going to try and take the tune on by myself...

im currently at this point... and its going ok.. but i kind of want to start from scratch..

im using Snow Troopers single/bigturbo file as a base...

did some error code removal as im not running evap,n249, n75,egts rear o2s etc.....
also scaled for my 90mm maf by using tonys maf scaling from his 85mm file and scaling it up a little bit for my 90mm..
also have changed krkte and tvub... starting with a theoretical value of ~.31 for krkte which ended up going up to .47 after a few logs.
a few other minor things were done.. but i really need to do some more logging while driving... it runs ok as of now (idle and part throttle) but as soon as you hit any sort of boost/med-high load. the car likes to run lean.. so im currently learning on how to deal with that. but i think i really need to dial in my injectors/MAF before i get in depth with anything else.

figured id post this thread though considering its not the most standard build and i hope to help others/get some insight on tuning this thing.

Good work on that car, have fun with it  ;D

Oh dude I have a way better file for you to run!  That old one was pretty rough.

yea?  would you mind if i tried it out..


i got this file running ok now in boost by tweaking kfkhfm a little on the rich side (11.1ish) and im only on 15psi right now.. but now my idle is rich for some reason 12-13:1  i didnt mess with any the idle areas when i was tweaking that table.. they are all still at 1.  so i dont know what the deal is with that..

but either way id be interested to try out that file

Ok, this file must be gone through for your application.  Off the top of my head it has o2 sensor stuff turned off , even primary for emulation with a wideband.  Its also bosch maf and I am not sure what you run.  I honestly hope you will go through it map by map to cross check what you are currently running with success vs this.  Its a base for any BAT, yet it was running on my car at one point, just be careful.  I have turned some things on and off, fuel strategy is great if your maf is scaled properly, VVT is setup for big turbo and so on.  oh and ARMD is pulled under WOT.  Once you get this file dialed to your car there is no reason it shouldn't be an animal.  With race fuel it will be timing conservative, when that time comes i can help you with your timing maps for good fuel.

Thank you. I will go through it tonight and try to flash it .  I'll post my findigs when I do some logs

mixed this file with the file i was running before (because i had done the code deletes)  so i basically took all of the important maps and threw them on my old file..

basically it really doesnt run as well.. i know it needs some tweaking but first thing i noticed was that engine vacuum was sitting at -16 inhg and now with this tune they barely reach 13..i think it has to do with throttle maps?

and with all my same fueling/maf settings as far as constants... MAF scaling, krkte, tvub etc.. the car was OK(11.1-3:1)in boost.. and now its super lean @13 or so...

like i said im going to play around with it until i can get some solid WOT logs.  but this is just an update of the first trial

I know its a lot of work but you should do it the other way around, mod this file to have your old stuff.  If you send me your old file I can find time this weekend to do a mix.  There is a lot going on and maybe you missed some things.


Your maf might be underscaled, not getting into proper load ranges.  If load levels aren't reached the fueling won't work. 

It's also possible there is a bug or error in it as I hadn't gone through map by map.

i just did this^ i thought the same myself... im going to flash it tonight and hopefully tomorrow i can get some good logs from it.

im having a hard time believing that there isnt something wrong with my fueling.. im running 1000ccs at 4bar and the car runs best at around .047x krkte which ,to me.. seems so far off from the calculated .031xxx.. i know there is a lot to do still.. but from a learning stand point.. what kind of other variables can change this value as far as tuning is concerned.

maf could possibly be off as well.. i havent really had a good enough situation to log this thing fully.. so ill get aroudn to that this weekend..

and there is just soo much going on with  my cars intake/charge plumbing(custom y pipe, single tial bov, 90mm maf open element etc).. and on top of it the 3.0L probably doesnt help with tuning.. it will take a while for me to learn these things.

I work at AMS and when the tuners arent super busy(never happens) i can probably pick their brains as well on some issues.. id like to get the car running well enough to justify throwing it on our dyno and seeing what i can do there.

also as far as the primary o2s.. are they defined in the standard map xdfs?  i cant seem to find a definitive parameter.. i dont want to screw up my new o2s  :)

Email me your file at jared@vlmspec.com and I will ensure your front o2s are setup normally.

The krkte further tells me your maf is reading low.  Had you tried running it maf unplugged.

sent you an email.

i did what you said and swapped the way i mixed the tunes and it runs worlds better. need to get a new laptop battery to log. but i have good vacuum now at idle and i can at least get into boost without worrying of a lean condition windowing my motor  :P

going to work on it some more today once i grab a battery for my laptop.

okay, there were a few o2 issues and it also had some other fueling bugs I noticed, calculated egt values were off also.

I scaled your maf up a little more, more inline with what i have seen big turbos wanting.  I may have over done it but on a 90mm you will have a ways before you go over the limit.

we need logs of your load values

thanks jared.

here is a log from today on the rev4 file.. its getting massive throttle cut. feels like crap in general occillates a lot in boost.


apologize for the ecux log. but for some reason my me7 logger didnt want to work at the wrong time.. so this was backup.

How much boost are you set at with the ebc?  Do you have cats?  When you say it occilates, what's it feel like?  All it could be doing since you have an ebc is dumping fuel to kill power and or cutting timing.

Basically all boost related triggers to cut throttle due to boost are turned off. 

Ecux logs are totally fine, I actually still use it more than me7l.  I will look at it in a sec.

Oh also your rev 4 had bts fueling coming on way early.  It probably going to a requested AFR of 9.99 mid pull.

holy crap... looking at the log.  there is some weirdness going on for sure.

I am going to dumb the file down a bit in a few areas in the interest of getting the thing stable and then we can hunt for power from there.

i will delete the previous posted rev_5 file. 

start here, but still need the info from above because even the log doesnt really tell me how much boost you are trying to run/

the oscillation is almost certainly timing, also plug your n75 in for now, even if its doing nothing.

is there any chance your wiring is getting interference? 

which wiring? MAF is rewired so that could be a possibility

i dont have an n75.. plug is gone as well.

boost is set at 20psi with the EBC oscillation feels just like the power curve is super wavy.. like its down 20hp then back up.. its a smoother oscillation if that makes sense.

Timing for sure, can see it in the log, but your boost isn't holding either.  The ebc for one reason or another isn't holding.

I may switch to twin solenoids and dual port. I'll see what I can figure out

Do you have an mbc you could throw in just to cut down on variables for now?

I.can easily just remove the ebc and run wg.. or I can def get an mbc

Did you fix his ARMD maps for WOT?  Nyet has seen this being bothersome in many, many applications...

I did, but then just reverted to stock for now to narrow down variables. At these boost levels he won't be hitting interventions yet.

I am concerned about the maf signals, I really hope you used a shielded and grounded wire.

yes the factory shielding is there on the signal wire.

im going to try and go on a drive tonight. we are busy at work so im staying late most of the week.. the car isnt exactly neighbor friendly when it gets later into the evening.

F MY LAPTOP.. only when im driving hte car  it fatal errors randomly with a blue screen and restarts..

i had a good log of 2 back to back 3rd gear pulls and i didnt have enough time to pull over and save them before it errored.


good news though.. the car seems to handle boost MUCH better.. the first pull i did was solid and felt pretty damn quick although its still rich 11:1.. the second pull i got some minor power loss which i only assume is again either throttle cut or timing.

car holds 21psi no problem on this boost controller and i havent changed anything.  going to try and get someone to come with me so they can save logs with the quickness.

another issue i saw which is nothing crazy.. is that its idling a bit rich.. 13.8:1 or so..

Are you running ME7logger?  Switch to it if not, it can solve your log-saving issue by design.

i was using it. until it decided to randomly not work one day.  so i had switched to ECUx as backup.

Nice, idle AFR will come after getting wot AFR locked down.  Your main wot fueling is knock based, asking for 11.8 with no knock down to 11.1 with CFs of 8.5

If it goes way rich towards the end of a pull its bts, but we only want that to happen in 4th-6th.

Logs at idle and part throttle will be helpful also, so I can see requested AFR.  I doubt it is requesting less than 14.7, maf might be reading high at idle or tvub could be whacked.

ok here are some logs... 3 different part throttle logs i took while driving around town.  and then one 3rd gear pull..



2nd the car rips without hesitation really.. but 3rd it still is down on power and oscillates.. going to  take  a look at the logs when i get a chance tonight.

Are logging misfires? Your RPM vs time is a mess. ECUxPlot can't make head or tail of it.

im going to try and get me7logger working again.

on these logs, dont do anything with them and its ok to have one long one with all of the data, i can find what i need.

something is wrong with the data.

even feel free to send the raw apr log file and i can convert to csv.  if you open and clean them up it can throw it all off.

i didnt touch the logs just converted them to csv... ill post up the originals.. i wonder what the issue is.

these are the same files but in standard ecux format

heres a me7logger log from today.. i feel like my RPM signal is screwed up for some reason.  that or its getting screwed up in logging... gauge shows fine but the rpm through the pull does not correlate to what my gauge shows. also data looks like its completely missing in all of my logs.. i don tknow what the issue could be.

can someone help me understand something.

im looking at log "part throttle 2"

and at time 136.65 seconds.. im looking at the injector duty cycle.. are those shown in percentages?  if so.. that seems way off.

i think i get whats going on.

when i display the logs in ECUx. does ecux calculate injector duty cycles based on pre set constants?

Yes. There are a fixed number of milliseconds in a minute :P

Everything looks completely normal regarding injector duty cycle.

What do you expect to happen when you lift at 5k?

Make proper logs from 2000 to 7000.

i didnt lift at 5k.. im having loggin issues where the data cuts out every few seconds.

i ordered a new cable. and will be trying that..

Ok. I guess it is interpolated then.

You need to sort your logging issues out though.

trying to.

nothing but battles with this car.

Now imagine that you have no time to work on your own car, and have battles with everyone else's.
Welcome to my world ;)

Don't worry, it's probably something simple, and the logging issues can be found by method of elimination anyway.

Prj are you me?  LOL

Yeah Ricky, I really want to help more but the log thing is killing it.  Priority number for your car.  You will find it, hopefully is just the cable.  If not try your hard drive protection settings, turn it off maybe.

first log with the new cable and updated settings on the laptop. still seems like data is odd/missing.

i drove around for 10-15 min.. did a solid 3rd gear pull as well. this log should some good info.


knock voltages seem pretty high for how rich it is.  I may try to pull the sensors off and re torque them.. i cant remember if they were actually torqued down correctly or snugged down or if i even installed them or someone else(engine builder).  also could the higher load timing areas be a little too aggressive causing the high cfs?

It is running mild timing. 

I see that.  I'll see what happens when I mess with the sensors

Approx how many variables are you trying to log simultaneously?

the ones shown in the log.  knock, timing, boost, load, fueling.   id compare it to the number of variables in the typical log group for ecux.

by the way. i work on modified cars for a living.. so i completely understand.  i have no time to even be ambitious about my own.

ok, put in new knock sensors. adjusted my boost control a bit better... its not as bad. but its still much slower than it should be.. and im getting weird what feels like rev limiters at the top of first and after 6500 or so.

2nd gear still rips the tires loose.. but 3rd and up.. feels flat.

heres a log. with some good data..

ok starting to make SOME headway with this.

i realized that after i made my custom Y pipe i never pressure tested the system... knowing that the intercooler and everything was fine.. it didnt cross my mind..


side note:   I am not a professional welder by any means. my car is the first car i started welding aluminum on.... but i get by..


Found quite a few tiny leaks in the Y pipe from the weld start/stop areas where the weld pool pinholed. nothing HUGE.. but.. the combined leak is probably equivalent to that of say a vac hose size leak... im goign to temporarily silicone the pinholes in hopes of getting some logs in the next day or 2 to see if this straightens out any of the issues im having and then hopefully getting the pipe rewelded by some of the fab guys at work.

This is a sweet setup! I love the AN fittings on the valve cover and all the black AN lines. The Y pipe you could just throws in an oven for an hour and then use a tig welder to just zap the pin holes or add a lil rod to it.

Your rpm data is VERY messy... I'd check the pickup.

Also, your PID is misbehaving badly. You should log ALL the PID variables.