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Title: CAN-bus configuration and eliminating CAN related errors Post by: scalp06 on February 17, 2013, 12:22:56 AM Hi, I search all info for help in this project.
First thing, conversion for run with manual gearbox instead stock gearbox. (Gearbox for rear transmission) Is a 100% compatible gearbox available, or does i build an adapter between motor-Gearbox? Can I mod the file for run in good condition, and without limp mode without original Gearbox? Can I mod the file for run without can bus data (abs-esp...)? If any has experience in this kind of swap, thank to help me. (best for free but I can pay for solution) Good bye! Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: matchew on February 17, 2013, 01:47:23 AM Yes.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 17, 2013, 02:33:16 AM You will need an adapter plate.
You can buy a ready plate for 01E, although if you want to run RWD you will need to weld the torsen. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: IamwhoIam on February 17, 2013, 04:14:18 AM yes
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: MadCow on February 17, 2013, 01:18:13 PM With my ME7.5 I got 3 codes with it in a non-canbus car: P1649, P1650, and P1523. Not having read the FR I assume all you need to do is zero out the appropriate DTC classes, which is what I did.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 17, 2013, 03:52:49 PM With my ME7.5 I got 3 codes with it in a non-canbus car: P1649, P1650, and P1523. Not having read the FR I assume all you need to do is zero out the appropriate DTC classes, which is what I did. If you zero any DTC classes, you are doing it wrong... But there is a ton more than just CAN issues on this ECU. It's not simple at all to get it running *properly*, that actually involves tons of fine tuning with an emulator. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: MadCow on February 17, 2013, 04:55:26 PM How would the communication issues prevent it from running properly? Or better phrased, what does the ECU need from the ABS module and cluster?
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 18, 2013, 02:51:32 AM How would the communication issues prevent it from running properly? Or better phrased, what does the ECU need from the ABS module and cluster? Because the ECU is for an auto gearbox. Have fun unplugging the TCU and removing the DTC then... and then wondering why it runs like a bag of crap. Regardless, you never need to zero any DTC classes. All the faults can be removed without touching a DTC class. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: masterj on February 18, 2013, 05:55:04 AM Zeroed dtc classes only dont allow to be written to memory. All the conditional variables are left untouched. To do it properly youd have to dive into fuctions that responsible for setting these errors
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: MadCow on February 18, 2013, 02:57:09 PM Because the ECU is for an auto gearbox. Have fun unplugging the TCU and removing the DTC then... and then wondering why it runs like a bag of crap. Regardless, you never need to zero any DTC classes. All the faults can be removed without touching a DTC class. Oh I misunderstood you, I was talking about only the DTCs from swapping the ECU into a non-canbus car. The 3 I got were crash signal too low and no communication with the cluster and ABS. I imagine the crash signal would be easy to emulate with a resistor but how would you prevent the other 2 from being set without swapping in the appropriate canbus modules? Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 19, 2013, 03:33:23 AM Oh I misunderstood you, I was talking about only the DTCs from swapping the ECU into a non-canbus car. The 3 I got were crash signal too low and no communication with the cluster and ABS. I imagine the crash signal would be easy to emulate with a resistor but how would you prevent the other 2 from being set without swapping in the appropriate canbus modules? Look at the CAN module in the FR. There is no need to emulate anything... Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: ddillenger on February 19, 2013, 09:26:40 AM Look at the CAN module in the FR. There is no need to emulate anything... You hinted @ this in a discussion about Clacins. I was hoping you could elaborate. I don't speak German, but I have a friend that does. If I could give him a specific reference I'll happily research this. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 19, 2013, 09:41:30 AM It's literally staring in your face. Open the thing and look at it at least once, it's not rocket science.
Sorry I am not in the mood for spoon feeding today :p Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: MadCow on February 19, 2013, 10:12:05 AM CW_CAN_R seems to be the ticket here, I really didn't expect it to be that obvious. :P CW_CAN_C also seems like it might be important, but my google translate skills came up with nothing on what it actually does.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 19, 2013, 10:29:57 AM CW_CAN_S.
Send and Receive. Yes, it's /that/ obvious, which is why any time people ask for clarification on this thing, it is pretty obvious to me they haven't bothered looking. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: ddillenger on February 19, 2013, 10:40:50 AM I don't want to disable the entire gateway, i was asking for clarification of how the instrument cluster utilizes it.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 19, 2013, 10:43:18 AM I don't want to disable the entire gateway, i was asking for clarification of how the instrument cluster utilizes it. You are not disabling the entire gateway, the code is there because the instrument cluster does not send any CAN messages to the ECU, while the ECU expects them. It still works the other way around. Just look at the FR once, is it really so hard? Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: MadCow on February 19, 2013, 11:08:25 AM CW_CAN_S. Send and Receive. Yes, it's /that/ obvious, which is why any time people ask for clarification on this thing, it is pretty obvious to me they haven't bothered looking. There's CAN_S, CAN_R, and CAN_C, I was talking about CAN_C. S and R are pretty obvious, but C has no description and references communication with the brakes, allrad(wheel?) and transmission. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 19, 2013, 11:53:25 AM You can ignore _C, it is only used if something is coded incorrectly.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: nyet on February 19, 2013, 12:03:29 PM so CW_CAN_R.5 = 0 tells the ECU not to expect any signals from the cluster?
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: s5fourdoor on February 19, 2013, 01:26:17 PM here's what i do see for m-box at least:
cw_can_s_0_a 0x12C80 default value: 255 cw_can_s_1_a 0x12C82 default value: 255 cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A default value: 32 cw_can_r_1_a 0x12C7C default value: 36 cw_can_r_2_a 0x12C7E default value: 100 cw_can_c 0x10191 default value: 69 please enlighten. heh Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: nyet on February 19, 2013, 02:19:25 PM cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A default value: 32 If i had to guess, this would be bit 5 of CW_CAN_R Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: MadCow on February 19, 2013, 02:47:51 PM Weird,in the TT damos the 3 can_r values are the same, but they're different in yours which doesn't really make sense. Also, what's the difference between Bremse 1 and 3?
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: nyet on February 19, 2013, 02:48:31 PM Code: cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A default value: 32 - 0010 0000 bit 5 Unfortunately, the FR only defines the first 16 bits, of which: 5 - Kombi 1, 2, 3 10 - Botschaft Fahrwerk 13 - % CANSEN Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: phila_dot on February 19, 2013, 03:09:07 PM Code: cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A default value: 32 - 0010 0000 bit 5 Unfortunately, the FR only defines the first 16 bits, of which: 5 - Kombi 1, 2, 3 10 - Botschaft Fahrwerk 13 - % CANSEN There is only 16 bits to define. They are different variants of the same codeword for variant coding. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: nyet on February 19, 2013, 03:20:30 PM Okey doke, so lets amend that to EACH being 16 bit:
Code: cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A default value: 32 - 0010 0000 bit 5 2 - Botschaft Bremse 1 5 - Kombi 1, 2, 3 6 - Botschaft Allrad 1 So, which variant is the one in use? or just clear bit 5 in each: Code: cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A 0 - 0000 0000 Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: phila_dot on February 19, 2013, 03:27:44 PM Okey doke, so lets amend that to EACH being 16 bit: Code: cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A default value: 32 - 0010 0000 bit 5 2 - Botschaft Bremse 1 5 - Kombi 1, 2, 3 6 - Botschaft Allrad 1 So, which variant is the one in use? or just clear bit 5 in each: Code: cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A 0 - 0000 0000 0 Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: phila_dot on February 19, 2013, 03:39:49 PM CW_CAN_R_0 is referenced directly and offset by a byte variable. The byte variable is the sum of 0x81ED77 + 0. In the M-box, 0x81ED77 is 0.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: nyet on February 19, 2013, 04:16:16 PM Thanks phila.
Anybody want to test this? Should be easy to do, just unplug the cluster and see if the ecu throws the code. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: ddillenger on February 19, 2013, 04:51:57 PM What do you want me to do. My car throws p1650 in it's current configuration.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: nyet on February 19, 2013, 06:06:01 PM set 0x12C7A=32 to 0 (mbox), CLACINS leave stock...
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: ddillenger on February 19, 2013, 06:15:08 PM can do. I'll flash it tonight.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: jibberjive on February 20, 2013, 05:55:24 AM So if one had a C5 A6 that they swapped from auto to manual and tossed out the TCU, they would need to find the right cw_can_x_a (x being the number) and change the coding to a variant that is manual (and consequently ignores the TCU input but leaves the ABS and cluster on via CAN), in order to properly fix the CAN communication error for the missing TCU, is this correct?
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 20, 2013, 07:54:22 AM So if one had a C5 A6 that they swapped from auto to manual and tossed out the TCU, they would need to find the right cw_can_x_a (x being the number) and change the coding to a variant that is manual (and consequently ignores the TCU input but leaves the ABS and cluster on via CAN), in order to properly fix the CAN communication error for the missing TCU, is this correct? If there is a coding variant stored in the ECU. In case of the RS6, there is no coding variant for manual. You can code it to manual, but that will accomplish nothing. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: jibberjive on February 20, 2013, 09:12:06 AM Do you by chance know if the 4.2 A6 has the manual coding variant stored in the ECU?
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: prj on February 20, 2013, 09:14:04 AM Do you by chance know if the 4.2 A6 has the manual coding variant stored in the ECU? Pretty sure it doesn't. There was only S6 and S8 with the manual, but they have a lot of other changes too, like injectors, MAF and so on. Nonetheless, probably easier to start with one of those files and then re-calibrate the MAF/injectors than try to do the manual conversion (what a pain in the arse it is...). Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: jibberjive on February 20, 2013, 11:47:35 AM True. Thanks.
Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: ddillenger on February 21, 2013, 07:42:34 PM Jibberjive:
I have a flash for an me7.1.1 s6 with manual trans setup for a6 injectors and maf if you'd like it. Problem is the intake map is still for an s6 with only one state change as opposed to two for the a6. As the s6 only uses one solenoid to activate the changeover pods I don't quite know what to do about this. It runs ok, but isn't as strong as it should be. There is a noticable dip up top. I'd think you could connect both vacuum pods to the same solenoid, but still with the a6 gearing it would leave something to be desired. Title: Re: Ecu mod for swaping rs6 V8TT motor on old car MGBox, without can bus Post by: ddillenger on February 05, 2014, 03:46:01 AM The changes that were in the wiki were insufficient for variant coding. To ensure this code (P1650) is removed for both coding variations you must set CW_CAN_R_0_A (06611) and CW_CAN_R_1_A (06711).
For the M-box: 12C7A 32--->0 12C7C 36--->4 (Don't just 0 this or you remove ABS/ESP module reception from the ecu) For the L-box you can't 0 these or you'll kill CAN reception/timeout monitoring for the TCU as well. Instead: 12C7A 35--->3 12C7C 37--->7 This will ensure CAN monitoring is still active for the TCU and ABS, but kill P1650 when running L-box software in the earlier Bosch equipped cars. Title: Re: CAN-bus configuration and eliminating CAN related errors Post by: nyet on February 05, 2014, 05:59:15 PM Thanks for editing the wiki for me :)
Title: Re: CAN-bus configuration and eliminating CAN related errors Post by: ddillenger on February 05, 2014, 06:04:53 PM Thanks for editing the wiki for me :) 'Tis the nature of a wiki sir. But seriously, I do it for the kids. Title: Re: CAN-bus configuration and eliminating CAN related errors Post by: jibberjive on February 05, 2014, 10:55:16 PM But seriously, I do it for the kids. Wu Tang is for the children!http://youtu.be/BS181X4F3bw Title: Re: CAN-bus configuration and eliminating CAN related errors Post by: mightemouce on December 06, 2014, 09:05:48 AM Bumping an older thread.. But I believe this is exactly what I need to edit on to get rid of the last light on my swap.
Can anyone confirm these values on an A Box Ecu ? cw_can_s_0_a 0x12C80 default value: 255 cw_can_s_1_a 0x12C82 default value: 255 cw_can_r_0_a 0x12C7A default value: 32 cw_can_r_1_a 0x12C7C default value: 36 cw_can_r_2_a 0x12C7E default value: 100 cw_can_c 0x10191 default value: 69 or what the offset between the a box and mbox locations of these values would be? Title: Re: CAN-bus configuration and eliminating CAN related errors Post by: Jannik07 on October 03, 2023, 10:19:53 AM For those who are looking for answers like me :D
I also had problems with a RS6 C5 manual conversion. To get rid of the codes i modifief CW_CAN_R (first too bytes to 0) and CWGC from 1 to 15. 15 is the value for manual transmission. Of course there are other mods to do, but thats a good startingpoint. In my case the car had an ESP Unit from a S6. Cheers ! Title: Re: CAN-bus configuration and eliminating CAN related errors Post by: prj on October 03, 2023, 02:17:18 PM This is the smallest one of all the problems.
By far the biggest problem is the idle PID, LSD, ARMD etc being calibrated for the torque converter, and not for a clutch pedal. Even installing the pedal you get random rev hangs, stalling and bunnyhopping on the car. This is what takes the longest to get right. And there's not even a "magic bullet" solution because everybody fits a different weight flywheel on the thing. So end calibration always has to be done regardless. |