NefMoto

Technical => Community Projects => Topic started by: thelastleroy on October 02, 2014, 06:08:34 PM



Title: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 02, 2014, 06:08:34 PM
This thread is for those who are looking to learn how to tune their own *stock* 1.8t engine. All modifications to the software are tested and worked out on stock hardware.

This is a community project; I started this thread to show a progression through the self-tuning process, helped along by the more experienced tuners on nefmoto. This will show my path in learing the basics (still learning everyday) as well as some of the obstacles you will be up against with the 1.8t.

The original (stock) .bin file and tunerpro definition file we are discussing are found below. The *latest* tuned file is also below. Please note that this tuned file for 94 octane gas, which may not be available depending on your location. If you use lesser octane fuel you will need to make changes to the fueling and timing maps. Any improvements or versions for different fuel etc are welcome.
 
Happy hunting


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 02, 2014, 07:19:04 PM
I'm basically trying to use the community 2.7t project as a guide since the maps work the same for ME7.5. I'm stuck with the fuel adjustments right now: how do I get the axis values for LAMFA to look this way, and what is the actual FR name for the "pedal position for desired air/fuel ratio" map?



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: armageddon on October 03, 2014, 05:42:49 AM
Hey guys,

I'm trying to adapt what I'm reading in the 2.7 thread to my 1.8t A4.  I'm stuck with the fuel adjustments right now: how do I get the axis values for LAMFA to look this way, and what is the actual FR name for the "pedal position for desired air/fuel ratio" map?

If it makes more sense I'll start a new thread. I'm basically trying to use the community 2.7t project as a guide since the maps work the same for ME7.5. The community project xdf parameter names are actually a bit hard for me to compare to my xdf file. Want to start a community project 1.8t version? I'm sure a lot of the "same old" tuning questions could be summed up and clarified for the A4 and Volkswagen crowd that are just starting out, and would be satisfied with a simple stage 1.

"pedal position for desired air/fuel ratio" map on the xdf you post is LAMFA_COLAXIS


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 04, 2014, 05:41:50 AM
Thanks armageddon. I've got the LAMFA_COLAXIS units adjusted to match the 2.7t values, and now I'm going to adjust LAMFA values. Trouble is, my LAMFA table isn't in units of AFR, it's in lambda. How can I change my LAMFA definition to read in AFR? To me it's easier to grasp, especially when you can compare your target numbers with a stanalone wideband sensor.

Here's a screen of where I'm at


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 04, 2014, 05:46:25 AM
Thanks armageddon. I've got the LAMFA_COLAXIS units adjusted to match the 2.7t values, and now I'm going to adjust LAMFA values. Trouble is, my LAMFA table isn't in units of AFR, it's in lambda. How can I change my LAMFA definition to read in AFR? To me it's easier to grasp, especially when you can compare your target numbers with a stanalone wideband sensor.

Here's a screen of where I'm at

Look at the factor I used in the 2.7 xdf, copy that into your 1.8 xdf.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 04, 2014, 06:01:12 AM
Thanks DDillenger!

I created a new table to make sure I don't mess up the original. By factor do you mean the equation in the conversion tab? Looks like I've got it sorted now. Oh, and I'm going to need to define LDRXN which is not in my XDF. I'm not very good with WINOLS yet, so if someone could throw me a bone and tell me the address I'll copy the table info from another xdf and try to add it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 04, 2014, 08:08:08 AM
kfdluls is incorrect in that def, though I have not looked into it myself to correct it.

Here are other maps that you will need for a stage I tune:

Address;Name;Size
"$29734";"(LDRXN) Maximum Load";"16x1"
"$29776";"(LDRXNZK) Maximum Load under Knock";"16x1"
"$12856";"(KFZW) Ignition Advance Lookup Table";"12x16"
"$12916";"(KFZW2) Ignition Advance Lookup Table Variant 2";"12x16"
"$29402";"(KFLDHBN) Boost Pressure Limit(Max. Pressure Ratio)";"8x8"

ldrxn/zk rpm axis; $29714 (0.250000 * x)
ldrxn conv; (0.023438 * x)

kfzw rpm axis;  $138DE (0.250000 * X)
kfzw load axis; $13986 (0.023438 * x)
kfzw conv; (.750000 * X)

hbn rpm axis; $293F2 (40.00000 * x)
hbn Grad C axis;  $293FA (0.750000 * x)
hbn conv; (0.015625 * X)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 04, 2014, 08:14:13 AM
Also, I would suggest getting used to using lambda values over AFR values.

Here's what I use for reference when I don't feel like doing math:

(http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/163188/)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 04, 2014, 08:39:29 AM
Updated xdf to include LDRXN/ZK, KFZW/2, and KFLDHBN



Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 04, 2014, 08:57:14 AM
You're a prince


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 04, 2014, 11:31:43 AM
Also, I would suggest getting used to using lambda values over AFR values.

I generally double up LAMFA and BTS maps, one in lambda, one in AFR


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 05, 2014, 05:48:04 AM
Well I've been working away, and now I realize I've made a balls-up. I bought the MTX tunerpro plugin when I read my original file, and the license is only good for that file or its variants. I can't actually correct the checksums on the 518AK file once I've modified it! I went with the 518ak file because it was hard to find a decent xdf for my original.

I tried me7sum, but it failed. Now I'm faced with the choice of starting over with my original file, or buy the "commercial" license from MTX..... >:(


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 05, 2014, 06:41:14 AM
Well I've been working away, and now I realize I've made a balls-up. I bought the MTX tunerpro plugin when I read my original file, and the license is only good for that file or its variants. I can't actually correct the checksums on the 518AK file once I've modified it! I went with the 518ak file because it was hard to find a decent xdf for my original.

I tried me7sum, but it failed. Now I'm faced with the choice of starting over with my original file, or buy the "commercial" license from MTX..... >:(

I'm not so sure that's how the MTX license works. Isn't it licensed to a specific PC?  I know there's two different plugins though.  For what's it's worth, the MTX license did not work for my 2004 Jetta (032 PL).  I am not sure how it would work with this 518AK, but I can try it.  I would get the RSA signature error in ME7 Check, and although you my find mutterings that that error is irrelevant on here, that's not true.  I had my ecu lock me out several times, a week or two after the initial flash.

In the meantime, I can checksum some revisions for you to keep this thread rolling.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 05, 2014, 06:52:53 AM
Just tried the MTX plugin on this file and it does not work.  RSA signature error.  You will have to find an alternate method of correcting checksums with this file.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 05, 2014, 07:13:06 AM
Strangely enough, I have an "alternate" choice xdf and bin for 8e0909518ak that i can correct with my MTX plugin, and will run on my car. I chose to use the .bin/xdf in the original post because it came recommended to me. Not sure where to go with this, If I use the "alternate" 518ak xdf, it will need some streamlining. Too many maps for stage 1 and a little confusing for newbs :-[. Here's the "alternate" files, I found them here on Nef...

*edit: I have removed these files which are not correct for the thread.*


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 05, 2014, 07:42:03 AM
Well I've been working away, and now I realize I've made a balls-up. I bought the MTX tunerpro plugin when I read my original file, and the license is only good for that file or its variants. I can't actually correct the checksums on the 518AK file once I've modified it! I went with the 518ak file because it was hard to find a decent xdf for my original.

I tried me7sum, but it failed. Now I'm faced with the choice of starting over with my original file, or buy the "commercial" license from MTX..... >:(

Please post your bin.

The latest version of me7sum should work.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 05, 2014, 07:47:53 AM
Strangely enough, I have an "alternate" choice xdf and bin for 8e0909518ak that i can correct with my MTX plugin, and will run on my car. I chose to use the .bin/xdf in the original post because it came recommended to me. Not sure where to go with this, If I use the "alternate" 518ak xdf, it will need some streamlining. Too many maps for stage 1 and a little confusing for newbs :-[. Here's the "alternate" files, I found them here on Nef...

I've had issues with this file.  I couldn't get LAMFA fueling to work on it.  Now I am instead using the file originally posted in this thread instead.  Waiting on logs from this file, so I can't yet confirm that this one works any better, though it should.

I have the same RSA signature error on both of these 518AK files when using the MTX tuner pro plugin.  I'd be weary of flashing these MTX checksumed files to your car if I were you.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 05, 2014, 08:45:16 AM
ME7Sum now works with this file, and other ME7.5 files.  BIG Ups Nyet!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 05, 2014, 09:57:12 AM
Hey all, turns out I must have mixed up my reference file for the MTX plugin or some other housekeeping error in my bin file directory. I've since cleaned things up and MTX is working for the community project file again!


I'm going to attach the modified stage 1 file* for nyet to check for compatibility with me7sum etc. (all I've changed are the LAMFA values and axes, and a new ldrxn curve).

I HAVE NOT TESTED THIS FILE!! FLASH AT OWN RISK

Here's a screen shot of me7check giving the OK on the corrected file as well.
*I have removed this .bin file because it had RSA errors*


I'm going to re-do my stock file logs (what parameters to log?) and then flash over this one and log again, probably tomorrow.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 05, 2014, 10:45:17 AM
For the sake of the community project, I would suggest that you use ME7Sum.  Setup tunerpro so that it you can set a keyboard shortcut to correct or validate checksums with me7sum.

This is free to everyone and everyone can get it now.  MTX costs money, hasn't even worked for me, and it takes time to get the license file from them. 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 05, 2014, 10:48:35 AM
You are using an old version of ME7Check!

This is what I get with the newest ME7Check with your file

Code:
ME7Check v1.12 (c) mki, 06/2004-05/2012
Checking file Z:\ECU Tuning\new\518AKv1.bin (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 06.02
-> EPK = 40/1/ME7.5/5/4012.31//24E/Dst03o/110403//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261208230'         (SSECUHN)         
   - '1037368072'         (SSECUSN)         
   - '8E0909518AK '       (VAG part number)
   - '0003'               (VAG sw number)   
   - '1.8L R4/5VT    '    (engine id)       
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - 'HW_MAN004'                           


RSA signature failure found
-> Found 1 error!!!   *******************************


I wouldn't flash this file.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 05, 2014, 11:08:06 AM
File corrected with ME7Sum

Code:
==============================================================================
me7check v1.12 (c) mki, 06/2004-05/2012
Checking file Z:\ECUTuning\new\518AKv1checksum.bin (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 06.02
-> EPK = 40/1/ME7.5/5/4012.31//24E/Dst03o/110403//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261208230'         (SSECUHN)
   - '1037368072'         (SSECUSN)
   - '8E0909518AK '       (VAG part number)
   - '0003'               (VAG sw number)
   - '1.8L R4/5VT    '    (engine id)
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - 'HW_MAN004'


-> No errors found. File is OK.   *********************


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 05, 2014, 11:21:21 AM
If you check my past posts I have showed how to setup me7sum for keyboard shortcuts.

Also the MTX plugin, we're you trying with the ME7 plugin? Or the ME7 2002+? I was referring to the use of the 2002+ one for my friends 518AK file. I haven't made a file yet for him cause he didn't wanna buy plugin. But now that's I have enough of a xdf to work off of I'll give it a try.

Also, have you posted the v2 xdf from the above screenshot? I'd like the one with psi vs. Load it just makes more sense to me.

Thanks


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 05, 2014, 11:42:32 AM
I'm going to look into using me7sum exclusively, for ease of use in this project. I've also removed the .bin file I posted earlier that had errors.

Here's the v2 xdf I"m using


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 05, 2014, 01:16:28 PM
Big thank you to everyone helping with testing. I really appreciate it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 05, 2014, 03:29:16 PM
I'd like to incorporate the "pushbutton" emission and cat delete niceties from the 2.7 thread. How is this done? Ddillenger secret?


Title: Re:
Post by: ddillenger on October 05, 2014, 04:30:30 PM
I'd like to incorporate the "pushbutton" emission and cat delete niceties from the 2.7 thread. How is this done? Ddillenger secret?

Copy the parameters from my xdf, paste them into yours, change the addresss.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 05, 2014, 05:57:39 PM
DD, I wanna know who had the nerve to give you negative karma?

I mean like who would do that you are one of the top people who respond and give advice and knowledge.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 06, 2014, 05:22:03 PM
If you check my past posts I have showed how to setup me7sum for keyboard shortcuts.

AudiMan85 - Thanks for this. I've got the shortcuts up and running in Tunerpro. Very slick, and so easy. Is it possible to output the file as the same name instead of "fixed.bin"?

I flashed the file to my car today and went for a 10 minute city/highway drive. Feels pretty good. Real car-running proof that me7sum does work for me7.5! I'm going to log when the weather is better. Is there a standard list of log parameters for something like this? I want to have all the info available.

From an educational standpoint, I'd like to ask someone to please explain the changes we've made in the LAMFA axis for pedal percentage. Does this bring LAMFA map in sooner than normal (starting at 50% now) in order to control the fuel delivery with LAMFA instead of another map? I know someone is going to say "go read FR" but lets put it into laymans terms for the sake of this thread.

Thanks again to all who have been helping me work this out! ;D


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 06, 2014, 09:39:23 PM
If maybe I had a user manual for TunerPro I could tell you the how to, the only way I have it setup up is with the examples the program gives you on the setup of the extract tool. I have no clue what command would produce a file output that's the same, but I suggest one with some label as to the file being fixed. I have the MTX plug-in also and it corrects it and outputs the file with the same name. Sometimes it can be a problem if you don't check it 1st and flash it. I like just the word fixed just so I know and then I label it xxxxxxxxxx_fixed.bin just to be on the safe side.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: kory2000pr on October 06, 2014, 11:09:40 PM
Great topic. Sorry I cant contribute(not at that level yet)
But interested in this proyect.
b
By the way Im also stuck without checksums for the me7.5
Just posted a new topic in the noob section.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 06, 2014, 11:24:25 PM
dude.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 07, 2014, 03:04:58 AM
Ok I got it.

If you set up me7sum in the "custom tools" in tuner pro like this, it will output the checksummed file with the same file name in the same location!. We have a plugin folks.

You must remember to save your file before checking/correcting. It is ALWAYS important to run me7check before flashing, preferrably from cmd line just to be safe.

me7sum and me7check must be in the same folder as the bin files you want to check/correct. You will also have to enter your own path to this folder location.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 07, 2014, 05:31:18 AM
you can use ME7Sum to validate checksums as well.  If you don't pass in a second file path parameter to the command line it just checks.  I have tunerpro setup like this:

ctrl + alt + v = "validate" with me7sum
ctrl + alt + c = "correct" with me7sum
ctrl + alt + x = "check" with me7check

After I've saved my bin, I'll do a validate and check just for the hell of it just to make sure there are checksum errors.  Then I will correct, followed by a validate and check to verify all is well with the file.

------------

As for which variables to log, use the attached ME7Logger config file to start.  We can add more variables if needed. I really want to see those logs!!!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 07, 2014, 05:32:05 AM
dude.

duuuuuude.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 07, 2014, 05:56:22 AM
From an educational standpoint, I'd like to ask someone to please explain the changes we've made in the LAMFA axis for pedal percentage. Does this bring LAMFA map in sooner than normal (starting at 50% now) in order to control the fuel delivery with LAMFA instead of another map? I know someone is going to say "go read FR" but lets put it into laymans terms for the sake of this thread.

Driver's Requested Relative torque (mrfa_w) closely resembles accelerator pedal position.  You can "go read the FR", :) sorry had to, to understand the relationship.  I'm pretty sure that mrfa is the lamfa % axis.

You should post a screenshot of your LAMFA table now that you've mentioned you started at 50%.  If you are enriching the mixture at 50% and your lowest axis value is 50%, that means that from 0% to 50% it will interpolate 1 to .85 or whatever your value is at 50%. 

Example - 25% mrfa would (could) give you .925 lambda.  You don't want to be doing that.

For LAMFA, I will typically modify the axis as 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100

I will put what I want my request to be at WOT in the 90 and 100 columns.  I will then take those values and paste them into the 80, 70 and 60 columns and multiply the values by 1.05, 1.10, 1.20 respectively.  This gives a smooth transition to my desired WOT fueling request, should the driver request less than 90%.  It won't start enriching until after 50% because my 50% row is all ones, and my 60% is not much less than one.

Tunerpro's visual graph is really nice too.  I'll use it once I get my main points figured out to make smooth transitions between those points.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: A4Rich on October 07, 2014, 12:38:34 PM
I'm going to look into using me7sum exclusively, for ease of use in this project. I've also removed the .bin file I posted earlier that had errors.

Here's the v2 xdf I"m using

Added a conversion factor for KFZW and KFZW2 in the attached XDF, (also added the software number to the XDF file name). 

Due to the many software variations which have different map locations, I suggest that we add the software number to both bin and XDF files. 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: A4Rich on October 07, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
Attached is an XDF for software number 37369307 which includes most of the definitions in ddillenger's 2.7T Stage 1 XDF with the exception of the emissions related definitions (still trying to figure these out..). I will keep track of updates to this file as to not derail the purpose of the thread.

Update:
The attached XDF is only compatible with a bin that has a 37369307 software version, the stock bin is posted here (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5322.msg50558#msg50558).  The software version can be verified in ME7Check, it is in the output and labeled SSECUSN.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 07, 2014, 04:51:08 PM
Attached is an XDF for software number 0137369307 which includes most of the definitions in ddillenger's 2.7T Stage 1 XDF with the exception of the emissions related definitions (still trying to figure these out..). I will keep track of updates to this file as to not derail the purpose of the thread.

Rich,

There's something wrong with the xdf that's affecting the timing maps. It's got irregular values compared with the original xdf for this file from DDillenger. Check the screenshot.

Also.................I have a log on the laptop. I will upload the .csv once the rain stops and I can go get the machine out of the car.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: A4Rich on October 07, 2014, 06:06:25 PM
Rich,

There's something wrong with the xdf that's affecting the timing maps. It's got irregular values compared with the original xdf for this file from DDillenger. Check the screenshot.

I believe you are using the bin file that is in the original post.  That file has a different software version changing the locations of many if not all maps.  With the matching software number file the maps are correct, see attachment. 

I updated my previous post to clarify which 518AK bin that XDF is compatible with.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 07, 2014, 07:17:41 PM
Ok, here's the first log for the stage 1 tuned file. The fueling has been adjusted, as well as the LAMFA axes, and LDRXN values changed.
I'll post a screen from tunerpro of the Maps as they are in this file.

I'm running "ultra 94" gas from Petro-Canada. Supposed to be 94octane. I have a K&N panel filter in the stock air box, and I have removed the SAI/PCV systems. The recirculation valve is actuated directly from manifold vacuum (I know now this is not ideal, but haven't gotten around to hooking up the vacuum reservoir). Exhaust is stock. Coils/plugs stock. Injectors stock.

Tell me what you think guys, and thanks again for all of your help


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 07, 2014, 07:21:36 PM
I believe you are using the bin file that is in the original post.  That file has a different software version changing the locations of many if not all maps.  With the matching software number file the maps are correct, see attachment. 

I updated my previous post to clarify which 518AK bin that XDF is compatible with.

If possible, I'd like to include all of the applicable files/xdfs in the OP to avoid confusion and clutter. That way the most updated xdfs and correct bin files are all in one place, paired for convenience. What do you think? Moderators?

I'll go back and change the names of the original files I posted, with the proper extensions.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 07, 2014, 09:53:47 PM
Of course. Edit at will.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 08, 2014, 05:39:59 AM
This is what I see from the logs.

Boost starts at 15psi @ 2500rpm and tapers to around 9psi @ 6,000rpm

Air Fuel Ratio Desired is following Drivers Requested Target AFR, but is not following what we have in our LAMFA table.  @2.5k lambda request is .92 and tapers to .86 @5,360, at which point it looks like BTS fueling kicks in. We are not logging the BTS fueling lambda request, so this is an assumption.

Timing looks good for now.  No timing pull.  Keep it safe until everything else is sorted out.

We need to figure out why our lamfa_w request is lean and not following LAMFA.  Once the we get the correct mixture, it will hopefully keep us out of BTS fueling up high (at which point we are seeing fuel injector duty cycles > 100% currently)

You know... We should also get some logs of the stock file for comparison.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 08, 2014, 10:07:36 AM
Can you post the actual log, and some plots vs RPM?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 08, 2014, 10:51:52 AM
Can you post the actual log, and some plots vs RPM?

see post 40... Although I am not really sure what's more to get out of this log with the fueling the way it is.


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 08, 2014, 11:16:20 AM
Im going to flash the stock file back today and log for a comparison


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 08, 2014, 11:19:34 AM
Log lamfaw_w and lamfaws_w

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2637.0

I'm guessing the problem is TLAFA, which is zero in the stock 2.7t file but may be non-zero in the file you are tuning.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 08, 2014, 02:44:11 PM
Log lamfaw_w and lamfaws_w

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2637.0

I'm guessing the problem is TLAFA, which is zero in the stock 2.7t file but may be non-zero in the file you are tuning.

I think it's KFTLAFA in this file which is a map rather that a single value.  A single value would just delay the onset of krkte, but then it would drop right to your values in the table, which is not the case here.

So, we just have to find KFTLAFA.  :)

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4254.0


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 08, 2014, 02:53:51 PM
KFTLAFA_0_A 195F9
KFTLAFA_1_A 19629

8x6


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 08, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
A single value would just delay the onset of krkte, but then it would drop right to your values in the table, which is not the case here.

Newp, you still have to deal with ZK....


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 08, 2014, 03:21:22 PM
Newp, you still have to deal with ZK....

ZKLAMFAW: 26EC0
KFZKLAMFAW_0_A: 26D88
KFZKLAMFAW_1_A: 26DE8


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 08, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
Does this look at all accurate for the shown maps?

KFTLAFA looks right
ZKLAMFAW might be right
KFZKLAMFAW looks way wrong



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: A4Rich on October 08, 2014, 08:51:46 PM
Does this look at all accurate for the shown maps?

KFTLAFA looks right
ZKLAMFAW might be right
KFZKLAMFAW looks way wrong



I am no expert, not even sure what the values look like for these maps... but I went back to the 518AQ bin file posted in the thread referenced in post #48  (thought the values maybe the same with the later 518 ecus) and defined the maps at the locations given. ???

Edit: Can't seem to revise the attachment but KFZKLAMFAW_1_A is at 26DE8 and not 26D88 as labeled.  Also ZKLAMFAW is at 26EC0 and not 26F10 as labeled.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 03:28:55 AM
Log lamfaw_w and lamfaws_w

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2637.0

I'm guessing the problem is TLAFA, which is zero in the stock 2.7t file but may be non-zero in the file you are tuning.
I couldn't get the logger to to start yesterday, I'll try again this afternoon so we have a stock file to compare to.

Nyet: did you want lamfaw & lamfaws logged on the stock file or modified file?

As far as defining the new maps goes, I'll leave it to the more experienced users. I'm just not there yet.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 09, 2014, 04:32:23 AM
I couldn't get the logger to to start yesterday, I'll try again this afternoon so we have a stock file to compare to.

I suspect that you couldn't get the logger to start because your stock file is a different software version.  You will need to create a new ECU file based off your stock bin for ME7Logger to work.

And yes, log the same variables in the stock file as the tuned file.  You can use the same logger config file for both ecus, just need a different ecu file.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 04:49:24 PM
New logs!

I added lamfaw_w and lamfaws_w to the log config, and did pulls with the stock AND modified files on the same stretch of pavement. Hopefully it will shed some light on the situation.

I'm still learning how to read the logs to find out what's going on, but I can tell you that the modified file is much more fun to drive ;D. It was kind of a bummer to get the stock file back on the car. I've got a long road-trip this weekend for thanksgiving (about 3 hours drive), so I think I'll leave the stock file on there until after the long drive. Once the tune is a bit more refined (and proven over time) I'll feel more comfortable. My commute to work during the week is 15mins or less, so if there are any long-term problems with the tune, I wouldn't know. Last thing I need is an overheat or something like that 2 hours from home with the wife and kids!   :o

Let's keep this rolling, who has suggestions about what's next based on the logs? Need more data? I'll do more logs!



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 09, 2014, 04:57:33 PM
That looks REALLY good. I can't find much to criticize. Good job!

Honestly, it looks very safe to daily drive it.

Minor nits:

BTS is still kicking in, might consider numbing it some. LAMFA is still coming in a bit late, ZK could be toned down further.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 05:01:45 PM
WOW ;D

That IS good news. I always thought my A4 was a good runner in stock form. I suspect the mechanical is in good shape. I've got a front-mount to install this winter when I have time, should help out a bit with the IATs. Are we going to call fueling and boost good then for now?

You will have to forgive my ignorance, I am very much new to this. What adjustments are necessary to bring lambts and zklamfaw into check?



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 09, 2014, 05:02:46 PM
WOW ;D

That IS good news. I always thought my A4 was a good runner in stock form. I suspect the mechanical is in good shape. I've got a front-mount to install this winter when I have time, should help out a bit with the IATs. Are we going to call fueling and boost good then for now? What's next?

Sorry, added some nits to my post just now :)

Fueling still needs some help. Might be able to add a bit of timing.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 09, 2014, 05:09:00 PM
Agreed.

Get fueling dialed, then I would say you're good for a stage1.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 05:16:24 PM
Sorry, added some nits to my post just now :)

Fueling still needs some help. Might be able to add a bit of timing.

Sorry, added some more questions to my post ;D, everyone likes to edit around here, including me! I need a few tables added to the xdf, and some pointers on fine-tuning the fueling from the experts. I'm going to go read the S4wiki about the timing maps and how to tune.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 09, 2014, 05:23:27 PM
Agreed.

Get fueling dialed, then I would say you're good for a stage1.

I am not positive on how accurate the definition of some of those fueling maps are at the moment.   

We need not worry about timing until we get fueling sorted first as fueling will determine what sort of advance we can run.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 09, 2014, 05:27:54 PM
All you really need is FBSTABM and TABGBTS. Should be sufficiently high to begin with, but these 1.8t's tend to run high calculated EGT's.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 05:34:07 PM
All you really need is FBSTABM and TABGBTS. Should be sufficiently high to begin with, but these 1.8t's tend to run high calculated EGT's.

Ok sounds good. Could I ask for the addresses?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 09, 2014, 05:39:03 PM
All you really need is FBSTABM and TABGBTS. Should be sufficiently high to begin with, but these 1.8t's tend to run high calculated EGT's.

I think this is getting a little ahead of ourselves.  We still need to correct LAMFA fueling before we even think of messing with BTS fueling.  Proper LAMFA fueling might even keep us from entering bts enrichment, or at least make the onset come on later.

Step 1 IMO is to verify the map defintions for the zk and tlafa maps and understand how to use them.  I hate those maps.  :)  Not making this a very easy Stage I.


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 05:44:46 PM
So either way we need xdf help


Title: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on October 09, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
So either way we need xdf help

I guess the other option might be to set lower values in lamfa, but I'd just feel dirty doing that.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 09, 2014, 06:03:01 PM
Keep an eye on IDC when tuning these. Non-return fuel system is a bitch.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 09, 2014, 06:04:59 PM
I think this is getting a little ahead of ourselves.  We still need to correct LAMFA fueling before we even think of messing with BTS fueling.  Proper LAMFA fueling might even keep us from entering bts enrichment, or at least make the onset come on later.

Agreed. LAMFA first, BUT:

Quote
zk and tlafa

From comparing lamfaw and lamfaws, TLAFA seems to be zeroed properly.

ZK is getting there. We aren't that far off as far as LAMFA goes... i think it would be safe to start addressing BTS onset as well, even now.

Keep an eye on IDC when tuning these. Non-return fuel system is a bitch.

Looks like IDC is maxed as soon as BTS comes in, but we're still close to requested, so we aren't entirely f'd. Might want to tone down req load near redline anyway.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 09, 2014, 06:16:37 PM
ZK is getting there.

nothing but lamfa and it's % axis has been modified in this file as far as fueling is concerned.


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 06:23:45 PM
I think I changed the rpm  axis numbers to match the 2.7 numbers as well


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 09, 2014, 06:37:17 PM
nothing but lamfa and it's % axis has been modified in this file as far as fueling is concerned.

Ok. To simplify things we can also just bring lamfa in earlier..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Start enrichment at say, 70% pedal position and ramp towards 100%?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 09, 2014, 06:47:26 PM
Start enrichment at say, 70% pedal position and ramp towards 100%?
on the rpm axis.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 09, 2014, 06:51:52 PM
Start enrichment at say, 70% pedal position and ramp towards 100%?

Richest at peak load. You want AFR to decrease as boost increases. Sort of inverse. Don't go too rich too soon. It might not matter on a K03, but that can hurt spool.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 09, 2014, 07:11:29 PM
Start enrichment at say, 70% pedal position and ramp towards 100%?

on the rpm axis.

Agreed, if you do it on the pedal axis you'll get terrible gas mileage.

Also, doing it via pedal input doesn't even remotely compensate for time based smoothing :P


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 09, 2014, 07:46:27 PM
I'm not sure if this is what you mean.... let me know.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 09, 2014, 07:55:27 PM
Definitely not.

you don't want to add any fuel anywhere except for last column.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 09, 2014, 08:07:34 PM
Disagree with nye. 90 percent should request enrichment. Just not the same as 100 percent, and not as early.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 09, 2014, 08:08:51 PM
works for me, but enriching in 70% makes no sense ;)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: aef on October 10, 2014, 01:23:42 AM
Here is my 1.8t Lamfa



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 10, 2014, 02:52:58 AM
Here is my 1.8t Lamfa



You're a prince!

Now I understand what you guys meant  :-[ Before I had only 1 lambda and .85 lambda, the latter was the ENTIRE last two columns at any rpm above 1000. What I needed to try is smooth out the transition between 1 lambda and maximum enrichment as rpm increases, still in these two rows only. We'll see how it goes!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 10, 2014, 02:56:08 AM
Agreed. LAMFA first, BUT:

From comparing lamfaw and lamfaws, TLAFA seems to be zeroed properly.

ZK is getting there. We aren't that far off as far as LAMFA goes... i think it would be safe to start addressing BTS onset as well, even now.

Looks like IDC is maxed as soon as BTS comes in, but we're still close to requested, so we aren't entirely f'd. Might want to tone down req load near redline anyway.

nyet: You think i should ramp down ldrxn a bit more towards redline?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 10, 2014, 04:37:15 AM
You're a prince!

Now I understand what you guys meant  :-[ Before I had only 1 lambda and .85 lambda, the latter was the ENTIRE last two columns at any rpm above 1000. What I needed to try is smooth out the transition between 1 lambda and maximum enrichment as rpm increases, still in these two rows only. We'll see how it goes!

I think you will end up needing something like this in order to get lamdba where you want it at .85 with those time delays active
1k .80
3k .76
4k .79
5k .83
6k .84


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 10, 2014, 09:23:48 AM
What I needed to try is smooth out the transition between 1 lambda and maximum enrichment as rpm increases, still in these two rows only. We'll see how it goes!

Actually, with stock ZK you don't really :) It will do the smoothing for you ... but the concept is correct. In any case, you may actually HAVE to make it a cliff if you keep ZK stock.

nyet: You think i should ramp down ldrxn a bit more towards redline?

Let's hold off on that until we see what IDC looks like w/o BTS


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 10, 2014, 06:00:48 PM
Log from this morning, with aef's lambda values and a *very* slight ldrxn decrease through redline (sorry nyet, already logged before I caught your post). Let me know what you think


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 10, 2014, 06:15:26 PM
I want to see an AFR of 12.5 at 2500rpm. I think LAMFA is coming in too late. If that doesn't knock EGT's down a bit, then it's time to raise the threshold for BTS enrichment.


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 10, 2014, 06:49:29 PM
I guess I need to alter zklamfaw to allow faster onset of lamfa fuel map? Is this parameter a map or scalar? I saw you posted the address a few pages back.

Or maybe just try to cludge the numbers in the lamfa table and log until it works? I'm starting to think I should run the stock file for this road trip if ive got lean burn issues


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 10, 2014, 06:58:34 PM
No. What you have there is reasonably safe, just not ideal.

Nye will chime in.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 12, 2014, 07:48:17 AM
I found the correct locations for the KFZKLAMFAW maps.  The locations previously mentioned in this thread were incorrect.
26B04 and 26B64, which are the two maps right directly before LAMFA.

It seems that ZKLAMFAW is at 26C3C, I am unsure if this is a map or a single value, 8 or 16bit.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5407.11

I think we just FF the KFZKLAMFAW tables and go from there.  Once we know this works, we can slightly decrease the values to smooth out the request, but not enough to delay it this much.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 12, 2014, 06:18:42 PM
Here's an updated xdf with correct locations for kftlafa and kfzklamfaw maps.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: thelastleroy on October 13, 2014, 12:22:19 PM
What software version is this updated xdf for?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 13, 2014, 12:33:12 PM
What software version is this updated xdf for?

The only one that should be in this thread.  :)  368072


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: nyet on October 13, 2014, 12:37:52 PM
The only one that should be in this thread.  :)  368072

that is 0003... should we be using 369307-0004?

Also, can you post the 0003 ori, I don't seem to have it, only the 0004 ori



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: ddillenger on October 13, 2014, 12:48:03 PM
My addresses were wrong because everyone that asks for these has always done so for the version I don't use (004). I assumed that you guys were also using that shit software.

Sorry about that.

Nye:

Please find the software version referenced in this thread attached below.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on October 13, 2014, 01:15:42 PM
My addresses were wrong because everyone that asks for these has always done so for the version I don't use (004). I assumed that you guys were also using that shit software.

DD, can you explain your experience as to why 0004 is shit?  :)  Just so we know why we are going back to 0003.  I think the reason why this thread began using 0003 was because you advised people to use 0003 over 0004.

I had issues in the past with 0004, but I can't tell you for sure if switching to 0003 made a difference or not as I don't have new logs yet.  My issue was that after the kickdown happened, and it dropped back down a gear, the load/boost request was all over the place and oscillated up and down until the driver let off the accelerator.  It is for this reason, I have particular interest in this thread.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 13, 2014, 01:25:24 PM
Fueling problems. I ported over to 004 after having a c'sum error with custom code (before I had ecufix). The file was perfect on 003, but on 004 actual AFR didn't follow requested at all. I double, triple, quadruple checked EVERYTHING. I ended up going back to 003 and all issues were gone.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 13, 2014, 03:17:29 PM
Ok, back from an awesome Canadian Thanksgiving road trip to Parry Sound. Beautiful drive once the traffic opened up. I ended up leaving the tuned file on the car, and it was fine for ordinary tame driving, and reasonable fuel economy on the highway.

Anyways, now that we have kftlafa and kfzklamfaw in the latest xdf (thanks SB_GLI), what can be done to improve the LAMFA situation based on the last log? Someone want to explain how these work?



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 14, 2014, 04:53:12 AM
Anyways, now that we have kftlafa and kfzklamfaw in the latest xdf (thanks SB_GLI), what can be done to improve the LAMFA situation based on the last log? Someone want to explain how these work?

Here's what I would use for my first pass.  Attached are screenshots of the stock values, and modified values.  I set kftlafa (time delay) to .2 seconds across the board and raised the kfzklamfa (smoothing) maps to higher values, not so much that there is no smoothing, but hopefully not too little so that the smoothing doesn't delay the desired lamdba that we want to achieve.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: aef on October 14, 2014, 05:38:16 AM
Not sure if i understood the last posts:

It is necessary to do the changes to force the ecu to follow only lamfa map?

Are kftlafa and kfzklamfaw available in very me7.5? I searched the board and found only two posts for BFB/BEX A4 1.8t



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: phila_dot on October 14, 2014, 08:22:49 AM
In ME7, they are TLAFA and ZKLAMFAW.

Why use the time delay?

I have posted on here a conversion factor to display ZKLAMFAW as a gain percentage.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 14, 2014, 08:45:09 AM

Why use the time delay?


I assume you are referring to why I chose .2 seconds vs 0 seconds?  I guess these aren't final values that would be used, but more just to see what a constant value across the board would do.  I'd like to see a .2 second delay when you step on the throttle before lamfa kicks in so we get an understanding of how this table works.


I have posted on here a conversion factor to display ZKLAMFAW as a gain percentage.


I've seen that before.  I will look for that conversion again and apply it to the definition file.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 14, 2014, 09:27:40 AM
I guess these aren't final values that would be used, but more just to see what a constant value across the board would do.

Fine for experimenting, but the smoothing that ZK provides is a happy side effect, the more the better, but adding non-zero TLA means less smoothing for a given (total) delay.

Quote
I've seen that before.  I will look for that conversion again and apply it to the definition file.

I'm using 0.001526 in mbox (for 0-100%)

If you use 0.000015 you run out of precision. Stupid winols :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 14, 2014, 07:45:49 PM
Fine for experimenting, but the smoothing that ZK provides is a happy side effect, the more the better, but adding non-zero TLA means less smoothing for a given (total) delay.

I'm using 0.001526 in mbox (for 0-100%)


I've got the conversion for ZKLAMFAW set up according to this factor (x*0.001526), which is now displaying the ZKLAMFAW values as 2-digit numbers. What does it mean "gain percentage" like phila_dot said? Will Higher number produce more delay before LAMFA enrichment? or other way around? In your opinion, where should we leave the delay/smoothing effect to allow for daily-drivability? This is a stage 1 project after all.

If we can get this sorted, I'll flash and do another log to see where we're at.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 14, 2014, 08:16:48 PM
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2637.msg42320#msg42320

We need to find out which one is being used, and what the axis are first.

I'm running stock 20% on my 2.7t file, but the 2.7t only has one value, not a table.

100% (according to phila) is no filtering, but I have not personally tested it.

You could experiment by setting one of the tables to 100%, and leaving the other stock, to find out which one is used (and trying the opposite if it doesn't work).



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 14, 2014, 08:39:49 PM
Guys, I just want to say, this thread is great. Good work everyone.

With that said, I think we need to split it. Right now, we're at 100 percent IDC and about to modify additional fueling maps.

I would like to have a concrete stage1, where the hardware is NOT maxed. Very simple, fueling via LAMFA and boost via LDRXN. Then, we end it, and continue the BTS/ZKLAMFA discussion into a new thread, stage2.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 15, 2014, 04:41:34 AM
With that said, I think we need to split it. Right now, we're at 100 percent IDC and about to modify additional fueling maps.

I would like to have a concrete stage1, where the hardware is NOT maxed. Very simple, fueling via LAMFA and boost via LDRXN. Then, we end it, and continue the BTS/ZKLAMFA discussion into a new thread, stage2.

The problem is, IMO, simple changes like this won't result in an acceptable stage I tune.  If you are okay with a .90 fuel request for a stage I, then fine, but there is no way get a decent fuel request and stay out of BTS fueling and thus > 100% IDC using these methods.  We wouldn't be prodding this maps if we could get fueling to do what we wanted it to do via LAMFA.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: vwaudiguy on October 15, 2014, 08:26:40 AM
The problem is, IMO, simple changes like this won't result in an acceptable stage I tune.  If you are okay with a .90 fuel request for a stage I, then fine, but there is no way get a decent fuel request and stay out of BTS fueling and thus > 100% IDC using these methods.  We wouldn't be prodding this maps if we could get fueling to do what we wanted it to do via LAMFA.

I agree. Also since we aren't seeing timing pull yet, wouldn't we want to advance until we see some action?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 15, 2014, 02:48:37 PM
Not to distract from the above discussion, however I believe I located (but need verification) a few other maps that still required to be defined based on the current XDF or 2.7T STG 1 XDF. 
KFDLULS – I believe that this map does not exist,  click  (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6139.0), in this binary instead it should be KFDLUL
KFDLUL – 8x1, 27F47, 8 Bit
TABGBTS – 1x1, 26EB2, 16 Bit LSB First
NMAX – 1x1, 168A2, 16 Bit LSB First
NMAXF – 1x1, 1D83A, 16 Bit LSB First
NWPMBBR – 1x1, 10DC0, 8 Bit
VWPMBBR – 1x1, 10DDA, 8 Bit
VMAXNB – 1x1, 29F8C, 16 Bit LSB First


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 15, 2014, 04:08:41 PM
The problem is, IMO, simple changes like this won't result in an acceptable stage I tune.  If you are okay with a .90 fuel request for a stage I, then fine, but there is no way get a decent fuel request and stay out of BTS fueling and thus > 100% IDC using these methods.  We wouldn't be prodding this maps if we could get fueling to do what we wanted it to do via LAMFA.

I agree with this. I'm not after big numbers. If we can't get fueling dialed properly on the stock hardware, then I'll try turning things down and log again. I think we're close, and I (for one) would like to try a few more things. Is it simple? No. But that's ME7.

I do plan on upgrading some hardware in the future, and when I do, I'll be happy to work in the stage 2 project. For now, lets just see what is possible, and make it safe and drivable. Clearly the commercial stage 1 tunes are popular enough, there must be a way to make the stock hardware work for our purposes.

I agree. Also since we aren't seeing timing pull yet, wouldn't we want to advance until we see some action?

I think the consensus is that we will attempt small timing advance once our fuel and boost are optimized. I'm all for it.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 15, 2014, 07:13:21 PM
I made some modifications to the LAMFA table per SB_GLI's suggestion earlier (bring in fuel preemptively to get ahead of the time delays) and I'm going to try maxing out one of the ZKLAMFA tables like nyet suggested to see which one(s) actually works. I'll log again tomorrow and post a csv. Nyet, can you help me make sense of the differences? I'm not sure what to compare to see if LAMFA is on track?

Hopefully with enough enrichment at the right places, we'll avoid the  BTS from taking over and maxing out IDC. Or maybe I just need some bigger injectors........

I agree, it would be nice to have the ZKLAMFAW axis defined.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 15, 2014, 07:29:06 PM
Not to distract from the above discussion, however I believe I located (but need verification) a few other maps that still required to be defined based on the current XDF or 2.7T STG 1 XDF. 
KFDLULS – I believe that this map does not exist,  click  (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6139.0), in this binary instead it should be KFDLUL
KFDLUL – 8x1, 27F47, 8 Bit
TABGBTS – 1x1, 26EB2, 16 Bit LSB First
NMAX – 1x1, 168A2, 16 Bit LSB First
NMAXF – 1x1, 1D83A, 16 Bit LSB First
NWPMBBR – 1x1, 10DC0, 8 Bit
VWPMBBR – 1x1, 10DDA, 8 Bit
VMAXNB – 1x1, 29F8C, 16 Bit LSB First


A4Rich:

Are these locations for the 368072 version, or the 367307? I've decided not to entertain the 367307 for this project because it apparently has some fueling gremlins. If these work for 368072 I'll try and update my xdf. Thanks for your hard work!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 15, 2014, 08:13:28 PM
A4Rich:

Are these locations for the 368072 version, or the 367307? I've decided not to entertain the 367307 for this project because it apparently has some fueling gremlins. If these work for 368072 I'll try and update my xdf. Thanks for your hard work!

Just Rich is ok. :)

These are for 368072, I will email you the XDF I am working on. 

I came to the same conclusion as well...I think that most of defined maps in the other software will be straight forward to find... will just take some time.  Thanks ddillenger for detailing the reasoning you don't use the 367307!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 15, 2014, 08:27:58 PM
Thanks for your hard work!

I think I should be thanking you!  8)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 15, 2014, 08:48:33 PM
Should we include the P1681 control module programming not finished work around, click (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6719.0)?  I know the first time I read my ecu this happened...lol (now)

The byte to be changed appears to be located at 6B3AE.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 16, 2014, 04:29:49 AM
I made some modifications to the LAMFA table per SB_GLI's suggestion earlier (bring in fuel preemptively to get ahead of the time delays) and I'm going to try maxing out one of the ZKLAMFA tables like nyet suggested to see which one(s) actually works. I'll log again tomorrow and post a csv. Nyet, can you help me make sense of the differences? I'm not sure what to compare to see if LAMFA is on track?

I don't think we need to do that with lamfa now that we have the time delay/filter tables correctly defined.  I say we leave lamfa at what we really want it to be and work the zk/tlafa tables until we get what we want.  See my table value suggestions from a few posts back.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 16, 2014, 04:30:36 AM
Should we include the P1681 control module programming not finished work around, click (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6719.0)?  I know the first time I read my ecu this happened...lol (now)

The byte to be changed appears to be located at 6B3AE.

Ahh yes, there's that too.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ktm733 on October 16, 2014, 05:22:10 AM
I made some modifications to the LAMFA table per SB_GLI's suggestion earlier (bring in fuel preemptively to get ahead of the time delays) and I'm going to try maxing out one of the ZKLAMFA tables like nyet suggested to see which one(s) actually works. I'll log again tomorrow and post a csv. Nyet, can you help me make sense of the differences? I'm not sure what to compare to see if LAMFA is on track?

Hopefully with enough enrichment at the right places, we'll avoid the  BTS from taking over and maxing out IDC. Or maybe I just need some bigger injectors........

I agree, it would be nice to have the ZKLAMFAW axis defined.
Can you update the xdf please so I can define the the table in my xdf? Thank you. Great work but what I'm comfused about is when I read s4 tuning wiki they have a way different fueling strategy based off egt. How did you guys come up with this strategy?


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 16, 2014, 06:05:02 AM
The most recent xdf is on pg 1, post 1


Title: Re:
Post by: ktm733 on October 16, 2014, 06:48:30 AM
The most recent xdf is on pg 1, post 2

Awesome thank. Didn't know if they were recently update but I now have my answer.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ktm733 on October 16, 2014, 12:41:28 PM
Is anybody else having a hard time finding kftlafa also kfzlamfaw? I think I found the but then again im getting weird numbers. Close to yours but not identical.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 16, 2014, 02:13:38 PM
Is anybody else having a hard time finding kftlafa also kfzlamfaw? I think I found the but then again im getting weird numbers. Close to yours but not identical.

These were already defined in the xdf.  Are you using the correct software (0003)?


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 16, 2014, 03:09:07 PM
These were already defined in the xdf.  Are you using the correct software (0003)?
Yes, this. We're not going to be able to support every software version for this project, but you may be able to use the  8E0909518AK bin anyways. Post your stock bin with year/model and someone should be able to tell you. My own car was not AK to begin with, for example.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ktm733 on October 16, 2014, 04:12:14 PM
These were already defined in the xdf.  Are you using the correct software (0003)?
I using my own bin and just filling in my address instead of his. I has the 518f not ak so I cant use his. Ive defined tons of xds but his location I copy and find in my bin but its not lining up.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 16, 2014, 04:27:07 PM
I took a look at the stock log for reference.

It shows the same high calculated egts, bts fueling and high injector duty cycles.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 16, 2014, 04:30:17 PM
I using my own bin and just filling in my address instead of his. I has the 518f not ak so I cant use his. Ive defined tons of xds but his location I copy and find in my bin but its not lining up.

check right before lamfa for the zk maps.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 16, 2014, 04:31:51 PM
New log!,

Looks like IDC is ramping up steadily to about 5000rpm, and then bts kicks in and IDC goes to 100%

Not sure if this is better/worse than last log or if the modification to zklamfa table 1 worked. You guys mind having a look?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 16, 2014, 04:35:08 PM
Doesn't look like it worked.

Also, why is your lamfa RISING towards redline??! Can you log mrfa? (DriverRequestedRelTorque)?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 16, 2014, 04:37:55 PM
Doesn't look like it worked.

Also, why is your lamfa RISING towards redline??!

I was shooting for a bump of fuel in the midrange to avoid BTS fueling. Didn't work. Should I try the other zk table nyet? Maybe run the lamfa table rich from 3000 to redline?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 16, 2014, 04:40:13 PM
I was shooting for a bump of fuel in the midrange to avoid BTS fueling. Didn't work. Should I try the other table nyet? Maybe run the lamfa table rich from 3000 to redline?

It doesn't work that way. They don't add/multiply like that... the ecu takes the richest of LAMFA/BTS/KR (READ THE TUNING PAGE!)

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Result

Quote
The lowest value of the three (lamfa_w, lamfawkr, lambts) become your requested AFR.

LAMFA should be what you want. We'll fix BTS AFTER you get lamfa right.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 16, 2014, 04:53:50 PM
Doesn't look like it worked.

Also, why is your lamfa RISING towards redline??! Can you log mrfa? (DriverRequestedRelTorque)?

Ha ha.  Well, actually, it kinda did work, although I am not sure of what it is yet.  The fueling is better than it ever has been and egts are down.  It might be a little rich, and done completely wrong :), but it did get better than it was.

So, I take it you tried to fudge the numbers in lamfa to get a richer request right away?  Did you modify the zk, tlafa maps as well?  Use real numbers in lamfa if you are modifing zk.  I think I may have caused more confusion by suggesting that in the first place. Can you post the bin that that made this log file please?

edit: I see you said you made a modification to a zk table.  Pretty sure that worked.  If you have lamfa at fake values, fix them up to what you want your request to be.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 16, 2014, 05:02:17 PM
edit: I see you said you made a modification to a zk table.  Pretty sure that worked.

No, it did not... He just brought in LAMFA way early (like we asked him to heh)...

But since LAMFA resolution is so rough, we kinda need SOME ZK i think... if we just FF it, req afr is gonna be mega lumpy


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 16, 2014, 05:39:42 PM
So, I take it you tried to fudge the numbers in lamfa to get a richer request right away?  Did you modify the zk, tlafa maps as well?  Use real numbers in lamfa if you are modifing zk.  I think I may have caused more confusion by suggesting that in the first place. Can you post the bin that that made this log file please?

Here's the bin file to go with the log. If anyone is new to this, they should be warned that this file contains EXPERIMNENTAL table values, and IS NOT A FINISHED STAGE 1 file.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 16, 2014, 05:43:11 PM
Based on this file, what do you think I should try guys?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 16, 2014, 06:50:32 PM
I played around with the tables a bit, I'm going to run this tomorrow. Logs to follow.

-lamfa smoothed out, good and rich at 90% to ramp up, and very rich at WOT to redline.
-ldrxn tapered down slightly after 5k (I'm only logging to just over 6k and small turbo)
-zklamfaw_0_A table modified to 80%

whatcha think?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 16, 2014, 08:48:35 PM
I would increase the 1000 rpm row in the last two columns to something like .95, but otherwise looks good to me.  Log it!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 17, 2014, 04:24:33 AM
Log:


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 17, 2014, 04:55:22 AM
Log:

Horray!  I think we finally have LAMFA doing what we want it to do.  I still suggest that you modify the 1000 rpm row of lamfa to be something like .95.  Too rich too soon.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 17, 2014, 05:02:43 AM
Horray!  I think we finally have LAMFA doing what we want it to do.  I still suggest that you modify the 1000 rpm row of lamfa to be something like .95.  Too rich too soon.

Richening when you look at the throttle is not what you want it to do.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 17, 2014, 05:45:40 AM
What my fine friend here is trying to say is that we need to bring in LAMFA more smoothly.

Let's modify the LAMFA RPM axis to include a 2000 rpm row so we can better control the request during spool.

Then, let's use these values
1000, 1
2000, .84
3000, .82
.....
6500, .82

Then, we should raise TABGBTS (threshold for BTS enrichment) to 1000 and I think our fueling will be close to done.

I can get TABGBTS in the xdf if it is not already.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 17, 2014, 09:12:21 AM
I'd also maybe bump ZK back up a *touch*... filtering isn't bad considering how bad the resolution of LAMFA is.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 17, 2014, 12:33:34 PM
I can get TABGBTS in the xdf if it is not already.
I think i have it defined correctly but verification would be nice.
TABGBTS - 849.99 (Stock Bin) - 26EB2 16bit LSB First (conversion of 0.019531*X-50)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 17, 2014, 05:07:32 PM
I made some minor adjustments, including the lamfa column change (add 2000rpm row) and some ramp-up in the top of the lamfa table, and zklamfaw_0_A set to 60% across the board.

Log, table picture, and bin file


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 17, 2014, 05:16:29 PM
I think i have it defined correctly but verification would be nice.
TABGBTS - 849.99 (Stock Bin) - 26EB2 16bit LSB First (conversion of 0.019531*X-50)

Nice! Can anyone confirm this location?   ;D

Then, we should raise TABGBTS (threshold for BTS enrichment) to 1000 and I think our fueling will be close to done.

I can get TABGBTS in the xdf if it is not already.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 17, 2014, 05:22:17 PM
I made some minor adjustments, including the lamfa column change (add 2000rpm row) and some ramp-up in the top of the lamfa table, and zklamfaw_0_A set to 60% across the board.

Log, table picture, and bin file

60% is still to much... LAMFA is still lumpy
Also LAMFA isn't exactly smooth.. thats a weird dropoff you got going there..

Finally, BTS still triggering



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 17, 2014, 05:26:36 PM
want something like this


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 17, 2014, 08:20:10 PM
want something like this
I modified the lamfa table to hopefully get closer to your suggestion
Log:


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 17, 2014, 10:11:32 PM
uh


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 18, 2014, 05:42:04 AM
oops. back to the drawing board.  :-[

-I ditched the 90% adjustments for now, they're back to stock 14.7

-Completely re-arranged Lamfa's rpm axis values for more adjustment between 1k and 3500 (where I need it)

-Finally, adjusted the last  column lamfa values while looking at the graph

Here's a shot of the new lamfa profile

Log later today hopefully


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 18, 2014, 04:14:50 PM
Log for the latest lamfa adjustments. From what I can tell the afr curve is much more natural-looking, but BTS is still kicking in up top. I'm waiting for confirmation on the address before I attempt to modify the threshold, and truthfully I'm considering leaving TABGBTS alone for a bit of safety on stock hardware. The car is much more fun to drive already, and with a k03 I'm not expecting much extra push past 5k anyways. Opinions?

How does this log look?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 18, 2014, 06:48:26 PM
BTS is still kicking in up top. I'm waiting for confirmation on the address before I attempt to modify the threshold.

26EB2

As for leaving BTS as it is, I would not, but that's just me :P


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 18, 2014, 07:07:36 PM
Log for the latest lamfa adjustments. From what I can tell the afr curve is much more natural-looking, but BTS is still kicking in up top. I'm waiting for confirmation on the address before I attempt to modify the threshold, and truthfully I'm considering leaving TABGBTS alone for a bit of safety on stock hardware. The car is much more fun to drive already, and with a k03 I'm not expecting much extra push past 5k anyways. Opinions?

How does this log look?

Looking REAL good... might dial back ZK a tad - LAMFA is still lumpier than it needs to be. Also, are we sure 11.5 (0.78) isn't a bit rich for this application? IMO we should be able to get away with 12.5 at these boost levels... what do you think dd?

Ideally we'd need a dyno to be sure, but we could also do some FATS runs..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 18, 2014, 07:19:33 PM
Looking REAL good... might dial back ZK a tad - LAMFA is still lumpier than it needs to be. Also, are we sure 11.5 (0.78) isn't a bit rich for this application? IMO we should be able to get away with 12.5 at these boost levels... what do you think dd?

Ideally we'd need a dyno to be sure, but we could also do some FATS runs..

That's what I'd do. We're not pushing timing. Target an AFR of between 12 and 12.5 (I am partial to .8438) and bump TABGBTS a bit, call it a day.

Like Nye said, a *TOUCH* more filtering on LAMFA won't hurt.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 18, 2014, 07:21:06 PM
26EB2

As for leaving BTS as it is, I would not, but that's just me :P

Everything is coming together nicely in my opinion.  BTS has been tamed a bit since we started.   EGTs are down quite a bit too.  @ 5000-5250rpms we are over 100% fuel injector duty cycle, and then it goes down to 95% by 6000 rpm.    A bump of tabgbts, and lowering lrdxn @ 5000, and maybe a hair @ 5500 will be about all we need.  One might even raise ldrxn a bit from 4-4.5k.

We could also target a leaner AFR to get the FIDC's down a bit.

Get this done, log it, and then it looks like we can bump the timing up a bit more and we'll be good to good.

Edit:  I agree with everything said above.  They got theirs in while I was writing my reply.  After leaning out the AFR I think the timing will be perfect.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 19, 2014, 06:38:43 AM
Log and file:

I bumped up TABGBTS to 1001

Slight tapering of LDRXN

Lamfa adjusted leaner per DD's values

ZK just a bit less smoothing than stock
Will update xdf with TABGBTS later today


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 19, 2014, 06:55:45 AM
Log and file:

I bumped up TABGBTS to 1001

Slight tapering of LDRXN

Lamfa adjusted leaner per DD

ZK just a bit less smoothing than stock

FIDC is now maxes at 92% @ 5k.  Looks really good.  If it were me, I would raise LDRXN to get a little more out of it before 5k (3k-4.5k).  The TABGBTS changes makes bts barely kick in above 6k, so I think we are good there. 

Do we want to mess with timing at all?  There is some room to advance a bit, but I would be satisfied with how it is now.  Good work!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 19, 2014, 07:05:28 AM
FIDC is now maxes at 92% @ 5k.  Looks really good.  If it were me, I would raise LDRXN to get a little more out of it before 5k (3k-4.5k).  The TABGBTS changes makes bts barely kick in above 6k, so I think we are good there.  

Do we want to mess with timing at all?  There is some room to advance a bit, but I would be satisfied with how it is now.  Good work!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!
I'm not sure how much more boost we can handle with stock sidemount ic. 14psi hot air<13psi cold?

As for timing, I will gladly modify and log, if we can come to an agreement where to start. I have 0 experience with timing advance.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 19, 2014, 07:56:12 AM
Thanks!
I'm not sure how much more boost we can handle with stock sidemount ic. 14psi hot air<13psi cold?

As for timing, I will gladly modify and log, if we can come to an agreement where to start. I have 0 experience with timing advance.

It's really not that cut and dry.  14psi @ 4000 rpm is much different than 14psi @ 6000 rpm.  You have to think of the overall volume of air that is required to make that boost at that rpm with the turbo in question.  Looking at your intake temps, your only at 22.5 degrees at 5k.  4k is 15.75 degrees.  After 5k it goes up considerably.  As I said, I think you have some room to raise ldrxn before 5k.  I'm not saying we want to target boost higher than what we have now, I am saying we try to sustain a little bit longer.

As for timing, I think would could advance a bit, but didn't you say that you are running 94 oct gas?  I think with the current advance we might see some corrections if you ran 91 oct.  For the sake of learning though, we can add some timing so we can see/feel the benefit. 

We are logging rl, EngineLoad, which is the x axis (rl_w actually) on the kfzw maps.  Also, we logging wnwi_w (CamshaftAngle).  As the camshaft angle advances, we switch from KFZW2 to KFZW.  Based on the logs the camshaft angle is advancing between 5k and 5.5k.  So we use KFZW2 for changes below 5.5k and KFZW for changes above 5k.

The timing curve flattens out from 4k to 5.5k. I think we focus on changes above 4k.  I would add about 3.75 degrees at 6.5k tapering to .75 degrees at 4k.  The tricky part, it that you have to do this through the two different maps.  Just use your current log, and look at rl vs nmot to determine where you need to change values in the kfzw maps.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 19, 2014, 05:46:12 PM
Looking into the timing adjustments tonight, but I'm a little confused :-[


The timing curve flattens out from 4k to 5.5k. I think we focus on changes above 4k.  I would add about 3.75 degrees at 6.5k tapering to .75 degrees at 4k.  The tricky part, it that you have to do this through the two different maps.  Just use your current log, and look at rl vs nmot to determine where you need to change values in the kfzw maps.



I get the idea, but applying this to the maps is confusing me for some reason. I have some questions.

When you say look at rl (load?) vs nmot (rpm?) to determine where to change values, am I to change the values along this plotted line, above them or below them? I get the tapering idea and that I need more advance at higher rpm, but I'm stuck on how to interpret the maps.

I attached pictures of the maps and the rpm vs load chart if you can clarify I'd really appreciate it. ;D

xdf updated (post#2) to include TABGBTS



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 19, 2014, 09:25:57 PM
Any input for a 91 octane file, I was going to start by adjusting LAMFA for an 11.5 (.78) AFR.  Attached is my first try for LAMFA. 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 19, 2014, 09:35:21 PM
When you say look at rl (load?) vs nmot (rpm?) to determine where to change values, am I to change the values along this plotted line, above them or below them? I get the tapering idea and that I need more advance at higher rpm, but I'm stuck on how to interpret the maps.

I attached pictures of the maps and the rpm vs load chart if you can clarify I'd really appreciate it. ;D

Good post from ddillenger on the 2.7T community project thread.

Here is how I view logs for timing work:

(http://i.imgur.com/AIPbwwg.png)

If the camshaft angle is 0, that means KFZW is being used. If it is 22, that means we're in KFZW2.

In this log, we can see that from 3800 onward the values in KFZW are being used. Prior to that, it is KFZW2.

We can also see two knock events. One at 2200rpm, 150ish load. One at 2500, 160ish load. Take a look at the values for in KFZW where 2500rpm and 150 load intersect. Reduce timing in that area. NOTE! Just because CF is 3, does not mean you have to pull 3 degrees! One knock event at that RPM means CF's will be 3. This is actually not bad, and can be left as is, but I wanted to post for illustration purposes.

I would then suggest making sure KFZW/KFZW2 have the same values around 140-160 load at 3500-4000rpm to reduce the notch in timing. After that, relog. If you are not showing any CF's, I would then suggest adding more timing up top, from 4500 onward (to KFZW).


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 19, 2014, 09:39:59 PM
I tried to reproduce the graph from your latest log but don't see the cam switch... not sure what I am doing wrong.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 19, 2014, 11:44:12 PM
You are not doing anything wrong. Your file very rarely advances the camshafts, and never during a WOT pull in factory configuration. Thus, the camshaft angle is always 0 (a degree or two deflection is expected).


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 20, 2014, 03:25:56 AM
You are not doing anything wrong. Your file very rarely advances the camshafts, and never during a WOT pull in factory configuration. Thus, the camshaft angle is always 0 (a degree or two deflection is expected).

DD, when should I expect cam switch-over? I run the android "torque" app on my phone when I'm not logging to watch boost pressure and AFR, and I noticed that I overshoot my requested boost expectations in second gear pulls. Is this a result of camshaft advance? I want to adjust timing properly and include corrections for any possible knock events I'm not noticing while driving. Do we need a second gear pull log?

Also, if you can clarify re altering the timing maps based on rpm vs load:

-should adjustments to timing be made ONLY along this graph line?
-positive numbers mean timing advance?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 20, 2014, 03:45:30 AM
I have to look at that file again. Then I will tell you what the vvt schedule is :)

As for timing ONLY on the 3rd gear pull, of course not. Dial in WOT as it covers the broadest range of loads and RPM where performance is generally gauged. Then, fill in the rest. You obviously want a smooth timing table. It's a bit like art.

I wish I could be a bit clearer. Try viewing it in graph view/heatmap. You'll see.


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 20, 2014, 03:53:07 AM
Thanks again,  you're a prince


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 20, 2014, 09:45:35 AM
I just wanted to add the Torque App vs. Logs show some slight difference for me on the 2.7T for boost and slow data logging. I use the paid copy. Just wanted to point out its not that great at sample rate so beware. Idk if it works better for you, I use the mini blue elm327 connected to a galaxy s5.

My other question is do you have the app setup to get boost readings via MAF or MAP? Have you dialed in your baro pressure into the settings? It looks like you know what your doing. I'm just bringing things up that might help with using the app and the results.


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 20, 2014, 01:43:40 PM
I'm not relying on torque for logging, mostly to check codes etc on the go.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 20, 2014, 01:52:50 PM
Handy for watching fuel trims too..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 20, 2014, 02:29:53 PM
You are not doing anything wrong. Your file very rarely advances the camshafts, and never during a WOT pull in factory configuration. Thus, the camshaft angle is always 0 (a degree or two deflection is expected).
Thanks ddillenger, makes so much more sense!  I am also curious as to reason the camshafts are rarely advanced, any gains to be had on the stock turbo? 

I think I located the correct VVT map (KFNWSE @ 2C266, see attachment) with RPM and Load axes for normal operation (2 others in same area).  The value of 18 corresponds to 0 degrees and -4 corresponds 22. Correct?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 20, 2014, 02:57:02 PM
Thanks ddillenger, makes so much more sense!  I am also curious as to reason the camshafts are rarely advanced, any gains to be had on the stock turbo? 

I think I located the correct VVT map (KFNWSE @ 2C266, see attachment) with RPM and Load axes for normal operation (2 others in same area).  The value of 18 corresponds to 0 degrees and -4 corresponds 22. Correct?

Yes, there are gains to be had. I suggest logging stock, then advancing the camshafts until 2-300RPM after peak boost, then returning them to rest. Then, log again and compare time to speed.

NOTE!!!!

Don't take what I say as gospel. This is just my experience/opinion. The entire reason these threads never existed before is noone wants to declare anything with certainty and risk being incorrect. So, I am all for being taught a thing or two :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 20, 2014, 03:13:30 PM
Yes, there are gains to be had. I suggest logging stock, then advancing the camshafts until 2-300RPM after peak boost, then returning them to rest. Then, log again and compare time to speed.
Sounds like a good test plan! I think this next weekend I will be able to flash the stage 1 file as i have finally have the logger working on my computer and have a basic understanding/consequences of what I am adjusting in the bin.

NOTE!!!!

Don't take what I say as gospel. This is just my experience/opinion. The entire reason these threads never existed before is noone wants to declare anything with certainty and risk being incorrect. So, I am all for being taught a thing or two :)

Noted.  :)  Believe me I understand and have the same reservation as the consequences have the potential to be major.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: turboat on October 20, 2014, 03:31:50 PM
IIRC the VVT on the 1.8t is used for emissions, not for performance - according to the internets anyway.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 20, 2014, 05:38:03 PM
Would you say for the purposes of this project that we only have to modify kfzw?  Leave kfzw2 alone?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: vwaudiguy on October 20, 2014, 08:26:11 PM
Would you say for the purposes of this project that we only have to modify kfzw?  Leave kfzw2 alone?

Is there a downside to having the most advanced ign timing possible at all rpm/load points? Always wondered how much commercial tuners experimented with lower rpm and load points. Improvements for fuel mileage for instance..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 21, 2014, 03:36:52 AM
I have to look at that file again. Then I will tell you what the vvt schedule is :)

As for timing ONLY on the 3rd gear pull, of course not. Dial in WOT as it covers the broadest range of loads and RPM where performance is generally gauged. Then, fill in the rest. You obviously want a smooth timing table. It's a bit like art.

I wish I could be a bit clearer. Try viewing it in graph view/heatmap. You'll see.

I had anther look at the timing maps, and I'm still stumped. I'm seeing load values in the rpm-vs-load line that are off the chart in the timing map, what values does the ecu use in this case? If someone could post a screen of some stock and modified timing maps side-by-side, with the rpm/load graph I might understand better what is necessary. The degree of variation in these maps and how important they are to the health of the engine is a little scary to me.

To be honest I think I'm in over my head with the timing adjustment. Would anyone like to "pick up the torch"? I would gladly test/log any changes so that we have a series of logs on the same car.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mitkoenchev on October 21, 2014, 09:12:51 AM
I don't know if this is the right example, but that's what I have - stock 150bhp and tuned 190bhp for A4 1.8T AVJ. I hope it helps.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 21, 2014, 09:18:28 AM
I had anther look at the timing maps, and I'm still stumped. I'm seeing load values in the rpm-vs-load line that are off the chart in the timing map, what values does the ecu use in this case?

The highest axis value still on the chart

Quote
To be honest I think I'm in over my head with the timing adjustment. Would anyone like to "pick up the torch"? I would gladly test/log any changes so that we have a series of logs on the same car.

Time to pick up an EFI book :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 21, 2014, 09:23:36 AM
I don't know if this is the right example, but that's what I have - stock 150bhp and tuned 190bhp for A4 1.8T AVJ. I hope it helps.

I don't think it is a good idea to mess with any low load/rpm timing values. Generally, the factory does a good job there.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 21, 2014, 09:28:37 AM
I had anther look at the timing maps, and I'm still stumped. I'm seeing load values in the rpm-vs-load line that are off the chart in the timing map, what values does the ecu use in this case? If someone could post a screen of some stock and modified timing maps side-by-side, with the rpm/load graph I might understand better what is necessary. The degree of variation in these maps and how important they are to the health of the engine is a little scary to me.

To be honest I think I'm in over my head with the timing adjustment. Would anyone like to "pick up the torch"? I would gladly test/log any changes so that we have a series of logs on the same car.

Okay, I'll try to illustrate the initial timing changes that I would make.

In the image entitled "new timing", you see the current timing curve which is the bright green line.  I've drawn with blue the timing curve I would like to achieve, more or less.  The changes noted below is my attempt at making the green like look more like the blue line I drew in.

Starting with the original values, I can see that we are making load that is off the end of the kfzw load axis.  So, I first would modify that axis to better fit our application.  In the last log I can see our load goes from 165 early on in the revs and tapers almost linearly down to 128 at 6000.  I will pick 165 as our last axis value, and move the 140 row back where 130 is now.  I then took the values from the last column (was 140) and pasted them into the second to last column (now 140).  Then I just took the values of the last row and took 1.5 degrees off of it.  I looked at the graph to verify that all the new values made a smooth transition at the end of the map.

The image entitled one shows where I then took areas from log where the timing flattens out, I added 2.25 degrees in the areas that needed more in the upper revs, and 1.5 degrees in the lower areas.  Now, you'll see I end up with a map that's lumpy.  This is were you can unleash your inner artist and smooth it all out.  I defined the two areas that I just modified as my "high points" of the maps, so I won't adjust those much more upward.  After you get done smoothing the curve, you should end up with something more like the image entitled two.

Most of the changes that I have made here equates to around 1.5 to 2.25 degrees advancement over the stock map.  It's tricky to see that though due to how the load axis was modified.

I would then take these changes, flash them, log them, and look for any timing correction factors.  If there are any CF's I would retard a bit at that rpm/load that the CFs started.  If we are still at 0 for cfs, I would continue to advance the timing in increments of 1.5-3.0 in the areas needed until I just barely start seeing CF's and then finally adjust that area down a hair.

Hope that all makes sense.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 21, 2014, 09:30:18 AM
The highest axis value still on the chart

Is there no interpolation after the last axis value?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 21, 2014, 10:12:53 AM
The ecu uses the data in the last cell for any areas in excess of that axis data. No extrapolation takes place.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: vjborelli on October 21, 2014, 11:54:03 AM
I might be wrong here, but I've been trying to map out all 3 of the US B6 1.8T ECM's (F, AF, AK) and as I understand, there is a different in timing conversion calculations due to the different processors used in the AF & AK ECM. The only way I can get the injection times to match up between the two different processors is through the following:

518F has a 20mhz processor @ conversion 0.00266667

518AF & 518AK has a 40mhz processor @ conversion 0.004

518F (2002)
03 A5 (LoHi) = 933 (DEC) * 0.0001111112 "0.002666667 / 24" = 0.10367


518AF (2003) & 518AK (2004-2005)
02 6E (LoHi) = 622 (DEC) * 0.0001666667 "0.004 / 24" = 0.10367


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 21, 2014, 12:05:58 PM
The ecu uses the data in the last cell for any areas in excess of that axis data. No extrapolation takes place.
This is good to know.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 21, 2014, 07:27:56 PM
 8) 8) 8) BIG THANKS to all the people taking time out of their day to help with this project  8) 8) 8)

I took the plunge and made some *small* adjustments to the top end timing on map kfzw (which I assume will have me covered, since we've determined the camshaft angle isn't advancing in this range).

I followed the rpm/load graph line and made increases of 2.25* to the 6720 rpm areas, tapering down to .75* in the 4000rpm area. I then went to work "smoothing out" these adjustments in graph view. I double-checked my numbers (to make sure I didn't add too much or somewhere I didn't intend to) and flashed the file to the car. I also extended the LDRXN profile to 5k, and rounded out the adjustment. Version 9 log tomorrow, what parameters do I need to log to watch for timing corrections?



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 21, 2014, 08:06:11 PM
Hey DD,

What map addresses do I need to add the pushbutton SAI, EVAP, CAT deletes? I've been meaning to get around to adding these to match the s4 project xdf.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ktm733 on October 21, 2014, 08:34:13 PM
This is good to know.

Yes exactly what I was trying to say. I compared them and it didn't line up. Also fueling maps didn't line up either. Atleast there is a defined 518f file I can compare to. Also to let everybody know don't load ak file onto 518f! It will not run then its time for boot mode. Learn from my mistakes.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 21, 2014, 08:49:54 PM
Yes exactly what I was trying to say.

No, extrapolation/interpolation is an entirely different topic.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 22, 2014, 04:25:24 AM
log


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 22, 2014, 05:21:38 AM
log

The changes to timing look very nice.  I still think we can advance more, especially down low.  We are still not seeing any timing CFs anywhere in the pull.  These are the IgnitionRetardCyl1-4 (dwkrz) variables.  Also, wkrm holds the average CF on all cylinders.  zwist is your timing angle.

I see we are hitting bts fueling again though at the end.  What do you have TABGBTS set to?

I still think you can bump up LDRXN a bit more.  I'd try to make the load/boost plateau more up to 4,500rpm and the drop as illustrated.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 22, 2014, 09:22:55 AM
log

Less ZK still. It still doesn't look like you touched that. Also, BTS...


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 22, 2014, 01:39:03 PM
TABGBTS was 1001, upping that to 1100 for next flash. I'm also going to set ZK back to stock, as nyet is still seeing a rough lamfa curve? A bit more LDRXN in the 3-5k range, a bit more timing. Log and file soon


Title: Re:
Post by: nyet on October 22, 2014, 01:46:52 PM
I'm also going to set ZK back to stock, as nyet is still seeing a rough lamfa curve?

Dude, use ECUxPlot yourself :P geez. You should ALREADY be using it to verify every change you make.

Stock ZK is probably too low, do something in between.

BUT VERIFY WITH ECUXPLOT... don't post, and wait for comment here. You're doing it the long way around ;P

Flash, log, graph, adjust, flash, log, graph

Not

flash, log, post, wait for somebody to graph it for you and/or make comments.


Title: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on October 22, 2014, 02:04:27 PM
Dude, use ECUxPlot yourself :P geez. You should ALREADY be using it to verify every change you make.

Stock ZK is probably too low, do something in between.

BUT VERIFY WITH ECUXPLOT... don't post, and wait for comment here. You're doing it the long way around ;P

Flash, log, graph, adjust, flash, log, graph

Not

flash, log, post, wait for somebody to graph it for you and/or make comments.

Or just use VisualME7Logger to playback the log you just took.  Of course I am partial to VME7L ;)  Many ways to skin the cat, but yeah, you need to be able to view and understand your own logs.


Title: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on October 22, 2014, 02:06:10 PM
TABGBTS was 1001, upping that to 1100 for next flash. I'm also going to set ZK back to stock, as nyet is still seeing a rough lamfa curve? A bit more LDRXN in the 3-5k range, a bit more timing. Log and file soon

That doesn't make sense to me, I didn't see calced EGTs reach 1000 in your last log.


Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 23, 2014, 03:22:52 AM
Dude, use ECUxPlot yourself :P geez. You should ALREADY be using it to verify every change you make.

Stock ZK is probably too low, do something in between.

BUT VERIFY WITH ECUXPLOT... don't post, and wait for comment here. You're doing it the long way around ;P

Flash, log, graph, adjust, flash, log, graph

Not

flash, log, post, wait for somebody to graph it for you and/or make comments.
Sorry if the way I'm posting is bothering you guys. I was thinking it would be important to have a progression, working out the bugs in detail. If you want, I'll slow down the updates to questions or problems only.  I'm already using ECUxPLOT to look at my logs, I just don't always know what to make of the results


Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on October 23, 2014, 04:29:22 AM
Sorry if the way I'm posting is bothering you guys. I was thinking it would be important to have a progression, working out the bugs in detail. If you want, I'll slow down the updates to questions or problems only.  I'm already using ECUxPLOT to look at my logs, I just don't always know what to make of the results

not bugging me, and I appreciate all the updates.  Just want to make sure that you can plot and decipher the logs yourself.  You are doing good work!


Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: nyet on October 23, 2014, 09:02:49 AM
Sorry if the way I'm posting is bothering you guys. I was thinking it would be important to have a progression, working out the bugs in detail. If you want, I'll slow down the updates to questions or problems only.  I'm already using ECUxPLOT to look at my logs, I just don't always know what to make of the results

Ok. Not a problem then. Carry on!


Title: Re:
Post by: turdburglar44 on October 23, 2014, 10:54:59 AM
Great thread, sad I didn't see it until now.

My 2 cents.

I strongly dislike using ldrxn to 'tune' boost. Doing this partially ruins the ecus ability to compensate for altitude. If I were to tune my car using ldrxn then drive from Denver to Breckenridge. The ecu would attempt to hit those loads assuming kfldhbn didn't intervene. This would push the turbo very far out of it's efficiency range. I prefer to use kfldhbn to limit boost. Kfldhbn is a pressure ratio and will adjust boost according to atmospheric pressure and IAT.

What I would do:
-Write the k03 compressor map into kfldhbn.
-Give the tune to someone at sea level
-Have them see what loads they are hitting
-tune timing for these loads and set ldrxn to the loads they are seeing.

This way we would have an absolute ceiling to our load and the tune wouldn't blow molten lava for us in Denver.

Second:

I strongly dislike using lamfa for fueling. I know that's a huge debate but in order to get timing perfectly optimized you need to know exactly what load and afr you are dealing with.

Example;
If I were to tune a chiller at work. I would have it scale with the cooling load. Not with what people have their thermostats set to.

I'll re-up my 360910 xdf. I've added some things that might be useful.
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6341.0

*edit* link added


Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 23, 2014, 06:10:37 PM
not bugging me, and I appreciate all the updates.  Just want to make sure that you can plot and decipher the logs yourself.  You are doing good work!
Ok. Not a problem then. Carry on!

Thanks guys. I'm so happy to have the help I'm getting here!! ;D

I've got a new revision almost ready to go with the following adjustments

-more timing refinements
-exaggerated LDRXN profile in the 3-5k range (still having a hard time getting boost in this area to match the profile I want)
-TABGBTS set to 1100
-ZK set to stock +10%
I can't log this tonight, but tomorrow morning I'll do a run and post the results. I think we're close.


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 23, 2014, 06:23:23 PM
Great thread, sad I didn't see it until now.

My 2 cents....................

I'll re-up my 360910 xdf. I've added some things that might be useful.
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6341.0

*edit* link added

I think the idea behind this thread and the 2.7 stage 1 thread is to have an "introduction to tuning" for brand new users to see the process and learn how to make adjustments based on logs. To get their feet wet, and hopefully spark some interest in learning.

We are intentionally using LAMFA and LDRXN for the sake of simplicity, not because it's the right or wrong way technically. See discussion at the beginning of the 2.7t thread.
y
That xdf is huge 8). I can't use it with my car right now, software version is different. I'd have to start over with the matching bin file, if possible. The maps don't line up. Very nice xdf for anyone who can use it!



Title: Re:
Post by: turdburglar44 on October 23, 2014, 06:42:11 PM
With lamfa fueling couldn't you still request max load at stoich? Kfmirl requests way too much load stock.


Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: turdburglar44 on October 23, 2014, 06:46:17 PM
I think the idea behind this thread and the 2.7 stage 1 thread is to have an "introduction to tuning" for brand new users to see the process and learn how to make adjustments based on logs. To get their feet wet, and hopefully spark some interest in learning.

We are intentionally using LAMFA and LDRXN for the sake of simplicity, not because it's the right or wrong way technically. See discussion at the beginning of the 2.7t thread.
y
That xdf is huge 8). I can't use it with my car right now, software version is different. I'd have to start over with the matching bin file, if possible. The maps don't line up. Very nice xdf for anyone who can use it!

If you need to find maps though they should compare like for like.

And I apologize I read most of the thread before I posted that. Afterwards I read the full thread and got a better grasp on what we're trying to achieve.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
Latest log, as promised ;D


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 24, 2014, 01:56:49 PM
ZK :P


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 24, 2014, 03:36:12 PM
ZK :P

So by bringing ZK closer to the stock values now it is reducing the steps, circled in the graph, to a more smooth curve?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 04:22:37 PM
I'm going to try changing the values early in the table (they are highest therefore least filtered) and see what comes back on a new pull. This fueling "knee" curve is elusive.....I wish we knew what the axis are for these tables :'(


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 24, 2014, 04:34:44 PM
(they are highest therefore least filtered)

It doesn't work that way

Quote
I wish we knew what the axis are for these tables :'(

The XDF is still missing RPM axis location? Whut?


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 04:48:36 PM
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2637.msg42320#msg42320

We need to find out which one is being used, and what the axis are first.

I'm running stock 20% on my 2.7t file, but the 2.7t only has one value, not a table.

100% (according to phila) is no filtering, but I have not personally tested it.

You could experiment by setting one of the tables to 100%, and leaving the other stock, to find out which one is used (and trying the opposite if it doesn't work).
I'm basing my assumption on the idea that 100% zk is no filtering. Perhaps thats not the case with me7.5?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: phila_dot on October 24, 2014, 05:24:05 PM
No filtering, so it jumps straight to the target value.

Input -> filter -> output

Target 0.85

100%
1 -> 100 -> 0.85

50%
1 -> 50 -> 0.925
0.925 -> 50 -> 0.8875
0.8875 -> 50 -> 0.8675
and so on until it reaches 0.85

0%
1 -> 0 -> 1


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 05:50:59 PM
Thanks phila. That's exactly the explanation I needed!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 24, 2014, 05:55:29 PM
Phila's a rockstar for sure.


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 06:14:08 PM
Double sure ★


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: phila_dot on October 24, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
What address is being used for ZKLAMFAW?





Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 06:37:07 PM
Hang on.... flashing....will tell you 2mins


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 06:40:25 PM
ZKLAMFAW_0_A 0x26B04


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 24, 2014, 06:54:21 PM
New log zk set to 25% first two columns, all others stock.

softer knee. Maybe too late actually getting to max enrichment? looking better though I think. Car feels good ;D


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: phila_dot on October 24, 2014, 06:56:01 PM
Looked real quick and saw:

something1 <= lamfafil_w <= lamrlmn_w
     Then ZKLAMFAW (0x26C3C)
 Else
     0x26B04 (axis?) 0x181DC (data?)

something1 comes from the same map, but the axis? address is 0x26A44.

I will try to take a deeper look later on.


Title: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on October 24, 2014, 08:09:16 PM
ZKLAMFAW_0_A 0x26B04

That's KFZKLAMFA_0_A.   Not the same?  I am pretty sure the changes that have been made were to this.

ZKLAMFAW is defined at 26C3C, but what size map is this?



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 24, 2014, 08:10:44 PM
New log zk set to 25% first two columns, all others stock.

softer knee. Maybe too late actually getting to max enrichment? looking better though I think. Car feels good ;D

No you're good, you dont want it too rich on spool.. I think it's lookin good!

Now time to work on timing!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on October 25, 2014, 08:25:12 AM
No you're good, you dont want it too rich on spool.. I think it's lookin good!

Now time to work on timing!

Yep.  Let's just work on timing and then call this stage I complete. 

Then we can move onto a stage II thread :)  As soon as you modify irl/iop you are going to unleash some more power.    As is stands now, it looks like you have ldrxn way higher than what is available through irl/iop. 

I bet if you were to shave down ldrxn considerably there wouldn't be a difference.  Ex: 160 @ 3000 to 145 @ 5,500 in ldrxn would likely net the same results.

For timing, I would still focus on advancing from 2.5 to 3.5k and also above 5k for a nice even curve.



Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 25, 2014, 09:58:23 AM
Yep.  Let's just work on timing and then call this stage I complete. 

Then we can move onto a stage II thread :)  As soon as you modify irl/iop you are going to unleash some more power.    As is stands now, it looks like you have ldrxn way higher than what is available through irl/iop. 

I bet if you were to shave down ldrxn considerably there wouldn't be a difference.  Ex: 160 @ 3000 to 145 @ 5,500 in ldrxn would likely net the same results.

For timing, I would still focus on advancing from 2.5 to 3.5k and also above 5k for a nice even curve.
I agree. I'm hitting a cap with the LDRXN. I'll do some work on the timing today and see how it goes on a pull. I'm also going to bring LDRXN down to where it was previous revision until we visit stage two town. 8)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 26, 2014, 06:31:22 AM
New log, the car is running really well  ;D. I'm thinking about stopping here for the stage 1 tune, provided there aren't any trouble spots. I still don't see any timing corrections, fuel is where it should be, and boost is good enough for now.  How does the new timing look?

I'm going to do 1st, 2nd and 4th gear pulls to see if there are any weird spots that need ironing out. I'll post the latest bin file below.

Have a look everyone, and let me know if there are any bad things going on that my untrained eye has missed. I'll correct and re-log.

Thanks a million for all the help along the way, this forum is truly amazing. My next task is to  add some emissions codewords for SAI, EVAP, etc

*edit* checksum error on previous bin file corrected


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 26, 2014, 07:24:20 AM
Ok I found mslub, but no luck on CDLDP & CDTES for evap. Little help please?:-*


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 26, 2014, 12:23:40 PM
Ok I found mslub, but no luck on CDLDP & CDTES for evap. Little help please?:-*

I havn't had a chance to look through the 0003 software bin yet but I these are the locations from the 0004 XDF that I have. 

CDLDP 181A8
CDTES 181B2

These might be the correct locations for 0003 too as the locations of other CDs (CDHSH and CWDLSAHK) were the same.  Speaking of CDs, does anyone have a lead on CLRSHK?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 27, 2014, 10:39:04 AM
Stage 1 v13 file posted needed error fixed.

(http://i62.tinypic.com/2z86xqv.png)


Corrected file attached below.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 27, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
Stage 1 v13 file posted needed error fixed.

(http://i62.tinypic.com/2z86xqv.png)


Corrected file attached below.



Damn, how did that happen. My bad, and thank you for the updated file. Taking the bad one down now. :-[


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 27, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
I havn't had a chance to look through the 0003 software bin yet but I these are the locations from the 0004 XDF that I have. 

CDLDP 181A8
CDTES 181B2

These might be the correct locations for 0003 too as the locations of other CDs (CDHSH and CWDLSAHK) were the same.  Speaking of CDs, does anyone have a lead on CLRSHK?

Rich, I just compared the hex from both files, and yes, they are in the same location. Thanks again.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 27, 2014, 07:34:17 PM
Just incase anyone has to bootmode recovery this ecu. I made a quick how-to after I had to recovery a ecu today and had the info already downloaded. Just wanted to share the info.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7125.msg66007#msg66007


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 27, 2014, 08:52:23 PM
Rich, I just compared the hex from both files, and yes, they are in the same location. Thanks again.

Awesome! 


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on October 28, 2014, 03:19:12 AM
Just incase anyone has to bootmode recovery this ecu. I made a quick how-to after I had to recovery a ecu today and had the info already downloaded. Just wanted to share the info.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7125.msg66007#msg66007

Sorry you had to go through all this man :-[. I'll double-check all files before posting from now on. I really don't know how it got modified after I checksummed it. Glad to see you recovered the ecu! Sorry again.


Title: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on October 28, 2014, 05:14:46 AM
Sorry you had to go through all this man :-[. I'll double-check all files before posting from now on. I really don't know how it got modified after I checksummed it. Glad to see you recovered the ecu! Sorry again.

Let that be a lesson to anyone who just downloads a flashes a file without verifying it with ME7Check/ME7Sum first.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 28, 2014, 11:35:41 AM
I don't mind, learned how-to. And mistakes happen. I have posted a file I forgot to fix. I also have made files with tunerpro and used a xdf without my MTX plugin added in and forgot. Loaded it to my car and flashed. I just wanted to share my process of recovering the ecu incase someone else makes a mistake like me in the future.

I don't blame you. I should have checked it. 5 seconds of checking would have saved us 2 hrs cause my friend had like no tools at his house. Not like me where I had everything buy Dremel cut off wheels. Which I will now add to my shopping list.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: BlkSerialKilla on October 28, 2014, 09:36:44 PM
The information in this thread is substantial!  :) I will be switching sw versions after understanding the gremlins in version 0004.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on October 29, 2014, 01:25:02 AM
I don't mind, learned how-to. And mistakes happen. I have posted a file I forgot to fix. I also have made files with tunerpro and used a xdf without my MTX plugin added in and forgot. Loaded it to my car and flashed. I just wanted to share my process of recovering the ecu incase someone else makes a mistake like me in the future.

I don't blame you. I should have checked it. 5 seconds of checking would have saved us 2 hrs cause my friend had like no tools at his house. Not like me where I had everything buy Dremel cut off wheels. Which I will now add to my shopping list.

Im not sure if its been mentioned before but if you use MTX plugin or the MPPS to checksum it will leave the CRC error which at somestage will lock the ecu up. Only way to checksum is to winols it and then use the me7checksum tool to make sure its done. ( unless MTX has now fixed this with their plugin?!)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on October 29, 2014, 01:52:39 AM
Dan: ME7Sum is done and error free :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on October 29, 2014, 03:39:06 AM
Dan: ME7Sum is done and error free :)

Thank you, Just seen and tested... Nice work....


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on October 29, 2014, 04:38:45 PM
I was talking about the MTX plugin when using it on ME7 files for the S4/A6. To correct the files for this project I use the newest release of ME7Sum


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: BlkSerialKilla on October 29, 2014, 07:29:07 PM
Figured I would throw this up here I anticipate stage 2 coming to a theater near us so I searched for more tables in the 0003 binary. Attached to pick what is needed out of it  :)



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 30, 2014, 03:31:49 AM
Figured I would throw this up here I anticipate stage 2 coming to a theater near us so I searched for more tables in the 0003 binary. Attached to pick what is needed out of it  :)



You're a prince.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on October 30, 2014, 03:39:09 AM
Before we begin the Stage 2 project (new thread) I would like to see some reports and logs from the Stage 1 file on other cars. My car is running well, but I might be missing some drivability problems due to my short commute and heavy foot.

I would also like to discuss beforehand what is to be expected from the Stage 2 file. We will certainly need some hardware upgrades. We need to decide which parts are a good compromise of performance vs value.

What do you think?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on October 31, 2014, 03:59:51 AM
Not had a chance to read through this all but has vvt switching been mentioned yet?

Kfnwse...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on October 31, 2014, 07:20:01 AM
Not had a chance to read through this all but has vvt switching been mentioned yet?

Kfnwse...

KFNWSE was located @ 2C266 and ddillenger provided some advice however I don't think it was implemented yet however.

Yes, there are gains to be had. I suggest logging stock, then advancing the camshafts until 2-300RPM after peak boost, then returning them to rest. Then, log again and compare time to speed.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: fukenbroken on October 31, 2014, 07:25:49 PM
Not had a chance to read through this all but has vvt switching been mentioned yet?

Kfnwse...

why you asking if you know about useless vvt onk03turboblahblah?
 anyway if someone wants to test it - i just copied some maps from BAM and it worked. maybe its more than enought but it 100% works.

Code:
SCALAR: CWNWGE                                                            1.00               
SCALAR: CWNWSE                                                           40.00               
SCALAR: CWNWSG                                                            0.00               
SCALAR: CDTENWS                                                          733.0               
SCALAR: CDTENWSE                                                         745.0               
TABLE: KFNWSE                                                     

   U/min                        %
            9.75   15.00   25.99   31.01   36.00   69.75  110.25  150.00
  7000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6999.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6998.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6997.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  4000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  3000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1480.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
   720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001


TABLE: KFNWWLE                                                     

   U/min                        %
            9.75   15.00   25.99   31.01   36.00   69.75  110.25  150.00
  7000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6999.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6998.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6997.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  4000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  3000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1480.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
   720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001


SCALAR: DNLLSNW                                                         2520.0 U/min         
TABLE: FNWTME                                                     

       -   Grad C
            0.00   39.75   80.25   99.75
            0.0000  0.0000  1.0001  1.0001


SCALAR: TANW                                                            -15.00 Grad C         
TABLE: TVNWSTTM                                                   

       -   Grad C
          -20.25    0.00   20.25   60.00
             102.4   102.4   102.4   102.4


SCALAR: WNWSEAPP                                                       2304.00               
TABLE: SRL08NEUW (KFNWSE axis)                                     

                                 
            0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00
    0.00      9.75   15.00   25.99   31.01   36.00   69.75  110.25  150.00


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 01, 2014, 03:13:26 AM
The reason for asking was very simple. The vvt maps on the original is very different to as you did, the Bam setup. And on the ak it doesn't make use of the vvt as well as the bam. So my question was made because if you used it properly I'm sure it will help the stage 1 files. In much the same way using vvt on the golf's 032hn/hj which only uses it for warm benefits from having vvt during spool.


 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: turdburglar44 on November 01, 2014, 06:37:52 PM
I believe axes for kfnwse are columns @138D6 and rows @1398C.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 01, 2014, 11:01:51 PM
I believe axes for kfnwse are columns @138D6 and rows @1398C.

I looked at the axes for kfnwse, load axis looks ok but the rpm axis doesn't look right.  The address that have seen used before are @ 13924 AND @ 13974... not sure ???  See attachment for values.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 03, 2014, 02:03:42 AM
I looked at the axes for kfnwse, load axis looks ok but the rpm axis doesn't look right.  The address that have seen used before are @ 13924 AND @ 13974... not sure ???  See attachment for values.


138bc    ----RPM


13974   ----load



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: giles92 on November 15, 2014, 06:50:01 AM
Can this stage 1 xdf and bin be flashed to a 4B0906018DQ 05 Passat AWM ECU? If not could the 518AK ecu plug and play into my car with some calibrations? I have searched but i cant find much on the DQ ecu.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 15, 2014, 06:59:30 AM
Can this stage 1 xdf and bin be flashed to a 4B0906018DQ 05 Passat AWM ECU? If not could the 518AK ecu plug and play into my car with some calibrations? I have searched but i cant find much on the DQ ecu.
i know in the uk the 018dh from the Passat works with the ak/Al flash and is the only compatible Ecu I found, I'm not sure on the dq but if you can bench flash then I suggest giving it ago as the worst case you just flash back the original..

Just add though I think I might have flashed the Al/ak eeprom onto the dh Ecu, so you might need to look at that as well.. Might need confirming if it's required


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on November 16, 2014, 07:18:17 AM
I've been looking into the IOP/IRL modifications and I found that the tables in the xdf are inverted, which means I cant copy/paste to the calculator spreadsheet. How do I go about making (duplicate) inverted tables to work from for this purpose? I tried swapping the axis locations and all I got was gibberish for values


Title: Re:
Post by: A4Rich on November 16, 2014, 08:53:13 AM
I've been looking into the IOP/IRL modifications and I found that the tables in the xdf are inverted, which means I cant copy/paste to the calculator spreadsheet. How do I go about making (duplicate) inverted tables to work from for this purpose? I tried swapping the axis locations and all I got was gibberish for values

Perhaps you missed the change of the major axis drop box, see attachment of KFMIOP.  It also helps is you have the axis defined separately and just link to them (don't have to change the conversion factors on the KFMIOP row and column axes).


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on November 16, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
I just need to get my buddy 2 step and NLS into this file and he will be happy. If he didn't work so much I'd be able to get some logs to post up.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 17, 2014, 10:25:41 PM
why you asking if you know about useless vvt onk03turboblahblah?
 anyway if someone wants to test it - i just copied some maps from BAM and it worked. maybe its more than enought but it 100% works.

Code:
SCALAR: CWNWGE                                                            1.00               
SCALAR: CWNWSE                                                           40.00               
SCALAR: CWNWSG                                                            0.00               
SCALAR: CDTENWS                                                          733.0               
SCALAR: CDTENWSE                                                         745.0               
TABLE: KFNWSE                                                     

   U/min                        %
            9.75   15.00   25.99   31.01   36.00   69.75  110.25  150.00
  7000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6999.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6998.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6997.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  4000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  3000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1480.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
   720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001


TABLE: KFNWWLE                                                     

   U/min                        %
            9.75   15.00   25.99   31.01   36.00   69.75  110.25  150.00
  7000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6999.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6998.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6997.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  6000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  5000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  4000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
  3000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2520.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  2000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1480.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000  -4.000
  1000.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001
   720.0    18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001  18.001


SCALAR: DNLLSNW                                                         2520.0 U/min         
TABLE: FNWTME                                                     

       -   Grad C
            0.00   39.75   80.25   99.75
            0.0000  0.0000  1.0001  1.0001


SCALAR: TANW                                                            -15.00 Grad C         
TABLE: TVNWSTTM                                                   

       -   Grad C
          -20.25    0.00   20.25   60.00
             102.4   102.4   102.4   102.4


SCALAR: WNWSEAPP                                                       2304.00               
TABLE: SRL08NEUW (KFNWSE axis)                                     

                                 
            0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00
    0.00      9.75   15.00   25.99   31.01   36.00   69.75  110.25  150.00

Been looking for the rest of these maps with no luck, I have KFNWHE, KFNWRE, KFNWSE defined with the correct axes (thanks littco)... is it necessary (recommended?) that these other maps be defined?  The stock bin appears (based on logging) to be activating VVT per KFNWSE as well as KFNWHE.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: fukenbroken on November 18, 2014, 06:31:12 AM
Been looking for the rest of these maps with no luck, I have KFNWHE, KFNWRE, KFNWSE defined with the correct axes (thanks littco)... is it necessary (recommended?) that these other maps be defined?  The stock bin appears (based on logging) to be activating VVT per KFNWSE as well as KFNWHE.



i was tryed KFNWSE only with no luck on my 06A906032DR AUM engine, cant say about yours.. just try :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 18, 2014, 11:23:54 AM
i was tryed KFNWSE only with no luck on my 06A906032DR AUM engine, cant say about yours.. just try :)
032dr is only using vvt for warm up...

On these wse is enough to change vvt...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 19, 2014, 02:53:31 AM
032dr is only using vvt for warm up...

On these wse is enough to change vvt...

Just to add you need to set CDNWS to 3 ( set to 2 on the AK file)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 19, 2014, 07:50:58 AM
Just to add you need to set CDNWS to 3 ( set to 2 on the AK file)

Thanks again, found it at 181AF.  Would you mind explaining more about what changing from 2 to 3 means?.  From golf damos I have it is described as Codewort DNWS abschalten (EURO-Codierung), CD..=0 -> keine Diagnose... so changing to 0 turns off the diagnostic.


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 20, 2014, 08:16:19 AM
Speaking of CDs, does anyone have a lead on CLRSHK?

Think I have located CLRSHK (8bit) @ 12379 with a decimal value of 16 but confirmation would be nice.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: masterj on November 21, 2014, 03:26:54 AM
Some summary has to be done in first post of this thread.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 21, 2014, 09:31:32 PM
Some summary has to be done in first post of this thread.

I edited the original post to better introduce the thread. Hope it's what you had in mind masterj.

In other news, I've been messing with kmfirl and kmfiop (see pic). I have "Italian tuned" the KMFIRL table by multiplying all values by 1.15. I then plugged these numbers into berTTos' interpolator excel spreadsheet and adjusted the column header numbers for the KMFIOP map.

The interpolator did its magic and gave me a table to copy over to tunerpro. I made some modifications to the LDRXN table to allow for the increased load specified by my new KMFIRL.

I flashed the file and took the car for a drive. First impression is wow. My boost pressure is now increased to 15-16psi and feels very fun to drive. I did notice some weirdness on WOT pulls. I logged a few pulls. With more boost I'm seeing timing corrections now where before I had none. I pulled all of the timing advance I had previously put in and logged another pull which I will post here.

When I got home I looked at the log and couln't make sense of what I was seeing. I went back to the KMFIRL/KMFIOP modifiacations I had made, and realized that I didn't change the KMFIOP load and rpm axis in my bin to match the modified axis in the excel spreadsheet. Would this explain what I'm seeing in the logs? I'm obviously going to put the correct values into the KMFIOP table and retry the file on the car. It's just that I've never seen this in a log. It almost felt like my clutch was slipping, and then grabbed again. Really weird.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 21, 2014, 11:40:32 PM
I edited the original post to better introduce the thread. Hope it's what you had in mind masterj.

In other news, I've been messing with kmfirl and kmfiop (see pic). I have "Italian tuned" the KMFIRL table by multiplying all values by 1.15. I then plugged these numbers into berTTos' interpolator excel spreadsheet and adjusted the column header numbers for the KMFIOP map.

The interpolator did its magic and gave me a table to copy over to tunerpro. I made some modifications to the LDRXN table to allow for the increased load specified by my new KMFIRL.

I flashed the file and took the car for a drive. First impression is wow. My boost pressure is now increased to 15-16psi and feels very fun to drive. I did notice some weirdness on WOT pulls. I logged a few pulls. With more boost I'm seeing timing corrections now where before I had none. I pulled all of the timing advance I had previously put in and logged another pull which I will post here.

When I got home I looked at the log and couln't make sense of what I was seeing. I went back to the KMFIRL/KMFIOP modifiacations I had made, and realized that I didn't change the KMFIOP load and rpm axis in my bin to match the modified axis in the excel spreadsheet. Would this explain what I'm seeing in the logs? I'm obviously going to put the correct values into the KMFIOP table and retry the file on the car. It's just that I've never seen this in a log. It almost felt like my clutch was slipping, and then grabbed again. Really weird.

Looks like with the adjustments to KMFIRL/KMFIOP your peaking out the fuel injector duty cycle at 105%.  Is this a desirable situation ???


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 22, 2014, 06:28:54 AM
Yes, 15% more KMFIRL has put me into the red with IDC. More and more I'm wanting new injectors....For now, I'm going to redo the increase to 10% and correct the axis error I made. I'm also going to cut back LDRXN after 4000 to try and save a bit more headroom in IDC, which peaks out around 5000.

I'll log later today if possible



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: bk56190 on November 22, 2014, 08:06:21 AM
Don't change KFMIRL, only LDRXN;


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 22, 2014, 04:59:32 PM
Yes, 15% more KMFIRL has put me into the red with IDC. More and more I'm wanting new injectors....For now, I'm going to redo the increase to 10% and correct the axis error I made. I'm also going to cut back LDRXN after 4000 to try and save a bit more headroom in IDC, which peaks out around 5000.

I'll log later today if possible



Would like to see maps when your done, just starting to look into KMFIRL/KMFIOP. 

Know what you mean about the injectors... how about a 6.0 bar fuel filter/regulator from a B7?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 22, 2014, 07:04:27 PM
Is that regulator/filter direct fit for A4? That would be a very simple upgrade (my filter is probably partially clogged by now anyways) and would allow for much more fuel. Is it fairly easy to scale the fueling for higher fuel pressure?

Is the stock 1.8t fuel pump up to the task of maintaining higher pressure?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 22, 2014, 11:44:10 PM
Is that regulator/filter direct fit for A4? That would be a very simple upgrade (my filter is probably partially clogged by now anyways) and would allow for much more fuel. Is it fairly easy to scale the fueling for higher fuel pressure?

Is the stock 1.8t fuel pump up to the task of maintaining higher pressure?
Maybe, we should create a new thread in the vehicle tech section for the B6 A4 and not clutter this one that does not apply to most others??

The filter should work, 2.0t guys have been installing the 1.8t filters on accident...  The B6 1.8t filter has 3 and some times 4 ports.  When I replaced mine it had 4 ports, the 4th port is a vent line that can be blocked off when using a 3 port version.  This an interesting thread with good information about the 4 port fuel filter, click (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/419394-Fuel-pressure-too-high). 

Tuning wise we would be modifying KRKTE and TVUB.  Using some online calculators the flow values are: 
B6 1.8t injectors 282cc @ 3bar or 398cc @ 6bar
TT225 injectors 386cc @ 3bar or 445cc @ 4bar

The stock pump probably would not be up to the task however @ 105K miles I am thinking of replacing mine with a DW300.

I think increasing the fuel pressure especially considering the the B6 dose not have a manifold reference would provide beneficial results (Bosch EV12 information indicates that maximum system pressure of 8bar) . 

Edit: B6 fuel injector information.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Fadelight on November 23, 2014, 07:03:08 AM
Just for clarification... the bin in the OP is a stock file, even though it is titled "STG1"?


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 23, 2014, 07:29:11 AM
Just for clarification... the bin in the OP is a stock file, even though it is titled "STG1"?
Yes. This file is stock. There are some tuned files later in the thread, but it is advisable to fully understand the changes and what they do.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Fadelight on November 23, 2014, 08:21:22 AM
Will they work with an AWM engine?



Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 23, 2014, 09:07:57 AM
Will they work with an AWM engine?
Post your bin and someone may be able to tell you


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Fadelight on November 23, 2014, 10:12:29 AM
Here it is.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on November 23, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
I've been wanting to know this too. Apart from the returnless fuel system, are there any significant differences between B6 and B5 ME7.5?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 23, 2014, 07:43:04 PM
Here it is.

This is the ID for your file. I don't personally know if the 518AK file can be cross-flashed, but someone might....

==============================================================================
ME7Check v1.12 (c) mki, 06/2004-05/2012
Checking file C:\Users\Pc\Desktop\Tuning\bins\Modified_Files\AWM_Stock.bin (size
=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 05.12
-> EPK = 40/1/ME7.5/5/4012.01//24b/Dst01o/110700//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261207216'         (SSECUHN)
   - '1037360101'         (SSECUSN)
   - '4B0906018CH '       (VAG part number)
   - '0001'               (VAG sw number)
   - '1.8L R4/5VT     '   (engine id)
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - 'HW_MAN004'

-> No errors found. File is OK.   *********************

Press any key to continue . . .



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on November 23, 2014, 08:31:33 PM
018CH and 518AK are not compatible.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 23, 2014, 09:50:31 PM
Am working on updating coil dwell to match the 2.0t coils that I have been using for the past several years.  I located the appropriate 518AK 004 (wrong version... will update with 003) maps (FTSDRLW, FSWTM, KFSZDUB, KFTSRL) based on this thread, click (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=445.msg31292#msg31292).  Still working on verifying the appropriate values.



Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on November 24, 2014, 04:30:08 AM
I'm still getting weird resilts from modifying KMFIRL/KMFIOP. The performance is increased but I'm getting what I can only assume is torque intervention.  On WOT Car pulls like hell and then *sometimes* feels like a wheel is spinning, which is not the case. The rpm remains the same but the car stops accelerating.  Then power comes on again and it pulls fine right to redline. I'm going to try and catch it on a log today and log the torque intervention variables to see if that's whats going on


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: KmosK04 on November 24, 2014, 06:17:13 AM
As I'm having the same problem with IRL/IOP can somebody give a clear explanation how to tune those 2 maps and how to log and understand if is everything working fine?


Title: Re:
Post by: littco on November 24, 2014, 10:43:00 AM
I'm still getting weird resilts from modifying KMFIRL/KMFIOP. The performance is increased but I'm getting what I can only assume is torque intervention.  On WOT Car pulls like hell and then *sometimes* feels like a wheel is spinning, which is not the case. The rpm remains the same but the car stops accelerating.  Then power comes on again and it pulls fine right to redline. I'm going to try and catch it on a log today and log the torque intervention variables to see if that's whats going on

Log timing and you'll probably see massive timing swings.

some people say with proper iml/iop you wont get torque intervention which is very true.

I say just ditch it, turn off the TI and never worry about it again..


Title: Re:
Post by: nyet on November 24, 2014, 10:46:14 AM
Log timing and you'll probably see massive timing swings.

some people say with proper iml/iop you wont get torque intervention which is very true.

IMO easiest way to fix irl/iop is to shift everything but the first 3 columns (load) down a column (deleting column 3), including load axis values, and adding a last column for the highest load req in irl (or ldrxn) and setting it to 99. I'll try to get a screen shot time permitting.

You can use also the IOP calculator, but i would not touch anything in the stock values below say 50% load.

Quote
I say just ditch it, turn off the TI and never worry about it again..

Generally not a good idea, you'll just get level 2 torque intervention.


Title: Re:
Post by: littco on November 24, 2014, 11:17:08 AM
IMO easiest way to fix irl/iop is to shift everything but the first 3 columns (load) down a column (deleting column 3), including load axis values, and adding a last column for the highest load req in irl and setting it to 99. I'll try to get a screen shot time permitting.

You can use also the IOP calculator, but i would not touch anything in the stock values below say 50% load.

Generally not a good idea, you'll just get level 2 torque intervention.

I was kind of suggesting, modify mil/iop for the increase in load and turn of TI as well, that way you shouldn't get TI or level 2.. 


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on November 24, 2014, 03:40:39 PM
I made some adjustments to LAMFA today and drove the piss out of my car trying to catch the bog I was experiencing on a log. It didn't come back. I made the fueling come on a little later, kind of a softer ramp from 1 to .84. Is it possible that with the new higher boost request I was simply flooding the engine during spool? Would this cause a bog spot at what should be peak boost?

I'll post a log of my current flash when I get home


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 24, 2014, 06:16:56 PM
And here's the log.

Not sure if I like how the "italian job" feels on my car. I had to pull out all the timing to avoid corrections and while there is more boost, the throttle response has suffered a bit.

I'm going to work out nyet's suggestion and see how that feels. I'm starting to wonder if I should buy a project car ie s4 ;) so I don't blow up my daily. I've got the bug, boys.

nyet: I don't have the KMFIRL axis' defined to alter the load values per your suggestion, could someone help me set this up?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on November 24, 2014, 08:00:21 PM
You can't just multiply the entire table by 15 percent. If you feel it's limiting you, increase the last 2 rows, then rescale IOP to suit.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 24, 2014, 08:25:56 PM
You can't just multiply the entire table by 15 percent. If you feel it's limiting you, increase the last 2 rows, then rescale IOP to suit.

Yeah I learned this the hard way. For the record, the last log is entire table times 1.10, and KMFIOP scaled with the excel calculator and load axis modified. After trying a few more things with KMFIRL (shifted tables over 1 column like nyet said), I like the way the latest revision feels to drive. But realisitically I'm out of fuel injector duty cycle. The stock hardware dream is over daz...I'm going to need those fuel injectors.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 24, 2014, 08:54:05 PM
I don't have the KMFIRL axis' defined to alter the load values per your suggestion, could someone help me set this up?

See attached XDF. :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 24, 2014, 11:57:24 PM
fter trying a few more things with KMFIRL (shifted tables over 1 column like nyet said)

hmm was saying just do that to IOP.

for KFMIRL you only really need to raise the last two or three columns, and you can leave the axis alone...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 25, 2014, 01:51:51 AM
Yeah I learned this the hard way. For the record, the last log is entire table times 1.10, and KMFIOP scaled with the excel calculator and load axis modified. After trying a few more things with KMFIRL (shifted tables over 1 column like nyet said), I like the way the latest revision feels to drive. But realisitically I'm out of fuel injector duty cycle. The stock hardware dream is over daz...I'm going to need those fuel injectors.

You could always try the TT 225bhp IML/IOP ...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 26, 2014, 07:39:28 PM
So I've decided the KMFIRL/KMFIRL modifications must wait. I like how these tables open up more power, but I simply can't fuel the car beyond 4000rpm. I went back to the drawing board today and came up with a new revision that has less boost (stock IRL/IOP), but more timing.

I did a log, and I noticed my requested load is quite a bit lower than my specified load until it starts to ramp down (following LDRXN profile) at 5500rpm. Is this a result of HBN or some other function? Posting a log and the graph showing what I'm seeing. My IDC is managable now, I think I can afford a bit more push in the area where requested doesn't match specified.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 26, 2014, 07:54:21 PM
log ldlrts and ldrlms

also if you have stock IOP you might be getting slow path torque limiting.

You'd have to log the various torque variables referenced in the torque intervention section of the tuning wiki (misol, miszul etc)... some of them aren't autodetected by me7l so you'll probably need IDA or something to find them.

I think you should have mifa, miist, misol, miszul though


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 26, 2014, 08:01:45 PM
Thanks nyet.

I put the variables into my log config. I'll re-log in the morning and post the csv. I have all of these: mifa, miist, misol, miszul.

Typo on ldlrts? My config detects ldrlts and ldrlms. Engine and turbo protection functions?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 27, 2014, 05:24:48 AM
Here's the log with the new variables.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 27, 2014, 12:34:16 PM
Here's the log with the new variables.

Your mifa (reqested torque) is significantly below driver requested torque (mrfa). You'll need to increase the last load column of IOP so that it generates a torque request high enough to output a load request (from IRL) that meets rlmax, or make sure IRL requests a load that meets rlmax at 75ish torque and above.

Not sure how to explain this more clearly, it is kind of confusing. I have reworded the s4wiki tuning page some.. you can review it again if you like.

HBN looks fine.

mizul (torque intervention limit by timing cut) looks fine.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 27, 2014, 05:38:51 PM
Your mifa (reqested torque) is significantly below driver requested torque (mrfa). You'll need to increase the last load column of IOP so that it generates a torque request high enough to output a load request (from IRL) that meets rlmax, or make sure IRL requests a load that meets rlmax at 75ish torque and above.

The area that needs improvement is everything before 5500rpm. After your suggestion I thought about increasing IRL in the 2000-5500 areas at 75 torque and above, and leave the higher rpm range where it is? Should I re-do the IOP with the Excel tool after changing IRL or leave it alone?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 27, 2014, 07:47:31 PM
The easiest thing to do is just increase the last column of IOP to 99%... I have had good success with the IOP tool, but ONLY in the higher load/torque areas.

Everything else is best left stock (you can also shift columns down, along with the axis values, if you need room up top)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 27, 2014, 08:08:11 PM
Ok thanks nyet. I'm going to try a few ideas and I'll post a log when I think it's right.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 28, 2014, 10:12:28 PM
Here's the latest log. I feel like I'm getting close to the limit with the stock hardware. The IDC is under control now, maxing out at 95%. Fueling is (mostly) doing what it should I think, and timing is optimized in the higher rpm range (literally no more advance possible without corrections).

Setting the last column of IOP to all 99 did the trick, and I also modified IRL to request the load I expect to see from LDRXN at those rpm ranges. After these adjustments I needed to go back and trim LDRXN down to bring the IDC's back under 100%. Requested load is now right along with specified load. Thanks for the help nyet! 8) prince 8)

So basically, I'm looking to fine-tune all the nits and hang this one up. I'll post the actual bin file when it's done. The car feels quite fun to drive now, but somehow I feel like this is just the beginning.....


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on November 28, 2014, 10:14:46 PM
Good work. I find nothing worth criticizing in your log!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 28, 2014, 10:27:53 PM
Thanks D. I'm really happy with the project. Mostly now I just want to make sure it's bullet-proof. Then it's on to bigger and faster things I guess. This train doesn't stop does it?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on November 28, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
Thanks D. I'm really happy with the project. Mostly now I just want to make sure it's bullet-proof. Then it's on to bigger and faster things I guess. This train doesn't stop does it?

Never.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 29, 2014, 12:07:11 AM
FanTASTIC job Leroy! You should be proud. Job well done.

Now you need to get a 2.7t so you can go save the completely stalled 2.7t community project :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 29, 2014, 01:35:56 AM
Logs really good.

It compares well to the stage 1 I have on my BFB running around 150maf grams as well, altough I'm guessing its quite cold where you are at the moment? During the summer when I was logging mine I was only ending up with 12 degrees timing at the top end compared to your 20 and that was on 99ron fuel as well, IATS were up to 40c though on the run...



Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 29, 2014, 06:28:03 AM

I'm guessing its quite cold where you are at the moment? During the summer when I was logging mine I was only ending up with 12 degrees timing at the top end compared to your 20 and that was on 99ron fuel as well, IATS were up to 40c though on the run...

Yes It was -2*C ambient last night. I didn't consider the effect of air temp on timing advance. Is there a correct way to tune timing for temperature variance? I know the ECU will pull timing if there is knock, but it would be cool to prevent pull if possible.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on November 29, 2014, 10:20:05 AM
FanTASTIC job Leroy! You should be proud. Job well done.

Now you need to get a 2.7t so you can go save the completely stalled 2.7t community project :)

I think I'll pop my head in there and do some work on my allroad.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 29, 2014, 06:50:48 PM
Here's the *finished* file. I'm sure there will be 25 more revisions after this one, but it's pretty much all I can do with stock equipment. I'm going to re-name the original file in the OP "stock" and put the tuned file here, so anyone who wants it will hopefully read through the thread.

This is the 24th version of this file on my car, and that's only counting the versions that were different enough to warrant keeping the old one for comparison. It's been a labour of love, and I'm very greatful to all the great people on this forum who have helped me to learn.

I'm going to continue to "refine" the file and if I see small improvements, I'll post them.



Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on November 30, 2014, 09:28:15 AM
Yes It was -2*C ambient last night. I didn't consider the effect of air temp on timing advance. Is there a correct way to tune timing for temperature variance? I know the ECU will pull timing if there is knock, but it would be cool to prevent pull if possible.
Kftarx is about it which is load based. So it pulls load when temps rise.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on November 30, 2014, 05:17:36 PM
Here's the *finished* file. I'm sure there will be 25 more revisions after this one, but it's pretty much all I can do with stock equipment. I'm going to re-name the original file in the OP "stock" and put the tuned file here, so anyone who wants it will hopefully read through the thread.

This is the 24th version of this file on my car, and that's only counting the versions that were different enough to warrant keeping the old one for comparison. It's been a labour of love, and I'm very greatful to all the great people on this forum who have helped me to learn.

I'm going to continue to "refine" the file and if I see small improvements, I'll post them.



Leroy et al., thank you.  This thread is great; fantastic tool for learning!

I have a couple of questions based on the latest bin you posted, anyone please feel free to jump in.
1.  Is it necessary to adjust KFMDS, KFZWOP, and KFZWOP2 based on the change made to KFMIOP load axis as it is shared?

2.  The bin doesn't include the P1681 Work around, is the consensus still that it should be included for all 2004+ cars?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 30, 2014, 05:21:42 PM
1.  Is it necessary to adjust KFMDS, KFZWOP, and KFZWOP2 based on the change made to KFMIOP load axis as it is shared?
ABSOLUTELY! The easiest way by far is to just move columns/rows around, so you don't have to re-interpolate stuff. This is generally the case whenever you change axis data that is shared.. trouble is, an incomplete mappack might not have all the maps that share a given axis, so it can be a bit of guessing game, unless you are good with IDA.

Quote
2.  The bin doesn't include the P1681 Work around, is the consensus still that it should be included for all 2004+ cars?

Maybe? hopefully others can chime in on this, I have no personal experience on this topic :(

BTW I can't express how happy I am about this thread. Really. Truly. Thanks everybody!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on November 30, 2014, 05:28:42 PM
Anything >03 should include the P1681 workaround IMO. It doesn't ALWAYS happen, but when it does, it can ruin your day.

In sw 368072, it is 0x6B3AE
in sw 369307, it is 0x6B598

2D--->0D to kill the code.

I too am pleased at the direction of this thread. I think this is 100x better than the alternative. I'm going to simplify it and clean it up at some point once we have a concrete conclusion. I'd really like to see some logs of another car or two with the same file before we call it conclusive.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on November 30, 2014, 06:39:15 PM
Leroy et al., thank you.  This thread is great; fantastic tool for learning!

I have a couple of questions based on the latest bin you posted, anyone please feel free to jump in.
1.  Is it necessary to adjust KFMDS, KFZWOP, and KFZWOP2 based on the change made to KFMIOP load axis as it is shared?

2.  The bin doesn't include the P1681 Work around, is the consensus still that it should be included for all 2004+ cars?

I didn't adjust any of the other maps that share the KFMIOP load axis. Oops. Like I said, 25 more revisions ahead. Also, the P1681 work around... this will avoid no start condition after reading back the file with nef??

I guess it's a good idea to do the map adjustments for the KF group and re-log just to check for any other ill effects. I've already started "tweaking" a few things here and there on the file anyways.....What does KFMDS do? I don't have it in xdf. Where might I find it?

I too am pleased at the direction of this thread. I think this is 100x better than the alternative. I'm going to simplify it and clean it up at some point once we have a concrete conclusion. I'd really like to see some logs of another car or two with the same file before we call it conclusive.

I totally agree about cleaning this up. I was actually thinking of making a "walk-through" including all steps and links to theory on how to make the Stage 1 file. Then it could just be a closed thread "intro to tuning me7.5", leaving this thread for discussion and future optimizing of the file. This would be a large undertaking though, so it might take me a while.

And yes, we need some logs on other cars, with different conditions than mine. I've got the advantage of cool ambient temps and decent gas at the pump. Would be good to troubleshoot and show solutions for other people's cars.

Cheers everyone, lets make this great.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: em.Euro.R18 on December 01, 2014, 10:16:04 AM
I think you will end up needing something like this in order to get lamdba where you want it at .85 with those time delays active
1k .80
3k .76
4k .79
5k .83
6k .84

No need to lean it up top. You'll find little gain by requesting .84 lambda. Keeping it at .82 will keep things cool and safe with little to no sacrifice in the power curve.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 01, 2014, 01:29:17 PM
I've ported your maps to an 018CH bin and looking to do some logs, what variables should I log? I've taken it for a quick drive and even not going above 3/4 throttle it feels great, but I wanna know for sure everything's safe before I really push it.

As an aside, I edited the KFZWOPs to reflect the changed axis, wanna know if I did the right thing. I moved each of the bottom 3 rows up by 1 and kept the bottom row the same. Is that fine or should I try to somehow extrapolate the bottom row values based on the previous 2-3 rows?

Also, what's the logic behind the LAMFA axis changes? Why compress the RPM axis? More mid-RPM resolution? Why stretch out the requested torque axis in the areas where it's all 1 (under 90)? Wouldn't it be better to have more resolution in the upper load range where the values aren't 1?

I apologize if these questions are stupid or have been answered in the thread, I'm just starting to learn this stuff.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on December 01, 2014, 01:42:59 PM
No need to lean it up top. You'll find little gain by requesting .84 lambda. Keeping it at .82 will keep things cool and safe with little to no sacrifice in the power curve.

Yeah, this was a bad suggestion on my part.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 01, 2014, 01:48:05 PM
I've ported your maps to an 018CH bin and looking to do some logs, what variables should I log?

Code:
dwkrz_0
dwkrz_1
dwkrz_2
dwkrz_3
dwkrz_4
dwkrz_5
etazwbm
fldrrx_w
fr_w
frm_w
frxt
frxta_w
gangi
lambts_w
lamfa_w
lamfaw_w
lamsbg_w
lamsoni_w
ldimn_w
ldimx_w
ldimxak_w
ldrlts_w
ldtvm
ldtvr_w
mdverl_w
miasrl_w
mifa_w
misol_w
miszul_w
msdk_w
mshfm_w
nmot_w
perffilt_w
plsol_w
ps_w
pu_w
pvdkds_w
rl
rl_w
rlmax_w
rlmx_w
rlroh_w
rlsol_w
tabgm_w
tanslin
te_w
ti_b1
tmotlin
uhfm_w
wdkba
wkrm
wped_w
zwgru
zwist
zwopt
zwout
zwsol

Quote
I moved each of the bottom 3 rows up by 1 and kept the bottom row the same. Is that fine or should I try to somehow extrapolate the bottom row values based on the previous 2-3 rows?

should be fine

Quote
Also, what's the logic behind the LAMFA axis changes? Why compress the RPM axis? More mid-RPM resolution? Why stretch out the requested torque axis in the areas where it's all 1 (under 90)? Wouldn't it be better to have more resolution in the upper load range where the values aren't 1?

The idea is to get lamfa to be as smooth as possible in areas where it will be changing a lot. I haven't looked carefully at the lamfa for this project lately, so I can't comment if it is done correctly, but from leroy's logs, the results seem good, compared to other implementations of LAMFA that i've seen (including some i've done myself lol)

Quote
I apologize if these questions are stupid or have been answered in the thread, I'm just starting to learn this stuff.

They are all EXCELLENT questions, no apologies needed!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 01, 2014, 01:57:10 PM
Awesome, I'll try to get some logs tonight when the traffic dies down.

Here's the LAMFA map for reference:(http://i.imgur.com/FuERmsP.jpg)

I'm loving the tune, my only complaint (and it's barely even a complaint) is that it feels a bit too touchy between 3k and 4k rpm. It's harder to modulate the throttle and keep a steady speed than stock. The torque in first is amazing, seriously caught me off guard the first time I stepped on it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 01, 2014, 02:00:53 PM
BTW that last 1.0 in the bottom right hand corner is problematic :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 01, 2014, 02:37:20 PM
Whoops, good catch. Must've missed it when copying the values over. Good thing I posted that.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on December 01, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
Whoops, good catch. Must've missed it when copying the values over. Good thing I posted that.

I would also enrich at the 90 percent column.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 01, 2014, 03:09:49 PM
I would also enrich at the 90 percent column.

I agree, especially now that I have seen plenty of logs with mrfa<90%, even wot :(


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on December 01, 2014, 03:12:56 PM
I agree, especially now that I have seen plenty of logs with mrfa<90%, even wot :(

Yep.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 01, 2014, 03:59:38 PM
I agree, especially now that I have seen plenty of logs with mrfa<90%, even wot :(
Going to get this done tonight for the AK file. I've changed the KFZWOP maps and added the p1681 workaround.

I've added a tiny bit more to LDRXN to the 2500-4500 range. Also took out .75* timing in a few places after reviewing a multi gear log at various load/speed driving.

I'll post the updated file with all of the changes when I'm done fixing LAMFA tonight.

Madcow: nyet is correct about why I chose to change the rpm axis for LAMFA. I wanted to have a smoother curve as the values changed. The feel of this tune IS aggressive,  that's what I like. Ramp down LDRXN in the range thats bugging you if you like, but you might find that your foot will adjust. Mine did :D


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on December 01, 2014, 05:38:52 PM
I would also enrich at the 90 percent column.

I personally like to enrich down to the 80% column as well, but not as rich as the 90 and 100 columns so that some enrichment starts at 70.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 01, 2014, 07:10:26 PM
Ok, here's what I came up with for the 90% column enrichment, as well as a peak at the extra LDRXN. The 97% LAMFA enrichment is slightly tweaked, and the 90% column is the same curve, but higher up in value (see pic). Does this look ok to you guys?

I'm going to flash and log this tomorrow morning, and post results. If it's good I'll post the bin Tunedv2.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on December 01, 2014, 07:32:00 PM
Try to envision where you'll hit peak load with 90 percent mrfa. This is where you want to hit peak enrichment.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 01, 2014, 07:48:02 PM
Try to envision where you'll hit peak load with 90 percent mrfa. This is where you want to hit peak enrichment.
Should the max enrichment for the 90% column be the same as max for 97.5?

Is there a part of a log or another table I can consult to see what load is doing at 90% mrfa?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 01, 2014, 07:56:55 PM
Should the max enrichment for the 90% column be the same as max for 97.5?

Is there a part of a log or another table I can consult to see what load is doing at 90% mrfa?

This is a tricky question, because the input to KFMIRL isn't actually mrfa... it is misopl1, which is from mrfa->mifa->milsol, which is back-corrected by timing retard efficiency (etazwbm) and .... drum roll... fueling efficiency (etalab) ... see MDFUE in the FR.

That is to say, misopl1 might be quite a bit higher than mrfa post fueling correction...

Since half of that stuff you can't log, check out rlsol, and from that you can tell what the input to KFMIRL is for a given RPM.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 01, 2014, 08:10:33 PM
This is a tricky question, because the input to KFMIRL isn't actually mrfa... it is misopl1, which is from mrfa->mifa->milsol, which is back-corrected by timing retard efficiency (etazwbm) and .... drum roll... fueling efficiency (etalab) ... see MDFUE in the FR.

That is to say, misopl1 might be quite a bit higher than mrfa post fueling correction...

Since half of that stuff you can't log, check out rlsol, and from that you can tell what the input to KFMIRL is for a given RPM.

And now my brain just exploded. Seriously dude you know your shit. I'll look at some logs and see what I come up with. Do you suggest I go to .8438 (same as 97.5) in the 90% column or something less like stock and the graph I posted above?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 01, 2014, 09:15:01 PM
Did some pulls, requested load is dropping off pretty sharply after 3500 rpm, especially in the 2nd pull. Something's screwy, but I can't figure out what.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 01, 2014, 09:20:32 PM
Did some pulls, requested load is dropping off pretty sharply after 3500 rpm, especially in the 2nd pull. Something's screwy, but I can't figure out what.

I don't see anything obviously wrong with that log...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 02, 2014, 04:11:52 AM
The max requested load (LDRXN) for the stage 1 file tapers down to the stock value by redline. The curve is designed not to exceed the limitations of a small stock turbocharger, and small stock fuel injectors. If we request any more load (and therefore boost) after about 4500rpm the injector duty cycle will be well over 100%

I see you have timing corrections all over your pulls. What fuel are you on? You might need to dial back KFZW (compare the stage1 table vs the stock table) to bring timing into check.

Here's a pic of the LDRXN curve from tunerpro.

On a second look, it looks like your load requested is actually more than your load specified. Not sure what to make of that.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 02, 2014, 07:31:17 AM
Ok cool, I thought it was odd that your last log showed requested load plateau at around 3k and held there until 5k-ish before it drops significantly while mine peaks at 3.5k and drops off instantly. Injector duty cycle also just barely reaches 80%, so there still should be a bit of headroom, no? I was running 93 octane, so it shouldn't be pulling any timing.

I noticed the weirdness with load too, maybe due to some difference in how load is calculated between the different software? Your load specified closely follows fload corrected while in my case requested follows corrected. I'm guessing that spike in mine at 3.5k was because I only started the run at 3k. My actual AFRs are also always under desired, is that a LAMFA issue?

Just to confirm, I copied over KFZW, KFMIOP - load axis, KFMIRL, LAMFA - both axes, TABGBTS, LDRXN. I couldn't find ZKLAMFAW but it shouldn't have too much bearing, would be nice if I could lower it though.

It seems like there's a whole bunch of small problems with my run, nothing serious but enough to make me wanna look into it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 02, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
Ok cool, I thought it was odd that your last log showed requested load plateau at around 3k and held there until 5k-ish before it drops significantly while mine peaks at 3.5k and drops off instantly. Injector duty cycle also just barely reaches 80%, so there still should be a bit of headroom, no? I was running 93 octane, so it shouldn't be pulling any timing.

I noticed the weirdness with load too, maybe due to some difference in how load is calculated between the different software? Your load specified closely follows fload corrected while in my case requested follows corrected. I'm guessing that spike in mine at 3.5k was because I only started the run at 3k. My actual AFRs are also always under desired, is that a LAMFA issue?

Just to confirm, I copied over KFZW, KFMIOP - load axis, KFMIRL, LAMFA - both axes, TABGBTS, LDRXN. I couldn't find ZKLAMFAW but it shouldn't have too much bearing, would be nice if I could lower it though.

Your log is showing timing corrections even with the 93 octane. Check timing overall vs timing requested. If the triangles don't line up, the ECU is pulling timing. Nyet or DDillenger might be able to tell you if this timing pull is from torque monitor intervention or just too much timing advance in the map. If you aren't getting intervention, you can pull back 0.75 degrees at a time from KFZW in the areas with corrections until you see it clean up.

Did you mean you copied the KFMIOP map AND the load axis, or just the load axis? You'll need both, but I assume you've got it.

Hope you can get the file sorted to where you are confident in the tune. Unfortunately, I can't be of much help with advanced diagnostic troubleshooting on this system, I still have much to learn. DDillenger? Nyet?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 02, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
On second inspection, timing is all over the place. I can't tell if it is torque intervention or ARMD. Need to log mibas, mrfa, mimax, mizsolv (TorqueForTimingIntervention) to be sure.... or the appropriate ARMD variables - mkar, dmar, B_ar etc... unfortunately, they aren't in the standard ME7L list..

Alternately, you can dork with the ARMD maps as described in the wiki and see if the oscillations go away.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 02, 2014, 10:10:31 PM
I'm gonna try to do a few pulls as is first to get a better baseline, then I guess I'll read up on ARMD and torque intervention. I've jumped into this too quickly so I'm still very clueless in general. Any advice regarding the load variables I mentioned in my last post?

@leroy: Yea I copied KFMIOP and the load axis, same deal with LAMFA but with both axes.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 03, 2014, 12:41:41 AM
I'm gonna try to do a few pulls as is first to get a better baseline, then I guess I'll read up on ARMD and torque intervention. I've jumped into this too quickly so I'm still very clueless in general. Any advice regarding the load variables I mentioned in my last post?

@leroy: Yea I copied KFMIOP and the load axis, same deal with LAMFA but with both axes.
Unfortunately there is no cwarmd variable that i have found so i havent been able to turn it off ditectly. If people dont have the maps for torque monitoring i can post them.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 03, 2014, 03:51:54 AM
Unfortunately there is no cwarmd variable that i have found so i havent been able to turn it off ditectly. If people dont have the maps for torque monitoring i can post them.


The xdf has a few maps that involve torque monitoring. Already have (KFMIZUFIL) and (KFMIZUOF). Which ones are needed?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 03, 2014, 05:20:55 AM
Latest log for the 518AK file. Not sure if my LAMFA 90%modification worked properly based on the log. Any other areas to improve? 


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: em.Euro.R18 on December 03, 2014, 09:08:48 AM
Yeah, this was a bad suggestion on my part.
Hey man no worries there are experienced tuners using the same philosophy. In the real world you will find the benefits are minimal at best. I was under the same impression a while back and I've since proven myself wrong on the dyno.


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4
Post by: SB_GLI on December 03, 2014, 09:57:48 AM
Hey man no worries there are experienced tuners using the same philosophy. In the real world you will find the benefits are minimal at best. I was under the same impression a while back and I've since proven myself wrong on the dyno.

That suggestion was really just so he'd hit his real target lambda because we couldn't figure out the filtering in the beginning.  While it would have probably worked just fine for a 3rd gear WOT pull, it would have over-fueled in a 4 or 5th gear pull where the filter had a longer time to drop the requested lamfa.  With the filter figured out, now all is well.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on December 03, 2014, 10:00:38 AM
Latest log for the 518AK file. Not sure if my LAMFA 90%modification worked properly based on the log. Any other areas to improve? 

you just need to keep an eye on mrfa in different driving conditions.   Understand what mrfa will be when you are part throttle, cruising around town, WOT, going up a hill... all that stuff.  When you understand when you will hit those values, you will know how to modify lamfa accordingly.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 03, 2014, 11:05:35 AM
Latest log for the 518AK file. Not sure if my LAMFA 90%modification worked properly based on the log. Any other areas to improve? 


There is definitely some torque intervention going on in those logs, 6 degree timing swings , if you set the Torque maps to 99 across the maps you'd see them hopefully drop down to 1-2 degrees.

I see no VVT action in those logs though, which maybe why the lower rpm , ie before boost timing values are low.. Have you removed the vvt?


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 03, 2014, 03:38:14 PM

There is definitely some torque intervention going on in those logs, 6 degree timing swings , if you set the Torque maps to 99 across the maps you'd see them hopefully drop down to 1-2 degrees.

I see no VVT action in those logs though, which maybe why the lower rpm , ie before boost timing values are low.. Have you removed the vvt?

Littco, could you be more specific on which maps to set to 99? I'm assuming that this defeats TM entirely?

The VVT on this software isnt used during normal operation. Someting about cold start or emmissions iirc. One of these days we'll get around to using the VVT for performance gains.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 03, 2014, 04:17:47 PM
Your torque limit is maxed, i dont think that is the issue. I feel it is ARMD.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 03, 2014, 05:57:17 PM
Your torque limit is maxed, i dont think that is the issue. I feel it is ARMD.

Yeah after reading about this in the Wiki, it seems ARMD is the culprit. Do you think the engine is throwing the anti-jerk function for a loop because the drivetrain is oscillating outside of its calibration range? This function might serve a noble purpose, but it sounds more likely that it was invented to keep things quiet in the cabin.

From the Wiki:

"The anti-jerk function detects oscillations of the power train and damps them out by applying opposing-phase torque interventions. The torque intervention is converted into an ignition angle offset by the torque interface"

This would explain the up-down-up-down-up-down timing results on the logs. The ARMD must set timing out of phase with the proper timing to cancel out these oscillations. So with this system disabled, and proper timing restored all the way through the pull, we should see some gains.

The real question is: do we simply disable the ARMD system entirely, or tune/recalibrate it to our needs?

Who's up to the task of finding the CWARMD codeword? DD? Nyet? Phila? Call it a race ;)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 03, 2014, 06:27:31 PM
ARMD intervention in a tuned file is usually when the drivetrain is accelerating faster (because of extra boost) than the ECU expects. Not oscillations.

Disabling it is a bad idea, just need to numb it a bit.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Anti_judder


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 03, 2014, 06:53:16 PM
Ok thanks for clearing that up. Looks like we need to find KFDMDARO at least. I'm going to try and locate it, but I will likely need help.

*Edit* yep, can't find it. I tried searching the hex values compared with the defined mbox location, but the values must be different in the 518AK file. The 123456 axis Is easy to find. Anyone want to give it a go?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 04, 2014, 12:12:09 AM
Ok thanks for clearing that up. Looks like we need to find KFDMDARO at least. I'm going to try and locate it, but I will likely need help.

*Edit* yep, can't find it. I tried searching the hex values compared with the defined mbox location, but the values must be different in the 518AK file. The 123456 axis Is easy to find. Anyone want to give it a go?

Itll need to be dissasembled to fund cwarmd. I have searched and its definitely not in the same locations as every other ecu, and its not listed on the ols file i have either..


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 04, 2014, 02:19:24 AM
Littco, could you be more specific on which maps to set to 99? I'm assuming that this defeats TM entirely?

The VVT on this software isnt used during normal operation. Someting about cold start or emmissions iirc. One of these days we'll get around to using the VVT for performance gains.

Not sure I agree with you it's only used for warm up. If you look at kfnwse you'll see it's only used in lower loads and at Wot it's all 18's ie off, where as on a golf say where it is only used for warm up kfnwse is set to 18 across the whole map. I current use the kfnwse similar to the 225bhp and only have it active -4 in what would a wot pull and from say 1500-3000 where peak boost is and then off 18 and get upwards of 25 degrees timing...

How much scope there is in actually making much difference I couldn't comment as it would need back to back testing. What I'll do is stick this map on my a4 and log it then make the changes ie to armd, Tm and kfnwse and see what results it gets..




Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 04, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Not sure I agree with you it's only used for warm up. If you look at kfnwse you'll see it's only used in lower loads and at Wot it's all 18's ie off, where as on a golf say where it is only used for warm up kfnwse is set to 18 across the whole map. I current use the kfnwse similar to the 225bhp and only have it active -4 in what would a wot pull and from say 1500-3000 where peak boost is and then off 18 and get upwards of 25 degrees timing...

How much scope there is in actually making much difference I couldn't comment as it would need back to back testing. What I'll do is stick this map on my a4 and log it then make the changes ie to armd, Tm and kfnwse and see what results it gets..

That's why I'm not seeing any action during my WOT logs  :D. Like I said, one of these days I'll get around to implementing VVT to the appropriate areas for performance reasons, it's just on the back burner right now until I get this ARMD sorted out.

So right now I'm hung up on finding the KFDMDARO map. Nyet does not recommend disabling ARMD entirely via CWARMD, so that mystery can remain unsolved.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on December 04, 2014, 06:48:54 AM
That's why I'm not seeing any action during my WOT logs  :D. Like I said, one of these days I'll get around to implementing VVT to the appropriate areas for performance reasons, it's just on the back burner right now until I get this ARMD sorted out.

So right now I'm hung up on finding the KFDMDARO map. Nyet does not recommend disabling ARMD entirely via CWARMD, so that mystery can remain unsolved.

In the three ols files that I have been using to locate maps for the 518AK, KFMDARO has four maps, *0_A, *1_A, *2_A, *3_A, with two shared axes (See attachment).

In the place that I thought that they should be the maps don't make sense (see attachment).


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 04, 2014, 07:02:36 AM
That's why I'm not seeing any action during my WOT logs  :D. Like I said, one of these days I'll get around to implementing VVT to the appropriate areas for performance reasons, it's just on the back burner right now until I get this ARMD sorted out.

So right now I'm hung up on finding the KFDMDARO map. Nyet does not recommend disabling ARMD entirely via CWARMD, so that mystery can remain unsolved.

You can try but on my stage 1 i have only adjusted the 2 main TM maps, running the 225bhp kfmirl and iop and see 2 degrees timing swing. Thats running 21 degrees top end and about 150grams on the maf at redline..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 04, 2014, 07:23:17 AM
ARMD intervention in a tuned file is usually when the drivetrain is accelerating faster (because of extra boost) than the ECU expects. Not oscillations.

Disabling it is a bad idea, just need to numb it a bit.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Anti_judder

Only issue I have with ARMD being the reason for the timing swings, is it's ( as per s4 wiki ) for fast (which the BFB isn't ) Light weight ( which the BFB certainly isn't and light loads on the DYNO ( which it isn't experiencing ) the cause of the issue, maybe a 3rd gear run which these are being carried out on will contribute to as the load on the engine is less than 4th say... As on my other post, numbing the TM maps will stop these timing swings and whilst its not ideal,

Personally I cant see on such a small framed turbo making 180-190Bhp max that exceeding the torque monitoring limits even with them disabled is really a bad thing?! it's not like we're putting huge stress on the engine, which in a 225bhp S3/tt experiences far more "work" in stock form than these do in a stage 1... Its like catching you sack in your zipper,it  just becomes a ball ache...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 04, 2014, 11:04:01 AM
Yes, and after reviewing the logs and other logs with known ARMD intervention, the pattern doesn't match. ARMD is typically much slower oscillations.

Need to log the various torque variables... which means we need somebody to disassemble the AK file and find the RAM locations..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on December 04, 2014, 11:45:17 AM
Need to log the various torque variables... which means we need somebody to disassemble the AK file and find the RAM locations..
I am working on disassembling the 518AK 003 file again, I had previously tried and didn't really understand the output (used this thread (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2431.0) for help).  Any clues as to what I am looking for? lol


Title: Re:
Post by: em.Euro.R18 on December 04, 2014, 01:48:40 PM
I've found in most cases with timing oscillations adjustments in KFZWOP/op2 fix the issue. I believe it has a lot to do with the torque model calculation.


Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on December 04, 2014, 03:08:22 PM
I've found in most cases with timing oscillations adjustments in KFZWOP/op2 fix the issue. I believe it has a lot to do with the torque model calculation.
What adjustments do you recommend?


Title: Re:
Post by: littco on December 04, 2014, 03:26:08 PM
I've found in most cases with timing oscillations adjustments in KFZWOP/op2 fix the issue. I believe it has a lot to do with the torque model calculation.
I'd suggest u set uof and ufil to 99% if only temporary to see if the swing goes, if it does them to is active.. Again imo I can't see any reason why setting both to 99 would cause any issues long term , other than its not how bosch would like it...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 04, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
You'll just get level 2 intervention, which you really don't want.

No, i'd rather figure out the real source than italian tuning it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 06, 2014, 05:13:56 AM
Yes, and after reviewing the logs and other logs with known ARMD intervention, the pattern doesn't match. ARMD is typically much slower oscillations.

Need to log the various torque variables... which means we need somebody to disassemble the AK file and find the RAM locations..

So we need a disassembler. Who is up to the task? Rich says he's working on it with mixed success, is anyone willing to take this on or give Rich a bit of guidance? I know it's a "beginner" thread, but the current timing swings are not satisfactory to call this "good enough". This is me reaching out to the advanced guys on here to help keep this thread moving, so we can get it right and put it to bed.

 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: giles92 on December 06, 2014, 07:18:12 AM
In your xdf, certain maps have their axis as an individual map, for example Lamfa COL axis Lamfa Row axis and Lamfa map. Why is it labeled this way? Is it to make it easier to adjust the axis? Winols lets me put a different multiplier on each axis and output so i dont think its neccessary to layout that way unless using tunerpro. I have been transferring this xdf to winols to help me define my 018DQ ecu and i want my stuff laid out in a way that matches what everyone else is doing. Thanks


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 06, 2014, 08:18:26 AM
In your xdf, certain maps have their axis as an individual map, for example Lamfa COL axis Lamfa Row axis and Lamfa map. Why is it labeled this way? Is it to make it easier to adjust the axis? Winols lets me put a different multiplier on each axis and output so i dont think its neccessary to layout that way unless using tunerpro. I have been transferring this xdf to winols to help me define my 018DQ ecu and i want my stuff laid out in a way that matches what everyone else is doing. Thanks


I assumed that was the case too since the only axes labelled separately are the ones that were modified. Just do it the proper winols way and you'll be fine.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mitkoenchev on December 06, 2014, 08:43:34 AM
In the three ols files that I have been using to locate maps for the 518AK, KFMDARO has four maps, *0_A, *1_A, *2_A, *3_A, with two shared axes (See attachment).

In the place that I thought that they should be the maps don't make sense (see attachment).

I have the same issue and I tried to search for these maps. I guessed the same locations as you showed, but maybe there is only one KFDMDARO map in this case (as in mine - ECU is 906018B). So maybe KFDMDARO_1_A that you show should be KFDMDAROS and KFDMDARO_0_A is just KFDMDARO.
Maps appear to be in the following order KFDMDADP, KFDMDARO, KFDMDAROS and KFDMDPO is a bit further. These are the only locations I found for KFDMDx maps that look similar to what I saw in fully defined ME7/7.5 files.

I didn't test these, so I'm not 100% sure. I could have missed something.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on December 06, 2014, 09:29:54 AM
Ok so I think I have a disassemble code to work with... but I need to play around a bit to understand.  Any good tutorials to follow?


Title: Re: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 06, 2014, 10:11:47 AM
In your xdf, certain maps have their axis as an individual map, for example Lamfa COL axis Lamfa Row axis and Lamfa map. Why is it labeled this way? Is it to make it easier to adjust the axis? Winols lets me put a different multiplier on each axis and output so i dont think its neccessary to layout that way unless using tunerpro. I have been transferring this xdf to winols to help me define my 018DQ ecu and i want my stuff laid out in a way that matches what everyone else is doing. Thanks
The tunerpro xdf was set up this way because it is easy to link axis data to the maps in tunerpro.  Feel free to set it up however you like for your own use.

If you want it to be EXACTLY like in this thread, use tunerpro!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 06, 2014, 11:47:44 AM
So we need a disassembler. Who is up to the task? Rich says he's working on it with mixed success, is anyone willing to take this on or give Rich a bit of guidance? I know it's a "beginner" thread, but the current timing swings are not satisfactory to call this "good enough". This is me reaching out to the advanced guys on here to help keep this thread moving, so we can get it right and put it to bed.

 
I know I'm going to get shot, but please set the 2 main tm maps to 99 across the map to see if this sorts the timing swings, if it does then you know the answer is relate to the torque monitoring, then your choice is to either go the "right" route and fix the maps or live the fact that you might never get level 2 tm kicking in...



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 06, 2014, 03:21:18 PM
I know I'm going to get shot, but please set the 2 main tm maps to 99 across the map to see if this sorts the timing swings, if it does then you know the answer is relate to the torque monitoring, then your choice is to either go the "right" route and fix the maps or live the fact that you might never get level 2 tm kicking in...



Given the fact that we don't have the appropriate RAM locations to log, I think this is a fine idea to help narrow things down.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 07, 2014, 09:18:03 AM
Given the fact that we don't have the appropriate RAM locations to log, I think this is a fine idea to help narrow things down.

So to try this out I'm to set ALL map values to 99, or just certain rows? here's a shot of the stock values:

What are the X axes of these tables? Y is obviously RPM....


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on December 08, 2014, 03:07:25 AM
Hi all,
tested this file on my A4 B6 with BFB (163hp) Engine. Runs well, but the car won't run faster than 220km/h (137mph) / 5th gear and i had some way left on my pedal and did not hit maxrpm...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on December 08, 2014, 03:36:58 AM
Hi all,
tested this file on my A4 B6 with BFB (163hp) Engine. Runs well, but the car won't run faster than 220km/h (137mph) / 5th gear and i had some way left on my pedal and did not hit maxrpm...

Considering VMAXNB is 205kmh, that makes sense.........

VMAXNB: 0x29F8C


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 03:59:51 AM
Hi all,
tested this file on my A4 B6 with BFB (163hp) Engine. Runs well, but the car won't run faster than 220km/h (137mph) / 5th gear and i had some way left on my pedal and did not hit maxrpm...

I should hope you have a good road to drive on at that speed. Looking for more than 220km/hour on a public highway around here is a fast way to get yourself killed. Tire rating also becomes a factor. Please be careful.

Please check the XDF, VMAXNB has been there for a while.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on December 08, 2014, 04:01:39 AM
German Autobahn ;) allowed to drive as fast you can

Tireindex W up to 270.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 04:12:26 AM
German Autobahn ;) allowed to drive as fast you can

Sounds fun. If you get the chance, please do some logs of the file (3rd gear pulls from 2500-6250rpm). We need some more data to work out the bugs on this tune. Some high speed cruise logs would be interesting too.....simply can't do them where I live.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on December 08, 2014, 04:20:17 AM
Ok, i just set VMAXNB to..149.12 to reach (maybe) 240KM/h? Thats all?

What about NMAX? Should is set this higher too or will this affect other maps?

I'm try to make you some logs next weekend but only if we have still no snow here...



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 04:22:28 AM
NMAX is engine speed limit (in rpm). This is stock on the community file at 6800rpm.


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 03:42:52 PM
Can anyone confirm that I should set ALL KFMIZUOF  and KFMIZUFIL table values to 99 in order to test if TM is causing the timing swings? Going to log this tonight if I can get a "hell yeah"


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 08, 2014, 05:30:33 PM
What's the best course of action re: discussion of my port to the CH box? I don't think it deserves it's own sticky, but at the same time it'll be confusing to have people talking about 2 different bins in this thread. Should I just continue in the "Converting: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003) over to 4B0906018CM" thread?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 05:54:23 PM
What's the best course of action re: discussion of my port to the CH box? I don't think it deserves it's own sticky, but at the same time it'll be confusing to have people talking about 2 different bins in this thread. Should I just continue in the "Converting: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003) over to 4B0906018CM" thread?

I think porting to other ECUs will require separate threads, like the one you're helping along for the CH box. The small variations between software (eg. zk being a table vs. a single variable) will be confusing. It will also bloat this already MEGA thread.

Once we get the fine details dialed on this tune, I'm hoping to get this thread cleaned up to just the basics of what changes were made and why. If it's clear enough, there won't really even be need for "tuned" files here. The thread will guide the reader through the process.

Not trying to be exclusive, at all. Just want to keep this thread about tuning a file, and not about converting a tune to another format.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 07:35:09 PM
I went ahead and did a little experiment and it looks like disabling the TM via KFMIZUOF and KFMIZUFIL did nothing to help the timing swings. Or perhaps the maps aren't defined right in the XDF?

I've attached a shot of the maps (99 ended up rounding to 98.8 or something) and a log from this modification. 6* timing swings still happening. What the problem is?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on December 08, 2014, 08:49:57 PM
I went ahead and did a little experiment and it looks like disabling the TM via KFMIZUOF and KFMIZUFIL did nothing to help the timing swings. Or perhaps the maps aren't defined right in the XDF?

I've attached a shot of the maps (99 ended up rounding to 98.8 or something) and a log from this modification. 6* timing swings still happening. What the problem is?

It's not intervention. The sample rate is high, and the scale is small. 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 09:00:18 PM
It's not intervention. The sample rate is high, and the scale is small. 

Derp. So basically I've been chasing my tail? Are you saying that the sample rate on me7logger is so fast that the resulting data is "between" the actual, important values? What do you mean that the scale is small? Not worth worrying about?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on December 08, 2014, 09:05:23 PM
Derp. So basically I've been chasing my tail? Are you saying that the sample rate on me7logger is so fast that the resulting data is "between" the actual, important values? What do you mean that the scale is small? Not worth worrying about?

That's sorta what I'm saying. That, mixed with I'm not sure-lol.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 08, 2014, 09:12:26 PM
That's sorta what I'm saying. That, mixed with I'm not sure-lol.

Well I'm stumped. The car runs well, so that's good. I'm just getting fussy with the details. If the timing on the last log looks reasonable, I'll call it good enough until we see some other logs/bugs to work out.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 09, 2014, 01:02:49 AM
Well I'm stumped. The car runs well, so that's good. I'm just getting fussy with the details. If the timing on the last log looks reasonable, I'll call it good enough until we see some other logs/bugs to work out.



http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7361.0title=

this topic was along the same lines, the axis made the swings far more worse than they actually where. Guess you have the same ,


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 09, 2014, 07:27:23 PM
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7361.0title=

this topic was along the same lines, the axis made the swings far more worse than they actually where. Guess you have the same ,

I read this topic, but it looks like the timing swings are a bit more severe on this file (6* vs 4*).

Another thought I had today: I haven't been turning off the traction control when logging. Is this problematic?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 09, 2014, 08:47:19 PM
I read this topic, but it looks like the timing swings are a bit more severe on this file (6* vs 4*).

Another thought I had today: I haven't been turning off the traction control when logging. Is this problematic?

YES. Big time.

B_asr


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 10, 2014, 05:44:26 PM
YES. Big time.

B_asr


I did another log with the traction control off. What specifically does the TC affect negatively for our purposes?

I'm not sure what B_asr means. I searched for it, googled, and even checked my logger config file to see if I could log it. It's not in there, and when I put it there, me7logger didn't like it and wouldn't launch.

The main thing is, traction control off did not change the timing swings.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 10, 2014, 05:47:43 PM
Not ASR then. Something else :(


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on December 10, 2014, 07:07:00 PM
I'm going to need to compare with a log from another car to eliminate the possibility of a sensor or other flaw on my hardware. Until then I'm just gonna drive it.


Title: Re:
Post by: littco on December 11, 2014, 08:43:03 AM
I'm going to need to compare with a log from another car to eliminate the possibility of a sensor or other flaw on my hardware. Until then I'm just gonna drive it.

heres some over lays on your logs on the one I currently have. My boost profile different as I'm throwing in more boost early but even so you can see the difference in timing, whilst it looks similar later on the rpm range there is a section 5000-6000 where your swings are far more...


Title: Re:
Post by: littco on December 11, 2014, 09:03:58 AM
I'm going to need to compare with a log from another car to eliminate the possibility of a sensor or other flaw on my hardware. Until then I'm just gonna drive it.

how did you work put your KFMIRL? theres a whole chunk in the 3000-5000 rpm range 70-85 % that is 160, I don't belive this will help you... Have you tried the 225bhp KFMIRL/IOP..?


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on December 11, 2014, 05:45:52 PM
how did you work put your KFMIRL? theres a whole chunk in the 3000-5000 rpm range 70-85 % that is 160, I don't belive this will help you... Have you tried the 225bhp KFMIRL/IOP..?

I put those 160's in the KFMIRL in areas where I wanted more load than the stock map requested. These were the areas (at the time) that had less requested load than the maximum allowed by LDRXN.

I haven't tried the TT 225bhp KFMIRL/IOP yet, but I might as well to see if it's better/worse than what I have. Once the snow is cleared (maybe on the weekend) I'll try this out. Could you send me the TT file/xdf you use for comparison?


Title: Re:
Post by: A4Rich on December 13, 2014, 09:43:54 PM
Could you send me the TT file/xdf you use for comparison?
I have used this TT 225bhp BAM ols posted here before  click (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=467.0)


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on December 13, 2014, 10:07:47 PM
I have used this TT 225bhp BAM ols posted here before  click (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=467.0)


Thanks Rich 8). Unfortunately I got a message from SB_GLI saying he tried the 225 IRL/IOP on his jetta and it wasn't very good, part-throttle issues and such.

I went back to the IRL and IOP tables and re-did the previous modifications with a bit more patience and smoother transitions etc. I also re-did the KFZWIOP1/2 tables as well. I'll log tomorrow hopefully, and if it's any better than before I'll put the log up for further evaluation.


Title: Re:
Post by: littco on December 14, 2014, 03:23:10 AM
Thanks Rich 8). Unfortunately I got a message from SB_GLI saying he tried the 225 IRL/IOP on his jetta and it wasn't very good, part-throttle issues and such.

I went back to the IRL and IOP tables and re-did the previous modifications with a bit more patience and smoother transitions etc. I also re-did the KFZWIOP1/2 tables as well. I'll log tomorrow hopefully, and if it's any better than before I'll put the log up for further evaluation.

Had sb-gli set the axis properly?


Title: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on December 14, 2014, 03:45:48 PM
Had sb-gli set the axis properly?

yes. :)  Had a lot of part throttle issues with it.  Axis were set correctly.


Title: Re:
Post by: littco on December 15, 2014, 04:46:16 AM
yes. :)  Had a lot of part throttle issues with it.  Axis were set correctly.

In what respect?  As im running the 225bhp maps with no issues. If its jerky then id suggest its pid related


Title: Re:
Post by: SB_GLI on December 15, 2014, 07:03:13 PM
In what respect?  As im running the 225bhp maps with no issues. If its jerky then id suggest its pid related

It was probably more due to the 8psi cracking pressure of my frankenturbo wastegate.  too much boost @ part throttle, too much load, bottom dropped out on the ignition advance.  I've had better luck with maps I made myself than the tt maps.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 16, 2014, 05:24:16 PM
I flashed the changes I made to IRL/IOP/KFZWIOP(1&2) and logged the file. A bit smoother through the pull maybe? The log looks ok, except.....

The big timing swings are still showing up. I can't say that the engine isn't performing, but these timing swings are getting annoying. I expect to see 2-4*, but 6*+ in some areas is driving me nuts when I review the logs.

any ideas?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on December 16, 2014, 05:52:33 PM
If you look at my logs from a few pages back I'm getting even worse timing swings, so I doubt it's a hardware issue with your setup. That being said, could you post the changes you've made recently?

Also, just tried TT225 KFMIRL/IOP and it's perfectly fine, no part throttle issues. Maybe a bit of bucking at low very RPM/low throttle, but that could be because I have a ton of drivetrain slop. I'll try to get some logs soon, I'll post them in the other thread when I do.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 16, 2014, 06:38:37 PM
If you look at my logs from a few pages back I'm getting even worse timing swings, so I doubt it's a hardware issue with your setup. That being said, could you post the changes you've made recently?

Also, just tried TT225 KFMIRL/IOP and it's perfectly fine, no part throttle issues. Maybe a bit of bucking at low very RPM/low throttle, but that could be because I have a ton of drivetrain slop. I'll try to get some logs soon, I'll post them in the other thread when I do.

Here's a few pictures of the tables I modified for the last log. I smoothed out the KFMIRL values in the 75, 80 and 85 columns, with the 75 column closer to stock. On a second look, I didn't do anything to KFMIOP compared with the Tuned_v3 file. The KFZWOP1/2 tables were modified to reflect the new 160 load row: I followed the curve in graph view and ended up lowering the values by 2.25* for KFZWOP1 and 1.5* for KFZWOP2 in the 160-load row.

I think I'll just try the 225 values. Might as well.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: littco on December 17, 2014, 01:49:03 AM
Here's a few pictures of the tables I modified for the last log. I smoothed out the KFMIRL values in the 75, 80 and 85 columns, with the 75 column closer to stock. On a second look, I didn't do anything to KFMIOP compared with the Tuned_v3 file. The KFZWOP1/2 tables were modified to reflect the new 160 load row: I followed the curve in graph view and ended up lowering the values by 2.25* for KFZWOP1 and 1.5* for KFZWOP2 in the 160-load row.

I think I'll just try the 225 values. Might as well.

Just a suggestion but have you tried increasing the timing values slightly, as the only thing I can think off is that I run 1-3cf where as you have 0


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 17, 2014, 04:07:20 AM
Yeah, the timing is increased vs stock. I had a bit more timing in it before I modified IOP/IRL to allow more requested load, and when I got a few more PSI boost out of it the timing corrections started. I pulled timing back in those areas a bit to clean it up. I'm also running 94 octane, so I didn't want to push too far if someone running this can only get 91.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 17, 2014, 07:27:06 PM
Ok, I tried the 225 KMFIRL/KMFIOP values and the results so far are good.

The timing swings are much less, average about 4* through the area that used to get 6* (4000rpm up). Drivablility (so far) is fine. I'm going to run this file a bit more and do some more logs. Not sure why the timing swings are better, but they're better and that's good enough for me.

Here's the log from this morning, I'll post the file soon if it works out. Might put a bit more timing up top and see what comes back.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 17, 2014, 07:40:33 PM
mifa is still awful close to miist.... if you can get mifa up a bunch more relative to miist, you might see this clear up.

I'd underscale the MAF a touch maybe? Just to experiment? Your actual load is consistently over requested load.

THIS IS JUST A GUESS! Don't read anything into it heh. Trying to figure out the source of your torque intervention...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on December 17, 2014, 07:44:36 PM
Oh, another thought: if you can bring up load requested w/o affecting requested boost (i.e. increase requested load, but compensate the req load->boost calculation (via FWFTBRTA/KFPBRK/KFPBRKNW) or any of the other tables in the path) so you get less boost for a given requested load, it will always bring req load up but actual load down.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: S4addict on December 23, 2014, 01:10:19 PM
were you guys having any immobilizer issues with flashing these? im trying to get my buddy on here to learn how to flash his but i wana make sure he dosent kill his ecu haha.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 23, 2014, 05:51:29 PM
were you guys having any immobilizer issues with flashing these? im trying to get my buddy on here to learn how to flash his but i wana make sure he dosent kill his ecu haha.

I didn't have this problem. Not sure which generations (if any) 1.8t has IMMO. Post original ECU/Software # or .bin file and someone should be able to tell you.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on December 23, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
I didn't have this problem. Not sure which generations (if any) 1.8t has IMMO. Post original ECU/Software # or .bin file and someone should be able to tell you.

All B6 (and newer) has immobilizer. Flashing it won't affect it however.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: S4addict on December 23, 2014, 06:30:04 PM
Ok thank you guys if i can get him to log it ill sharee the data


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: S4addict on December 24, 2014, 08:46:31 AM
i couldnt find anything anywere else the memory layout is 800bb no?
when i try and read his ecu to save the oem file it says memory layout is invalid
any suggestions?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: S4addict on December 24, 2014, 09:17:29 AM
**edit changed baud rate down to 9600 and the error went away these cars are strange...
so for future refrence 10400 will cause a invaild memory and 9600 wont as far as ive seen
hope that helps someone!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 27, 2014, 02:02:29 PM
i couldnt find anything anywere else the memory layout is 800bb no?
when i try and read his ecu to save the oem file it says memory layout is invalid
any suggestions?

Yes, the files discussed in this thread are for 800bb. I have also had this "unable to validate memory layout" message when flashing. As long as it's set for 800bb and the file is checksummed, I have had no issues flashing it even with this message.

Can't wait to see some logs!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Steve Bassen on December 30, 2014, 06:59:25 PM
Hey all, I used the v6 xdf as a starting point for the XDF I'm building for some hot tooning action on my car (Comp 5858 build), in a month or two.  I've filled out a bunch of other common variables using various other XDF's as a base (the community M-box xdf, Yanku Marrah's very complete 518AK 0004 xdf, etc), corrected the offset for a couple parameters, and added the map based thermostat parameters.  I still need to fill in a few more (coil dwell, knock sensors, etc), but figured I'd post up what I've got so far, in case anyone wanted to incorporate it into the community stage1 xdf.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on December 30, 2014, 07:36:18 PM
You're a prince!

Thanks for adding this.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on December 30, 2014, 10:15:44 PM
Quick clarification regarding the use of the TT 225 maps, in addition to the using KMFIRL/KMFIOP, were KFZWOP/KFZWOP2 changed as well?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on December 31, 2014, 04:11:49 PM
Steve thanks for posting your XDF!  8)

Attached are ignition coil maps I located based on this thread (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4117.0).


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Steve Bassen on January 01, 2015, 02:26:23 PM
Awesome, thanks, Rich!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on January 02, 2015, 08:06:05 AM
Quick clarification regarding the use of the TT 225 maps, in addition to the using KMFIRL/KMFIOP, were KFZWOP/KFZWOP2 changed as well?

Located some helpful information about KFZWOP/KFZWOP2 from another thread (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2801.0), see below.

I always rescale KFZWOP when changing KFMIOP axis (shares same axis). Other than that only thing I can think of is when going to better fuel and seeing no knock while maximizing KFZW > KFZWOP

There is nothing to gain from this table. It is strictly used for interventions.

It is solely used to calculate ignition angle efficiency for a few different interventions. Ignition angles exceeding KFZWOP is fine. This will numb some interventions, but that's it.

Where it can really hurt you is in the torque model. It has a significant affect on torque intervention.

If you are greatly exceeding KFZWOP with zwbas and would like to preserve all of these wonderful interventions, then you can raise it's values. If you would like to numb these interventions further then you can lower it's values. I prefer to just leave it alone.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 06, 2015, 05:35:41 PM
Thanks for posting that Rich, I read it over and over again and then I remembered changing the KFZWOP/KFZWOP2 tables previously when I was tuning IOP/IRL. This as we know now, affects torque intervention behaviour (thank you again for finding this info, and to phila for sharing it!)

I went back  to the file today and switched the KFZWOP/KFZWOP2 tables back to stock values and did a log. Looks like the timing swing situation is resolved. I'm happy with the way the 225 IOP/IRL file drives so if anyone wants to check it out, here's the latest revision of the tune with a log.

I really want to see some logs from other cars running this file, or any version of it, to compare notes and fine tune the thing.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on January 06, 2015, 06:12:17 PM
Why not use the TT225 KFZWOP maps? The load axis is changed in the TT225 KFMIOP so my assumption is you need the KFZWOP maps to match too, right? That's what I'm running at the moment, no logs yet though.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 06, 2015, 06:30:23 PM
Why not use the TT225 KFZWOP maps? The load axis is changed in the TT225 KFMIOP so my assumption is you need the KFZWOP maps to match too, right? That's what I'm running at the moment, no logs yet though.

Not sure they need to match. Like phila said, "There is nothing to gain from this table. It is strictly used for interventions". I guess if I'm using the stock TT225 IOP/IRL there is no reason the stock TT225 KFZWOP values wouldn't work. I'm just thinking there wouldn't be any appreciable difference. Might just try it anyways, for curiosity's sake.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: BlkSerialKilla on January 11, 2015, 04:18:57 PM
In regards to KFDMDARO,KFDMDADP, & KFDMDAROS I took a stab at locating it in SW 0003. I believe these maps although weird appearing are them in actuality. I had just recently 0xFF'ed all bins in those areas for the tables I defined and car is now jerky upon rapid acceleration +/-. If anyone that can put the correct names to each table variant that would be neat.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 12, 2015, 05:51:16 PM
Got this file working successfully! I did try to implement the antilag/nls features on this file but I ended up with a no start.... Is it possible we can figure out how to add this on?

Thanks Jon


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on January 12, 2015, 06:16:57 PM
No-op out the RSA checking as described here

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6308.msg69224#msg69224


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 12, 2015, 06:18:31 PM
Got this file working successfully! I did try to implement the antilag/nls features on this file but I ended up with a no start.... Is it possible we can figure out how to add this on?

Thanks Jon

Glad to see you got the file up and running. I wish you luck with the NLS and antilag, but I believe in the interest of keeping this thread about tuning, we will not be adding custom code to the community file.

Second on the agenda; double post. You already have a thread started with exactly what you ard trying to achieve describe in great detail. You have two experts posting In that thread today to help you within a few hours of asking for help. I understand your excitement, doing this for the first time is like magic. Powerful feeling. Just slow down a bit and try some things out. Come back and check your thread. If nobody answers in a few days, THEN politely bump your thread. Double posting is basically spamming the boards.

Other than that, welcome to.the community file team! How 'bout some logs fella?







Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 12, 2015, 06:23:03 PM
 :P sorry just anxious don't mean to be such a bother.

I will get some logs going  as soon as I refill with 94

Thanks


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 12, 2015, 06:27:52 PM
:P sorry just anxious don't mean to be such a bother.

I will get some logs going  as soon as I refill with 94

Thanks

Its no bother. Just having another internet rant on a monday. Have you driven the car much yet?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 12, 2015, 07:37:32 PM
Its no bother. Just having another internet rant on a monday. Have you driven the car much yet?


I drove home from work. Im going easy for now until the remaining 87 Oct is gone and I can refill with 94. I did give it a go, it is smooth, but did you notice a feelable power increase.. im not sure what to expect, im wondering if the previous owner already had it tuned and never told me


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 12, 2015, 08:20:15 PM
I drove home from work. Im going easy for now until the remaining 87 Oct is gone and I can refill with 94. I did give it a go, it is smooth, but did you notice a feelable power increase.. im not sure what to expect, im wondering if the previous owner already had it tuned and never told me

If you've got 87 in there now, your ECU is likely pulling timing to stop the knock. The file doesn't have tons of advance compared to stock, but enough to make a difference. There is more boost, and it's all right away because k03 turbo. I think you'll like it when you have the 94 in there. Might want to clear the engine codes (even if you don't have any) when you fill up to zero the fuel adaptations.

If your previous file was tuned, you should be able to tell by comparing to the "stock" file on page 1. What software version is your original file?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 12, 2015, 08:24:16 PM
If you've got 87 in there now, your ECU is likely pulling timing to stop the knock. The file doesn't have tons of advance compared to stock, but enough to make a difference. There is more boost, and it's all right away because k03 turbo. I think you'll like it when you have the 94 in there. Might want to clear the engine codes (even if you don't have any) when you fill up to zero the fuel adaptations.

If your previous file was tuned, you should be able to tell by comparing to the "stock" file on page 1. What software version is your original file?

I did notice it seems to pull a little better on the hwy in the mid range
0003


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 12, 2015, 08:26:30 PM
0003

Standard transmission?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 12, 2015, 08:28:11 PM
Standard transmission?


yes


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 12, 2015, 08:31:15 PM
Perfect. This is the comparison I've been waiting for!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 12, 2015, 08:35:26 PM
Perfect. This is the comparison I've been waiting for!

lol Im also constantly in oakville

My buddy just bought a 05 wagon 6spd 1.8t. Going to dig into that very soon also


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 14, 2015, 12:02:40 PM
Ill be getting some logs done tomorrow. Anything you'd like to see specifically?


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on January 14, 2015, 02:25:25 PM
I'd like to see everything.  Boost, requested load, load specified, load.....timing, afr.....nyet has a good list for standard logging on his site....it might even be linked a few pages back. *edit: check pg 4 sb_gli has a config file attached*

I dont have my logging laptop with me today, else I would send you the config file that I use.  Just post the csv file on here when you do one.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 15, 2015, 12:30:10 PM
ok sounds good


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 16, 2015, 04:52:17 AM
Here's the config file I've been using for logging with me7logger:


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on January 16, 2015, 05:13:32 AM
Hi,
where can i find

-CLASLVE - Plug
-CLASLPE - Pump plug

in this file?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jerry Tunin on January 17, 2015, 10:34:42 PM
Is there a WinOLS map pack for this?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 19, 2015, 07:51:11 PM
Got some logs today.

Im getting quite a bit of timing pull, running 91. Im currently reading into this, will try 94 at next fill.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on January 19, 2015, 10:12:13 PM
Got some logs today.

Im getting quite a bit of timing pull, running 91. Im currently reading into this, will try 94 at next fill.

need a lot richer for 91oct.

11.5-11.8


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: erack on January 23, 2015, 06:59:21 AM
hey all i just flashed this on my 05 wagon 6 spd
what a difference will try to get some logs shortly with ross tech
quite busy with a baby lol
thanks for all the work this far
i plan on looking into some emission deletes so can remove the cheapo cat the previous owner installed to try to fix a p0420 that has come back
any info would be great
cheers


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: BlkSerialKilla on January 23, 2015, 09:05:47 AM
get your hands on me7logger from the forum it will log several times quicker and you can follow the variables provided in earlier posts of course  :)


Title: Re: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 24, 2015, 05:30:59 PM
hey all i just flashed this on my 05 wagon 6 spd
what a difference will try to get some logs shortly with ross tech
quite busy with a baby lol
thanks for all the work this far
i plan on looking into some emission deletes so can remove the cheapo cat the previous owner installed to try to fix a p0420 that has come back
any info would be great
cheers

Looking forward to seeing those logs! Glad the file is working for you, feel free to tinker with it to suit your needs. Post up any questions or revisions you make. Like blk said, use me7logger. It's pretty much the only thing anyone on here uses, or wants to review.

As an aside, I also have a 2005 wagon and a new baby. Cool.

 The cat delete thing is well documented on here. Find a thread called emissions deletes and setting actual readiness. I think it must be in there. Or check nyet's s4wiki

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=615.msg5049#msg5049

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Three77 on January 24, 2015, 05:55:34 PM
I jut wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, it has been most beneficial for my beginning progress on my CH box 01 passat wagon project.
So far I've got bigger injectors in (genesis 380's @ 4 bar ~ 440), and have been working on getting lamfa straightened out, but I couldn't resist raising ldxrn a little while I was at it.  ;) So far things are going well, I'm now working on getting my afr's brought up a little after ~4500 rpm as they're going from 12 to 10 by redline taking my idc to 90%.

Anyhow, thanks again, every little bit helps someone whether you know it or not.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 24, 2015, 06:10:34 PM
hey all i just flashed this on my 05 wagon 6 spd
what a difference will try to get some logs shortly with ross tech
quite busy with a baby lol
thanks for all the work this far
i plan on looking into some emission deletes so can remove the cheapo cat the previous owner installed to try to fix a p0420 that has come back
any info would be great
cheers


Erack's original file was a 518BC. Are there any significant differences between the 518BC vs the 518AK? It does work flawlessly so far.
We also had some trouble with the nefmoto software, it would connect, start to flash but then fail. After trying over and over again it finally took. Working fine now, weird.

On another note, does anybody know how commercial tunes compare to this one? Do they tend to be more aggressive on the stock hardware?

Thanks guys   


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 24, 2015, 07:02:07 PM
I jut wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, it has been most beneficial for my beginning progress on my CH box 01 passat wagon project.
So far I've got bigger injectors in (genesis 380's @ 4 bar ~ 440), and have been working on getting lamfa straightened out, but I couldn't resist raising ldxrn a little while I was at it.  ;) So far things are going well, I'm now working on getting my afr's brought up a little after ~4500 rpm as they're going from 12 to 10 by redline taking my idc to 90%.

Anyhow, thanks again, every little bit helps someone whether you know it or not.

Do you have logs with the new injectors? I'd like to see them  8). Have you dialed in the injectors properly for fuel trims etc? You should start working things out publicly on the "Stage 2" thread, it has stalled again. Once I'm able I'll get some new nozzles too. The Great minds of this forum have been very kind to us new guys. Glad things are working out.
Erack's original file was a 518BC. Are there any significant differences between the 518BC vs the 518AK? It does work flawlessly so far.
We also had some trouble with the nefmoto software, it would connect, start to flash but then fail. After trying over and over again it finally took. Working fine now, weird.

On another note, does anybody know how commercial tunes compare to this one? Do they tend to be more aggressive on the stock hardware?

Thanks guys    

I actually had 518BC on my car to start off as well. I cross-flashed to the 518AK file after a tip from a prince..... ;D

As far as commercial tunes go, IDK. This project started in October, and so far I only have a handful of confirmed drivers. This file is also a work in progress (still some lumpy torque curves to work out, probably timing related) and isn't really meant to compete or compare to commercial tunes. This is about learning to do it, and understanding the why's and hows. Feel free to help out!

If anyone has access to a dyno however........I would certainly be embarrassed at how much work it took to gain so little lol  :-[


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on January 24, 2015, 07:14:05 PM
Only reason I ask is to see how much more room we have to work with, while still staying safe and reliable. I am very eager to start makings some changes and seeing the reaction.

Ill be taking a go at it as soon as things calm down a little bit, we're expecting a baby girl any day now!

As for a Dyno. There is a place in concord (Magnus Motorsports) and Four star Motorsports in georgetown both with awd dynos. I believe they both charge 150/3 Pulls.
Wont be able to run it anytime soon though unfortunately


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Three77 on January 24, 2015, 07:39:32 PM
Do you have logs with the new injectors? I'd like to see them  8). Have you dialed in the injectors properly for fuel trims etc? You should start working things out publicly on the "Stage 2" thread, it has stalled again. Once I'm able I'll get some new nozzles too. The Great minds of this forum have been very kind to us new guys. Glad things are working out.

I do! I'll post today's log up once I get back from a party I'm obligated to attend. My trims are pretty good without any tweaking, idle being +3, and partial 1<. I am still having a problem with my SAI delete not working, a P0411 code is being thrown, even though I followed the process in the tuning wiki to a T. I posed a question regarding this about a week ago but never received a response, I'll eventually work it out.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: erack on January 28, 2015, 05:22:22 PM
awesome thanks guys i will check out me7logger and see if it will work with my eBay cables
will report back when i can very hectic around here lately
cheers


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on January 29, 2015, 02:04:28 AM
Hi,
if i compare 8E0909518AK_368072_NEF_STG_1_Stock.bin and 8E0909518AK_368072_NEF_STG_1_Tunedv7.bin
there are differences at the addresses
0x16906 - 0x16985
0x9FE66 - 0x9FEEB
and i could not find any .xdf with declaration of these.

Can someone tell me the name of these 2 maps?


Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on January 29, 2015, 04:19:02 AM
If it's not in the xdf, I didn't change it. The only thing that was modified outside of tunerpro is the "programming not complete" fix.

Not sure, maybe it's checksum correction-related?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on January 29, 2015, 05:20:28 AM
"programming not complete" fix is @ 0x6B3AE

Why i'm asking for this? Because i'm still not able to delete EVAP...
The stock file i set CDLDP to 0 and everything is fine, but not with this Stage1 file  ???




Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on January 29, 2015, 07:33:50 AM
there are differences at the addresses
0x16906 - 0x16985
0x9FE66 - 0x9FEEB

These addresses are apart of the RSA signatures, see below me7sum output from my stock (+ programming not complete) 518AK 003 bin.
Code:
Step #3: Reading RSA signatures ..
 Searching for RSA offset #0...OK
 Searching for RSA offset #1...OK
         Signature: @9fe66-9fee6
           Modulus: @16906-16986
          Exponent: @16986 = 3
 Searching for MD5 ranges...OK
 MD5 Block Offset Table @168e2 [32 bytes]:
 1) 0x00010002-0x00013FFE
 2) 0x00014252-0x00017F4E
 3) 0x00018192-0x0001FBDC
 4) 0x00026A00-0x0002FFFC
 EncrMD5: 17 f8 f0 43 02 cc 96 d1 f1 a4 05 65 ab c3 f3 78
 CalcMD5: 17 f8 f0 43 02 cc 96 d1 f1 a4 05 65 ab c3 f3 78
  OK


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: BlkSerialKilla on January 29, 2015, 01:03:21 PM
figured this was worth mentioning but the main xdf posted may have an incorrect factor calculation for TABGBTS also FBSTABGM is defined as pictured for those looking for it. factor I noted was "X*0.019531" vs "X*0.019531-50" which I've seen in the BAM for instance.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on January 29, 2015, 07:45:28 PM
Thanks for the detective work. I wonder what the reason is for the -50 in the factor for TABGBTS on the BAM file? The main calculation is the same (x*0.019531). Is this just a calibration change for the 225hp hardware? Anyone able to offer insight for this? If the xdf is confirmed incorrect I will make the necessary adjustments and update the file on page 1.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on February 02, 2015, 08:12:31 AM
Thanks for the detective work. I wonder what the reason is for the -50 in the factor for TABGBTS on the BAM file? The main calculation is the same (x*0.019531). Is this just a calibration change for the 225hp hardware? Anyone able to offer insight for this? If the xdf is confirmed incorrect I will make the necessary adjustments and update the file on page 1.

I looked at several other 1.8t damos files and the value equation has been (x*0.019531) - 50 for them.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on February 02, 2015, 08:43:09 AM
Attached are ignition coil maps I located based on this thread (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4117.0).

Been working on adjusting for 2.0t coils as the 2.0t coils I have had installed for the last ~30k miles just started to getting sluggish in low rpms.

I did some logs of my first 12 mins of everyday driving from a cold start on both a set of good 1.8t coils and good 2.0t coils.  I compared tsrldyn for both sets of coils, see attachment, and with adjustments to  FTSDRLW, KFTSRL, FSWTM, KFSZDUB, KFTSDYN, FTOMN, and KFSZT tsrldyn is lower especially in the low rpm range.  So far the car seems to be more responsive,will get some more logs and report back.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on February 02, 2015, 08:49:36 AM
I looked at several other 1.8t damos files and the value equation has been (x*0.019531) - 50 for them.

Ok, XDF updated!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Joelito138 on February 13, 2015, 09:47:04 AM
hey i tried using the 8E0909518AK tune file from this thread attach below on my  8E0909518AF ECU it only completed 15 out of 19 sectors. what should i do to make the checksums correct?sorry i know i should do more research but i know some of you guys are more knowledgeable so im asking for some help lmfao  ;D I also attach my stock file

Erase flash memory routine did not start or complete correctly.
Skipping flash sector and continuing flashing process.
98% complete.
Starting to flash data block.
Calculating flash checksum to determine if flashing is necessary for range: 0x008FC000 to 0x00900000
Flash checksum does not match new data, flashing is necessary.
Requesting flash memory erase for address range 0x008FC000 to 0x008FFFFF.
Erase flash memory routine did not start or complete correctly.
Skipping flash sector and continuing flashing process.
100% complete.
Disconnecting from ECU to force it to recognize successful completion of flash write.
Writing ECU flash memory succeeded. Wrote 15 of 19 sectors in flash memory.
Flashing time was 00:16:32.
Estimated premium full write time: 00:16:08.
Estimated premium fast write time: 00:01:31.
Restoring Windows sleep mode.
Disconnecting...
Disconnected


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: N7CommanderShepard on February 13, 2015, 10:33:25 AM
I'm also curious about that but I'm even more curious to know if we can indeed use the AK file on a AF ecu? ???


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Joelito138 on February 13, 2015, 11:09:12 AM
yea what he said ^^


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on February 13, 2015, 02:27:51 PM
I'm also curious about that but I'm even more curious to know if we can indeed use the AK file on a AF ecu? ???

Based on Joelito138 experience I would guess no.  Personally I would create an XDF based on the ECU you have using the AK XDF as a guide to locate maps (use the test version of winols then translate to XDF).


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: N7CommanderShepard on February 14, 2015, 08:22:27 AM
Cool makes sense.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Marty on February 19, 2015, 02:21:53 PM
You can use all on af. Hardware difrence being 5 speed vs 6 speed. Any time you change software versions always boot mode first time  :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on February 21, 2015, 01:48:59 AM
Here is a 3rd gear pull from a A4 B6 8E 2003 with BFB engine.

2,5" Exhaust, no DP and with cat
Pipercross Airfilter
Samco Turbohose
Forge Splittr China Knockoff



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on February 21, 2015, 06:24:44 AM
Nice one!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: narf0815 on February 22, 2015, 02:21:44 AM
Log was made with Shell V-Power (100 "german" octane).
The promised "high speed log" will come later. Still on winter tires...

What's a good upgrade next?
2,5" DP with 200cell cat

or

FMIC?

Or should this go to the Stage 2 Topic?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on March 09, 2015, 03:26:57 AM
Here is a 3rd gear pull from a A4 B6 8E 2003 with BFB engine.


The logical step is to move on to the stage 2 if your car is equipped with upgraded parts. Your log looks good to me, I'm happy that the tune works well on another car without much adjustment. If there are no reports of ill effects, I don't see any need to "improve" this tune from a performance standpoint, we're out of IDC. Perhaps just tweak the BTS fueling for a bit more safety.

The timing tables will need to be adjusted by end user if high quality gasoline cannot be used.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cobblers on March 14, 2015, 02:18:16 AM
Great thread! if a little hard to follow. I have read this over and over, while going through the supplied BINs and trying to understand exactly what has been changed and why, so that I can make a start on my own Stage 1 (6L Ibiza Cupra 1.8t) on an ME7.5.
However I'm finding it hard to really put together a cohesive "list" of tables I need to get involved with before logging and tweaking – there’s obviously several ways to skin a cat but I’m finding it awkward to find a place to start. I’ve more or less completed modifying the XDF supplied in the OP to suit my BIN (06A906032RP) and I’m eager to get started. The car already has a commercial stage 1, but I have cloned a spare ECU with a stock BIN and I'm starting from scratch as the existing tune has been obfuscated and I would rather learn from a stock file.

So, from what I can tell:
  • 1: Add some fuel at high load via LAMFA - Modify the axis and enrich it to 0.9063 at >90% load (or more if I want to use crappy cheap fuel)
  • 2: Increase Maximum load via LDRXN keeping initial ramp up angle similar but extending to allow 30/40% more around 3500RPM
  • 3: Modify timing via KFZW/KFZW2 (I have a commercial stage1 tune already on the car, it has been obfuscated but I have located and decoded both KFZW/KFZW2 in it, they are within about 4 or 5 degrees of stock across the board IIRC. I planned to use these as a starting point, obviously compared to the tables in the tuned file here)
  • 4: Modify Optimal Engine Torque via KMFIOP (Compare the adjustments made between the stock to tuned files and do similar to mine)
  • 5: Modify Desired Load via KFMIRL  (Again, Compare the adjustments made between the stock to tuned files and do similar to mine)
  • 6: Export, ME7sum, upload to car, take logs of 2nd gear pass, check for anything dangerous, log 3rd gear pass, check again and repeat 1-6  to refine the file.

Am I way off track anywhere?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thelastleroy on March 14, 2015, 06:50:52 AM
Yep, that's basically what we did here. If you're starting from scratch it's probably best to change one thing at a time and flash, log and analyze the results. This way you can see if the last change made a difference, for better or worse. If you change everything all at once you might see gains vs stock, but you won't be "optimizing" each table, if that makes sense.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cobblers on March 14, 2015, 06:56:04 AM
Great, thanks!

In the meantime, I got impatient and did basically all of the above, wrote it to the ECU and took the car out. Seems to pull harder than stock at some points, but I'm definitely hitting some kind of boost or fuel cut as boost is peaky and there's a great big flat spot. Only did a few pulls as I don't want to risk damaging anything.

I'll probably strip back to just LAMFA and LDRXN, and log from there. Thanks again, I'll try not to clutter this thread up too much!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: TLS on March 17, 2015, 07:43:38 PM
Leroy

Was there a straight answer as to why you rescaled Lamfa back to start at 50 -> and then still only used 90 and 97?



Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on March 21, 2015, 04:11:01 AM
I was copying the 2.7t guys. Some people bring fuel in much earlier in small increments.  I only ever needed the last two columns for this.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: N7CommanderShepard on March 23, 2015, 11:39:53 AM

1: Add some fuel at high load via LAMFA - Modify the axis and enrich it to 0.9063 at >90% load (or more if I want to use crappy cheap fuel)

So if we are to use 91 Octane US fuel (the tune made here is for 94 iirc) we have to increase enrichment?
What other adjustments would have to be made besides this?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on March 23, 2015, 01:40:58 PM
So if we are to use 91 Octane US fuel (the tune made here is for 94 iirc) we have to increase enrichment?
What other adjustments would have to be made besides this?

Much less timing.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: TLS on March 25, 2015, 12:24:50 AM
Okay, I'll try to illustrate the initial timing changes that I would make.

In the image entitled "new timing", you see the current timing curve which is the bright green line.  I've drawn with blue the timing curve I would like to achieve, more or less.  The changes noted below is my attempt at making the green like look more like the blue line I drew in.

Starting with the original values, I can see that we are making load that is off the end of the kfzw load axis.  So, I first would modify that axis to better fit our application.  In the last log I can see our load goes from 165 early on in the revs and tapers almost linearly down to 128 at 6000.  I will pick 165 as our last axis value, and move the 140 row back where 130 is now.  I then took the values from the last column (was 140) and pasted them into the second to last column (now 140).  Then I just took the values of the last row and took 1.5 degrees off of it.  I looked at the graph to verify that all the new values made a smooth transition at the end of the map.

The image entitled one shows where I then took areas from log where the timing flattens out, I added 2.25 degrees in the areas that needed more in the upper revs, and 1.5 degrees in the lower areas.  Now, you'll see I end up with a map that's lumpy.  This is were you can unleash your inner artist and smooth it all out.  I defined the two areas that I just modified as my "high points" of the maps, so I won't adjust those much more upward.  After you get done smoothing the curve, you should end up with something more like the image entitled two.

Most of the changes that I have made here equates to around 1.5 to 2.25 degrees advancement over the stock map.  It's tricky to see that though due to how the load axis was modified.

I would then take these changes, flash them, log them, and look for any timing correction factors.  If there are any CF's I would retard a bit at that rpm/load that the CFs started.  If we are still at 0 for cfs, I would continue to advance the timing in increments of 1.5-3.0 in the areas needed until I just barely start seeing CF's and then finally adjust that area down a hair.

Hope that all makes sense.
SB - Great post!

I'm working through this at the moment.
I have 156 as my max load on ldrxn (kind of arbitrarily, I am staying a bit more conservative than you and not messing with as much (at the moment)).
My last KFZW axis was 150 at stock, so I changed this to 156 and did an excel extrapolation to get new values.
My second last axis was 130.25 and I upped it to 134.25 and did an excel interpolate between the existing 130 and 150 numbers.

That was simple enough in the table, but for the axis I could not change them directly in TP. I had to use the TP HEX function, find the specific cells and change them in HEX.  It appears as though I took 156 / .75 (the factor used in the XDF axis conversion), used excel to =dec2hex the number and inserted the new HEX in the file.

Does it look like I got it right? (Noting that I have not tuned KFZW yet, as I am just getting the tune together and I was going to leave that until I had some logs from the LDRXN and LAMFA changes first.
Oh, and I have no VVT so I am leaving KFZW2 alone. (Well, the axes are rescaled but I figure not to change the table  - I guess I could change it to match my new inter/extra-polate values)





Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on March 25, 2015, 12:29:12 AM
There is no need to make changes to axis for that insignificant of a change. You're just making more work than is necessary.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: wayne on March 25, 2015, 05:52:07 PM
Hi everyone,

I had a look at the tune on 1st post and I'm a bit surprised with the LDRXN map. It is higher than the BAM map at peak boost and lower than a basic AUQ after 4k rpm. Is it because you are tuning on a k03 turbo and k03s, to run more timing advance or I'm completely out ?

I'm currently tunning a stage 1 tune (safe 91US/95 europe octane) on mine and then, since I have a lot of e85 station around (85% ethanol) pushing it with exclusive e85 tune. Would this be the appropriate place to post the stage 1 e85 tune ?



Title: Re:
Post by: thelastleroy on March 26, 2015, 03:34:26 PM
The boost curve was worked out to more or less top out the k03 on a AMB engine. It tapers off to maintain proper AFR in the high rpm range.  IDC was a factor.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ktm733 on March 27, 2015, 01:40:30 PM
I'm with him. I did a e85 tuning and I think it would be a good informational post on it. Then again this might belong in the stage 2 post as injectors are needed.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thefullmontee on April 07, 2015, 09:21:17 PM
Are the current files on the first OP updated and correct for a stage 1 tune?
Ready to flash over?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: TLS on April 07, 2015, 09:41:37 PM
I'm guessing that since this is supposed to be a tutorial (once cleaned up a bit) and not a hand-out, if you can't answer that question, then you probably should not flash them to your car.

Or just do it and see what happens.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thefullmontee on April 07, 2015, 09:45:24 PM
No need to be rude, question was simple. Just wondering if all the info is put back to the OP. I was assuming so since it showed a recent update this month. Ive been reading through it all. Ty tho


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: thefullmontee on April 07, 2015, 09:46:18 PM
Im using it a guide/tutorial just as intended. I plan on contributing as much as i can as i learn also


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: seany260 on April 16, 2015, 11:30:53 PM
Does anyone know the reason why MSLUB table in the v7 tuned file at the start of this thread has been modified from the stock file?
I'd just like to bring this to attention as I've had problems with trying to disable SAI using the most popular method of zeroing CDSLS/CWKONABG but did not work, instead I had to zero MSLUB/MSLBAS.
I've yet to test on stock values..
   


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on April 16, 2015, 11:46:46 PM
Does anyone know the reason why MSLUB table in the v7 tuned file at the start of this thread has been modified from the stock file?
I'd just like to bring this to attention as I've had problems with trying to disable SAI using the most popular method of zeroing CDSLS/CWKONABG but did not work, instead I had to zero MSLUB/MSLBAS.
I've yet to test on stock values..
   

If it didn't work, the addresses were wrong.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: seany260 on April 16, 2015, 11:52:12 PM
If it didn't work, the addresses were wrong.
THIS IS WHAT I USED
CDSLS -181BO- '01 TO 00'
CWKONABG- 181B8 '05 TO 00'


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: seany260 on April 17, 2015, 12:04:43 AM
Does anyone know the reason why MSLUB table in the v7 tuned file at the start of this thread has been modified from the stock file?
I'd just like to bring this to attention as I've had problems with trying to disable SAI using the most popular method of zeroing CDSLS/CWKONABG but did not work, instead I had to zero MSLUB/MSLBAS.
I've yet to test on stock values..
   

sorry maybe Im confusing things as usual, let me get this clear, I should not say that SAI disable did not work by zeroing CDSLS/CWKONABG as it was disabled and did not throw any DTC'S. My issue was that the cold start strategy with increased rpms stopped functioning when i used this method.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: masterj on April 26, 2015, 10:45:57 PM
sorry maybe Im confusing things as usual, let me get this clear, I should not say that SAI disable did not work by zeroing CDSLS/CWKONABG as it was disabled and did not throw any DTC'S. My issue was that the cold start strategy with increased rpms stopped functioning when i used this method.

That is expected. With cwkonabg you also disabling cat


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on April 26, 2015, 10:49:20 PM
That is expected. With cwkonabg you also disabling cat

Does the s4wiki entry need some work?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on April 27, 2015, 12:31:33 AM
Does the s4wiki entry need some work?

If you want to preserve that whatnot, set it to 01.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: MadCow on April 27, 2015, 04:26:35 PM
Does anyone know the reason why MSLUB table in the v7 tuned file at the start of this thread has been modified from the stock file?
   

I noticed that too, the actual numbers are barely different (identical up to 2 or 3 decimal places) so my guess is they all got raise/lowered by one bit somehow. I wouldn't worry about it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: joemontanez89 on May 16, 2015, 08:08:43 AM
soo... ive been reading these forums for some time now... i have a 04 b6 1.8t 6spd. my question is if i were to flash this will it harm my car if i use 93 octane? if so where would be a good starting point at adapting this to my needs? thanks in advance!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Jonamond on May 16, 2015, 08:27:34 AM
I'm sometimes without a station with 94, so I'm stuck with 91 from time to time. The ecu does pull timing, I think it was around 6-8 deg. I don't know the maximum amount of timing the ecu can pull but I haven't had any issues so far...

I wouldn't think 93 would be an issue, you can log and see how much, if any timing pull there is and go from there


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: 316LV on May 16, 2015, 01:18:05 PM
...I don't know the maximum amount of timing the ecu can pull but I haven't had any issues so far...

Stock it can pull 12* IIRC. At least that is the max I've seen in logging. Kinda scary to see -12 CF across all cylinders. No bueno.

Way back I was dumb and flashed someone else's tune without checking the timing first. Must have been set up for WMI is all I can figure because it was terrible for my stock set up.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on May 16, 2015, 02:47:02 PM
You can change that as well.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: joemontanez89 on May 16, 2015, 05:45:21 PM
sick! im gonna try to flash it tomorrow am and see whats up ill let you guys know!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: joemontanez89 on May 16, 2015, 09:49:04 PM
crap... so sad got a ch340 cable... got to wait till i can get to my buddies on tues now


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: 316LV on May 18, 2015, 12:22:20 PM
You can change that as well.

You are the man D! Did a bit of searching in the FR after I read your post... Sure enough there is a map for max retard- KRMXN. Mine varies from 11.25* to 12.75* up the rev range. I think that is stock, but not 100% sure. I've kinda lost track.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: sonique on May 26, 2015, 02:58:18 PM
hello
this 018ak file compatible 018AS BEX 193hp ?
because 18as not any damos or other help :(
crossflash working ? or hw diferent 2 engine ?
==============================================================================
ME7Check v1.12 (c) mki, 06/2004-05/2012
Checking file Audi A4 1.8T 8E0909518AS 0261208500 369011.org (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 06.02
-> EPK = 40/1/ME7.5/5/4016.32//24E/Dst03o/280703//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261208500'         (SSECUHN)         
   - '1037369011'         (SSECUSN)         
   - '8E0909518AS '       (VAG part number)
   - '0003'               (VAG sw number)   
   - '1.8L R4/5VT    '    (engine id)       
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - 'HW_MAN004'     

==============================================================================
ME7Check v1.12 (c) mki, 06/2004-05/2012
Checking file D:\8E0909518AK_368072.bin (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 06.02
-> EPK = 40/1/ME7.5/5/4012.31//24E/Dst03o/110403//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261208230'         (SSECUHN)         
   - '1037368072'         (SSECUSN)         
   - '8E0909518AK '       (VAG part number)
   - '0003'               (VAG sw number)   
   - '1.8L R4/5VT    '    (engine id)       
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - 'HW_MAN004

i think no problem crossflash but i asking safety ;)

sorry my english not very good


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 19, 2015, 11:11:31 PM
So, is the general consensus here that this file would be ok to use with 91 octane? I'm in california and that's all we have available unless I hunt down gas stations with race gas, but then that's overkill and inconvenient.

Also, if my stock ECU is a revision 0004, would this file still work fine?

Sorry for the amateur questions, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to this. (Planning on getting a spare ECU for this stuff).


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: B6_7093 on August 23, 2015, 05:53:30 AM
Hi guys can I flash it to a 8E0906019B (8884) ecu ?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 24, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
I've started doing some reading, but I wanted to ask some questions so that the following makes sense to me before I continue.  No long explanations needed, just help me get the concept and reasoning and I'll do further research on the subject on my own :)

1) What's the reason for dropping off boost so much as we get closer to redline? Couldn't we taper down only to about 10-11PSI?

2) Comparing LDRXNZK, I see stock and tuned values are the same - does this mean we're telling the ECU to revert to stock boost pressures if we get engine knock?

3) Looks like we haven't done anything to ignition timing maps in the tuned file -are changes not necessary for a stage 1 tune with stock ignition components?

4) Looking at LAMFA AFR (because I'm too lazy to look back and forth between that table posted and the LAMFA numbers), we're leaning out the mix closer to red line...is this why we've also reduced boost by 50% or so near redline? Couldn't we keep boost up and keep the mix closer to stock then leaning it out so much?

5) With KFMIRL, we're essentially adjusting how early and aggressively boost comes in, correct?

That's all for now, thank you!



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: TLS on August 24, 2015, 07:58:20 PM
I'm not meaning to be rude, but, read the whole thing twice before you get too excited.

1) See reply # 481 (previous page). The turbo compressor map is part of the answer, combined with injector duty cycle. This is Stage 1, remember.
2) Pretty much.
3) Which maps are you looking at? I thought there was some ign tweaking after the LAMFA and BTS were looked at and maybe around cam changeover.
4) I don't understand why you think the AFR is leaning. It goes from 14 down to 12.4 or 1 down to .84. (If you don't understand this, best not to flash your ECU. You are still too preoccupied with boost.)
5) No, I don't think that's the intent. You are describing the use of LDRXN, but KFMIRL can have side effects if you change it. Unfortunately there is a lot written about KFMIRL / KFMIOP on here that is either not right or right for the wrong reasons. I think the S4 wiki has some updated stuff on this. They are translators or conversion tables. We are mostly changing the resolution to make it have detail where we need it and to change the range if the new tune asks for parameters that are out of range on the initial tune. (You are still preoccupied with boost.)



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 24, 2015, 08:22:34 PM
Thank you for your reply. I did see my errors after reading your post. I'm not obsessing over anything one way or another, I'm just extremely tired and got my AFR ratios reversed :-/ I'll definitely do some more reading after I get some rest.

Thank you for explaining things :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 24, 2015, 08:34:34 PM
By the way,  I was talking about KFZW when I was said I didn't see ignition changes.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: TLS on August 24, 2015, 09:59:25 PM
It'll take you a few months of study to get up to speed.

Have a look at post reply #180. There is some discussion of KFZW there. You need to re-jig the axis limits to reach extra load IIRC. Then there is some fine tuning.
I have not double checked the V7 bin vs Stock bin to see the difference in KFZW and KFZW2. You might like to do that when you have had a nap.

:-)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 24, 2015, 10:52:53 PM
5) With KFMIRL, we're essentially adjusting how early and aggressively boost comes in, correct?

The last line(s) of KFMIRL don't request enough load to come near the LDRXN we are defining.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 24, 2015, 11:29:48 PM
The last line(s) of KFMIRL don't request enough load to come near the LDRXN we are defining.

Here's where I'm confused.  The values for KFMIRL, what's the formula for calculating those? I didn't see it in the wiki, but then again, I may be blind.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 29, 2015, 03:55:00 PM
How does the attached look for 91 octane? Don't be nice about it, just be brutally honest.. I know I barely understand this stuff, but we all started somewhere and I'd like to know if I'm at least on the right track...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 29, 2015, 04:38:16 PM
Here's where I'm confused.  The values for KFMIRL, what's the formula for calculating those? I didn't see it in the wiki, but then again, I may be blind.

It's load.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 29, 2015, 10:32:16 PM
Anyone have any comments on the AFRs I've posted?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on August 31, 2015, 07:03:19 AM
3) Looks like we haven't done anything to ignition timing maps in the tuned file -are changes not necessary for a stage 1 tune with stock ignition components?

Your correct the stage 1 file in the OP does not change KFZWOP/2. Based on this thread (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2801.0) it appears that it may not be required however since the axes were changed I interpolated the necessary data as a starting point.  These parameters may need further refinement, see information below from the thread above.

I always rescale KFZWOP when changing KFMIOP axis (shares same axis). Other than that only thing I can think of is when going to better fuel and seeing no knock while maximizing KFZW > KFZWOP

There is nothing to gain from this table. It is strictly used for interventions.

It is solely used to calculate ignition angle efficiency for a few different interventions. Ignition angles exceeding KFZWOP is fine. This will numb some interventions, but that's it.

Where it can really hurt you is in the torque model. It has a significant affect on torque intervention.

If you are greatly exceeding KFZWOP with zwbas and would like to preserve all of these wonderful interventions, then you can raise it's values. If you would like to numb these interventions further then you can lower it's values. I prefer to just leave it alone.


 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on August 31, 2015, 07:09:25 AM
How does the attached look for 91 octane? Don't be nice about it, just be brutally honest.. I know I barely understand this stuff, but we all started somewhere and I'd like to know if I'm at least on the right track...

This advice was provided in the LAMFA xdf parameter. 
I suggest requesting an AFR of between 11.5 (91 octane) and 12.5 (93 octane) to start from the RPM you hit peak boost, until redline.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 31, 2015, 11:35:27 AM
From what I read, I should be close with the fueling, no? Maybe go a bit more rich (11.5) but as far as before peak boost, do those numbers look ok? Or should it be getting richer, faster?

Nyet seems to know a thing or two about fueling and the struggles of 91 octane...Waiting for his input.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 31, 2015, 11:43:42 AM
for k03s, you shouldn't need 11.5 even on 91... you can aim for 12's.

the problem with k03s is that they spool so fast, it is hard to get to 12s before peak boost w/o really screwing up your gas mileage, esp if you are using BTS to get there.. which is why I prefer to use LAMFA for WOT fueling..

So ya, you're doing it right. You can try 11.9 or 12ish and see what kind of timing you can get.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on August 31, 2015, 10:21:39 PM
for k03s, you shouldn't need 11.5 even on 91... you can aim for 12's.

the problem with k03s is that they spool so fast, it is hard to get to 12s before peak boost w/o really screwing up your gas mileage, esp if you are using BTS to get there.. which is why I prefer to use LAMFA for WOT fueling..

So ya, you're doing it right. You can try 11.9 or 12ish and see what kind of timing you can get.

Awesome, thank you.  Would it be safe to try that tune with no other changes other than the AFRs I've posted (slightly adjusted to be closer to 12 though)? The ramp up on the AFR looks ok?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 31, 2015, 10:24:22 PM
The ramp up on the AFR looks ok?

The proof is in the logs.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on September 01, 2015, 09:13:10 AM
The last line(s) of KFMIRL don't request enough load to come near the LDRXN we are defining.

Nyet, would you mind explaining I don't understand?  Based on the LDRXN (load limit) it appears to be lower than KFMIRL (request torque to requested load conversion).

Also would you explain how KFMIRL should be tuned in general?

Thanks!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 01, 2015, 12:30:39 PM
Nyet, would you mind explaining I don't understand?  Based on the LDRXN (load limit) it appears to be lower than KFMIRL (request torque to requested load conversion).

Also would you explain how KFMIRL should be tuned in general?

Thanks!

Sorry for the confusion: I mean that the STOCK KFMIRL doesn't request enough load if you ONLY modify LDRXN..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 01, 2015, 01:05:09 PM
Like you said, logs told the tale. Still getting knock and pulling timing of about 8 or 9 degrees. Going to try going richer soon.

Lambts kicked in, guessing because of the timing and knock?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 01, 2015, 01:22:36 PM
Will post a log soon. Even with lamfa requesting 11.6, timing is pulled to almost 9 degrees on cyl 3-4, and a bit less on 1-2. Lambts is still taking over.

Time to start looking at ignition maps?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 01, 2015, 01:38:57 PM
Stock and tuned logs attached.... Maybe I should try correcting my knock and timing issues on the stock file first... I just thought to log a stock run and was surprised at the results.

IAT is reporting 75C...could that be it?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 01, 2015, 01:40:20 PM
Post the whole log. Also use the "file->export" function and not screen shots so we can see the whole thing.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 01, 2015, 02:32:30 PM
Hope I did this right....



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 01, 2015, 03:19:39 PM
Your requested LAMFA is delayed. Please reread the LAMFA section of the tuning wiki.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#LAMFAW

Don't bother with fixing timing until your AFR is actually where you want it. You aren't even CLOSE.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 01, 2015, 05:18:45 PM
Timing pull may be caused by a vacuum leak that I found near the airbox....$4 part that nobody stocks so I have to wait until thursday to find out.

I got suspicious when I saw timing being pulled on the stock tune and started poking around and found that stupid little elbow.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 06, 2015, 01:02:06 AM
Vacuum leak fixed, results still crappy....

I'm very curious about this reported IAT.... 75C at idle? can that be right? Maybe a bad IAT sensor causing the CF?

Latest log attached.  What am I missing?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on September 06, 2015, 06:41:00 AM
Vacuum leak fixed, results still crappy....

I'm very curious about this reported IAT.... 75C at idle? can that be right? Maybe a bad IAT sensor causing the CF?

Latest log attached.  What am I missing?


This, look at the attachment of your afr from the two logs.  It is richer than your previous but the delay still looks to be present.

Your requested LAMFA is delayed. Please reread the LAMFA section of the tuning wiki.


Are you running the latest tuned file (8E0909518AK_368072_NEF_STG_1v7 .xdf) ?  Timing was added at high loads from 2000 rpm on.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 06, 2015, 11:00:32 AM
Used that v7 tune file as a base since lamfa delay was supposed to be corrected in that.

Also seeing slight timing pull on stock tune but better than before. Another leak maybe? Could boost/vac leaks cause that much timing pull?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 06, 2015, 11:10:19 AM
Could boost/vac leaks cause that much timing pull?

No, unless it is affecting fueling, which isn't even right with respect to REQUESTED let alone actual.

You're putting the cart well before the horse.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 06, 2015, 11:59:25 AM
I say this with all due respect.... What isn't right about fueling? I'm being told that I'm doing things wrong with no direction of what's right. I'm not asking for a step by step, but you tell me it's wrong, but don't tell me why it's wrong so I have no idea as to what is right/wrong about anything I'm doing.

Again, I'm not at all trying to be an ass and I truly do appreciate everything this forum has done for people and all the help the members have given me so far. I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out what's right and wrong.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 06, 2015, 12:05:04 PM
Are you running 91oct?

If so, you need a lot more fuel sooner (see post about LAMFA delay), and probably need to pull some timing as well.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 06, 2015, 01:26:32 PM
Yes, 91 octane. I was as I believe 11.9:1, richer than that? Or just bring it in quicker than I am?

Thank you


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 06, 2015, 01:50:04 PM
Yes, 91 octane. I was as I believe 11.9:1, richer than that? Or just bring it in quicker than I am?

Thank you

Ya. You should be at or below 12 before peak boost.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 06, 2015, 06:15:37 PM
Made some progress I think....

Went back to stock timing maps, put in fuel a bit earlier....

Seems like fueling isn't necessarily doing what I want it to, but ignition is under control now.

What do you guys think? Delay correction for the Lamfa should be fine since I started with the community project file but it still seems a bit off.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 06, 2015, 06:24:09 PM
Delay correction for the Lamfa should be fine since I started with the community project file but it still seems a bit off.

It isn't ok. Log lamfa_w and you'll see it isn't good.

Please review the LAMFA section of the tuning page again.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=2637.0


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: TLS on September 06, 2015, 10:19:30 PM
Have you checked your fuel trims (and understand how they work)?
Remember that when you "clear codes" you also reset your trims and need to drive around a while to get them to regenerate.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 08, 2015, 04:39:57 PM
Well, I don't know what I'm doing right or wrong here....I need to get more organized with my bins and changes.  I flashed a file earlier that yielded better results than this current file but I overwrote the changes and didn't document exactly what I did.

Any ideas as to what to try next? Did I adjust KFTLAFA and ZKLAMFAW correctly?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 08, 2015, 04:42:22 PM
Have you checked your fuel trims (and understand how they work)?
Remember that when you "clear codes" you also reset your trims and need to drive around a while to get them to regenerate.



If I'm reading the logs correctly, fuel trims seem ok.  I could be wrong though.

One issue with everything that I've done today is that its about 105 degrees outside and I'm pretty sure the SMIC isn't going to keep up.  Considering I live in Los Angeles and it's almost always hot out here, I'm considering upgrading to an FMIC, even a cheapie from ebay has to be better than stock, no?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 08, 2015, 04:44:05 PM
Well, I don't know what I'm doing right or wrong here....I need to get more organized with my bins and changes.  I flashed a file earlier that yielded better results than this current file but I overwrote the changes and didn't document exactly what I did.

Any ideas as to what to try next? Did I adjust KFTLAFA and ZKLAMFAW correctly?

Much better :)

If anything, it may be a bit too early.. your gas mileage and/or spool may suffer...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 08, 2015, 04:53:05 PM
Well, that makes me feel a lot better. At least now I know I'm on the right track.

Looking at charge temps, can those be a factor in why  I'm getting knock? Or is it more likely still fueling at this point?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 08, 2015, 04:55:23 PM
Looking at charge temps, can those be a factor in why  I'm getting knock? Or is it more likely still fueling at this point?

On 91oct you may need more fuel (at or below 12) as was already pointed out.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 08, 2015, 05:04:16 PM
I was down to 11.9 on one file and still got retard, think I should go even richer than that?

Does the speed at which the turbo is spooling up look normal? I feel like it should spool up a bit quicker than it is...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 08, 2015, 05:20:01 PM
Thinking about trying the attached as the next set of afr values, it's just too hot to sit in the car while flashing today, I can't handle anymore of this heat.

Is even the stock timing to aggressive for the higher requested loads?

I feel like I may need to start looking at KFLAMKRL, DLAMTANS and KFLAMKRL but they aren't defined in the community project XDF.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 08, 2015, 05:21:54 PM
I was down to 11.9 on one file and still got retard, think I should go even richer than that?

Likely not. You'll just have to keep pulling timing until it goes away.

91oct sucks.

You can always try dialing back boost, but knowing if that makes more hp requires a dyno.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 08, 2015, 09:02:52 PM
I'm actually thinking I can just rewrite the lamfa table with the values and posted above, keep lxdrn as is and pull back ignition across the board by 1 degree and 2 degrees closer to redline/wot. Any thoughts?

I know the proof is in the logs lol, but does that sound like a solid plan?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 08, 2015, 11:40:27 PM
Is it possible to rescale the load axis for KFZW?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 08, 2015, 11:44:58 PM
Is it possible to rescale the load axis for KFZW?

No reason to whatsoever for stage 1.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 10, 2015, 12:45:26 AM
Latest log is attached.  Any comments? I'm sure I'm missing something.... the butt dyno says it's faster, but does everything look right?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 10, 2015, 01:07:54 AM
If I'm setting LAMFA fueling to an afr of 11.7ish:1, should I adjust KFLBTS to match as well?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on September 10, 2015, 08:46:42 AM
Much better :)

If anything, it may be a bit too early.. your gas mileage and/or spool may suffer...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on September 13, 2015, 01:35:53 AM
Hey guys, been awhile since I been in this thread but since my best friend has done a bunch of mods since we flashed the v7 file. I wanted to offer up some logs on his new setup.

I will log a v7 file and a stock file. I have already done some code outs to the current v7 file flashed to his car. Will post logs tomorrow afternoon.

Car & Mods

2003 A4 1.8T
** Shell V-Power 93 **
- Test Pipe to stock exhuast
*with only a magnaflow muffler about 2ft from test pipe, all other restrictions have been removed and striaght pipes welded in

- Samco TIP
- Open Element K&N Filter
- TFSI Coils w/NGK 7s @ stock gap
- Majestic FMIC Kit
- Forge 007 (change to middle spring)
* Stage 2 Clutch
* Upgraded Street Motor Mounts

Deleted or Removed (Coded Out)
- Rear o2
- SAI

My Buddy is itching for Anti-lag but Ive told him thats beyond my abilities to figure out for him.

We just finished installing everything tonight @ 12am car felt great on test drive, seeing 13psi max and taper to 7psi by redline.

I will try to custom tune his car but I am alittle handicapped at that even with my A6 2.7T (L-Box)



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on September 13, 2015, 08:11:10 PM
Here are 2 logs from just the Community Stage 1v7 file.

I used 2 config files I found, one was Stage_1_log and the other was one I found 518AK_Typical

The complete 3rd gear log was with Stage_1_Log.cfg
2nd Log was with log_typical_518AK
*which is cut short about 6k cause of traffic.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on September 15, 2015, 07:26:45 AM
Here are 2 logs from just the Community Stage 1v7 file.

I used 2 config files I found, one was Stage_1_log and the other was one I found 518AK_Typical

The complete 3rd gear log was with Stage_1_Log.cfg
2nd Log was with log_typical_518AK
*which is cut short about 6k cause of traffic.

AudiMan, I believe the V7.bin generally has LAMFA delay, see page 36 of this thread and http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#LAMFAW .


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on September 20, 2015, 02:23:03 PM
I ended up zero-ing the entire TLAFA table and went to 80 I think of the ZKLAMFAW tables.

Comparing the stock to the V7 bin, the values in the ZKLAMFAW tables were changed, but I think they were actually lower in the V7 bin.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on September 20, 2015, 08:45:33 PM
I ended up zero-ing the entire TLAFA table and went to 80 I think of the ZKLAMFAW tables.

Comparing the stock to the V7 bin, the values in the ZKLAMFAW tables were changed, but I think they were actually lower in the V7 bin.

So your changes are:
KFTLAFA_0/1_A - 0s
KFZKLAMFAW_0/1_A - 10s (?)
ZKLAMFAW  - 80

Would you mind posting a log?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on October 04, 2015, 11:01:07 PM
I'll have to go back through and look at exactly what I did with the values but the changes were reflected in my latest log I posted (I think).

Sorry, it's been a while since I've had time to mess with the car and I don't remember the details


Title: Re:
Post by: AudiMan85 on December 04, 2015, 03:06:26 AM
Sorry. I been busy, both me and my friend had to move. We are now 30mins apart.

I didn't realize the change in the files. I will update his tune tomorrow and see if he wants to meet up. Mind you this is FL and we been warm but have a small cold wave coming thru so might be a few days, us Floridians stay in doors when it gets cold lol


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Sugar_Mist on January 12, 2016, 10:27:04 PM
What kind of changes would I need to make to flash this to my MKIV 1.8t 2001 gti on 93 octane? I am very new to this and not even quite sure how to flash the bin?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: vwaudiguy on January 12, 2016, 11:03:20 PM
What kind of changes would I need to make to flash this to my MKIV 1.8t 2001 gti on 93 octane? I am very new to this and not even quite sure how to flash the bin?

Similar, but not the same. Those two cars use different fuel delivery systems. The hardware is similar, but not the same. You should do about a month's worth (daily) of reading before even thinking of making any changes. Get comfortable with the theory first, then get comfortable with the flashing/logging process, then start by making small changes one at a time to your original file.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on January 13, 2016, 12:42:13 AM
What kind of changes would I need to make to flash this to my MKIV 1.8t 2001 gti on 93 octane? I am very new to this and not even quite sure how to flash the bin?

I wouldn't recommend you go flashing files before you understand exactly what it is you are doing.  After you do lots and lots and lots of reading and start to understand what it is that you are changing in those files, I suggest you get a spare ecu, keep your original ECU as a backup in case something happens, then start learning how to flash before learning how to edit files.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Ricky_MK4 on January 26, 2016, 10:39:19 PM
hi!, i'm new to this forum and new to remapping , unfortunately i live in Puerto Rico and we do not have 94 octane gas here we have 93 octane and the more accessible 91 octane, i know i have to change the fueling and timing maps for it to work properly but can anyone point me in the right direction as on how to do it and or witch values to use in the fuel/timing maps?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on February 14, 2016, 05:01:29 PM
Hey guys, can someone please verify the changes I need to make? Can someone send me a file or tell me what file would have the correct changes to stop the delayed lamba.

I will just compare the file to the V7 I have already setup for my friends car. Would it be cool for me to post the file with the code outs already done just to contribute?

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160214/d41c1c9f3abd8633371abf28e64cc43a.jpg)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on February 15, 2016, 06:56:45 AM
I think only KFTLAFA (there are two) need to be lowered.


Title: Re:
Post by: AudiMan85 on February 26, 2016, 09:52:30 AM
So zero them out?

Also, my friends car has blown 2 coils so far on the 2.0T coils. Can anyone tell me where to get the dwell time changes from?


Title: Re:
Post by: nyet on February 26, 2016, 10:35:13 AM
So zero them out?
No.


Title: Re:
Post by: A4Rich on February 26, 2016, 10:52:23 AM
Also, my friends car has blown 2 coils so far on the 2.0T coils. Can anyone tell me where to get the dwell time changes from?
Check out thread 1 (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4117.0) and thread 2 (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/630346-2-0T-FSI-Coil-conversion-DWELL-SETTINGS).

I have used both settings without any issues. Will post the xdf  I defined in a bit.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: A4Rich on February 26, 2016, 11:00:38 AM
Just to add I believe (needs confirmation/testing) I located DLAMFAW based on the location in a similar bin (thanks ddillenger).

DLAMFAW 8bit @ 1932F with a factor of 0.007813 and a value = 0.0156


Title: Re:
Post by: AudiMan85 on February 26, 2016, 02:47:43 PM
What xdf are you guys using. The 3 I have do not show any results for those tables to make changes based on the xls file posted on thread 1 or 2 from A4Rich's post above.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: AudiMan85 on February 26, 2016, 02:58:03 PM
Ok. Here is a file I coded out the SAI and rear o2. It also has the lamba delay fixed. Enjoy to anyone who needs it.

It doesn't have the memory validation fixed so don't freak out guys.

Will upload file when I get home.

UPDATE
*7-17-17*
CHECK MY MOST RECENT POST FOR THE FILE I PROMISED. Sorry for long delay. I am just modifying my friends file with some changes so I decided to pull his file last week simce a year ago I lost a Hard Drive and didnt have the file to post. So and this file wit the changes I talked to Daz about back in 2016 . The file will be posted but not with any new changes since the date of this OP.


Title: Re:
Post by: A4Rich on February 26, 2016, 10:37:57 PM
What xdf are you guys using. The 3 I have do not show any results for those tables to make changes based on the xls file posted on thread 1 or 2 from A4Rich's post above.

This is the xdf that I used.  :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: rasima on March 06, 2016, 10:34:05 PM
Hello to everybody.

Just upload a Thelastleroy's tunning bin to my A4B6 1.8T AMB and its really perfect.

My respect to Thelastleroy and to all who spend a time on the tuning.

I 'd like to get help how to disable the 2nd lambda cause have no Cat.

Would you please help.

My respect to all.

 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on March 06, 2016, 11:17:30 PM
I just noticed that there are changes to KFMIRL and KFMIOP from the stock to the tuned file.  Are those changes processed through changed in LDRXN or is this something that we must calculate on our own? If we have to do this, then what is the proper formula here?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on March 06, 2016, 11:26:32 PM
http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Specifying_requested_boost

Quote
make sure the 80-100% torque request (misopl1=milsol/etazwbm/etalab) rows request enough load:


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: bl33su on March 29, 2016, 05:12:23 PM
has anyone tested this on a MK4 platform? im assumiong it should work right..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on March 29, 2016, 10:23:58 PM
has anyone tested this on a MK4 platform? im assumiong it should work right..

You want to flash this file to a mk4? Or use what you have learned here, and modify the same maps in a mk4 binary to achieve similar results?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: e_pacman on March 31, 2016, 08:04:52 AM
Quick question:
I believe I have managed to find LAMFA in my ECU, but it looks like the column axis could be turned back to front... What do you think? Is it possible that it actually looks like this, beeing lean at 50 and 1 everywhere else? Or is the axis representation the other way around in my ECU compared to the project file?



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: e_pacman on March 31, 2016, 09:10:52 AM
... this, beeing lean at 50 and 1 everywhere else?


Not lean of course, I meant rich.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ddillenger on March 31, 2016, 05:05:26 PM
Quick question:
I believe I have managed to find LAMFA in my ECU, but it looks like the column axis could be turned back to front... What do you think? Is it possible that it actually looks like this, beeing lean at 50 and 1 everywhere else? Or is the axis representation the other way around in my ECU compared to the project file?



It looks like your file may be defined incorrectly. Post it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: e_pacman on March 31, 2016, 11:58:23 PM
Right, so what I did was I copied the LAMFA stuff from the project XDF and adjusted the adresses. I actually also tried lowering the 0.95 column to 0.85, flashed it in the car, and lambda went straight to 0.85 on full load.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Marty on April 15, 2016, 02:15:55 AM
has anyone tested this on a MK4 platform? im assumiong it should work right..
If you wanna brick your ecu works perfect


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: R.Spec on April 15, 2016, 10:34:33 AM
Alright, so I was able to cross flash this to my ecu ending in AF. Worked like a charm and the car started right up. I lowered my desired afr slightly due to always tuning cars on the safer side, and we have crap gas around here 91 octane. 3rd-5th gear were boosting pretty good and felt fairly decent. Hitting about 13-14psi depending on starting load. However the vehicle is requesting way too much desired boost in 1st and 2nd gear. Close to 30psi, absolutely unsafe and making knock voltage off the charts  :o. All in all, i have worked with multiple PID style controllers in the past on different standalones, boost controllers etc. But I am having trouble finding the maps to adjust the settings. A little help would be appreciated.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on April 15, 2016, 11:06:29 AM
I think you are looking at your log incorrectly.   ME7 will only ever request up to ~2550mbar max, that's 22.5psi at sea level. 

You log shows a max boost request of around 15psi.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: R.Spec on April 15, 2016, 11:31:54 AM
I think you are looking at your log incorrectly.   ME7 will only ever request up to ~2550mbar max, that's 22.5psi at sea level. 

You log shows a max boost request of around 15psi.

Am I incorrect in believing that mbar = millibar?

because I am seeing 2020 mbar being desired. and 2020mbar = 29.2psi


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Lost on April 15, 2016, 01:26:11 PM
Thats icl atm pressure. So boost is around 1 -1.1 bar


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: R.Spec on April 15, 2016, 01:51:11 PM
Thats icl atm pressure. So boost is around 1 -1.1 bar

<3 Thank you. absolute pressure. So it's just manifold pressure. Not actually boost (the addition of forced induction upon atmospheric). So I understand that. Now, my own logger through the torqued app shows 19-20psi under boost on throttle in 1st and 2nd gear. Is that also incorrect. What does the car push for stock boost (because I used to see 7-8psi)?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: SB_GLI on April 15, 2016, 07:19:56 PM
based off your log, your smart phone app is wrong.  Do you not have a mechanical gauge?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on May 02, 2016, 01:26:20 AM
So, let me ask a dumb question here. 

If we change LDRXN values, what other tables need to be modified to cope with the changes? I presume the ECU will try to fix things if one or more tables aren't changed to match LDRXN changes, correct?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on May 02, 2016, 11:01:47 AM
If NO hardware is different from stock, you can't just change LDRXN and expect anything to work... in particular, KFLDIMX


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on August 04, 2016, 04:50:33 AM
I'm guessing oc pc probably had downloaded the community project and wanted to tweak the file in order to provide himself with higher boost. But I could be wrong  ???


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: black on August 07, 2016, 07:37:16 AM
the XDF files here contain KFDLULS. But in AK there is no KFDLULS.

KLDLUL is at address: 27F47 (*5) and x-axis at address: 27F3F (*10 sign)





Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 07, 2016, 11:42:49 AM
I'm guessing oc pc probably had downloaded the community project and wanted to tweak the file in order to provide himself with higher boost. But I could be wrong  ???

In that case, no, simply changing LDRXN would not be a good idea

1) the community file already requests a peak boost near the stock MAP limit
2) the high RPM boost req is already close to stock injector max capabilities
3) if actual boost is not meeting request, changing LDRXN is not the correct fix.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: TheCream on August 10, 2016, 09:47:04 PM
I am trying to sort out maps in WinOLS. I am using an lp/pl.xdf. I have attatched a screencap of 2 hexdumps. On the left is the 032RN.bin (6-speed GLI). On the right is the 032lp/pl.bin(5speed GTI). How do I select the map in gray as that is the correct address for the LAMFA map on the 023rn.bin. Is there a way to change the factor or offset for the entire hexdump to align the 2 maps? Or is there a way to make the map manually? I want to find the maps in the rn file so I don't have to mess with finding the gearing maps to set the correct properties for my 6speed.

EDIT: I should add that when I switch to 2d, it shrinks the view, and when I try to make the map selection, it selects the pre-made map, not my selection. I was using this as a reference, and cannot get it to work properly. https://sites.google.com/site/vagecumap/winols-guide (https://sites.google.com/site/vagecumap/winols-guide)



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: k0mpresd on August 10, 2016, 09:52:28 PM
I am trying to sort out maps in WinOLS. I am using an lp/pl.xdf. I have attatched a screencap of 2 hexdumps. On the left is the 032RN.bin (6-speed GLI). On the right is the 032lp/pl.bin(5speed GTI). How do I select the map in gray as that is the correct address for the LAMFA map on the 023rn.bin. Is there a way to change the factor or offset for the entire hexdump to align the 2 maps? Or is there a way to make the map manually? I want to find the maps in the rn file so I don't have to mess with finding the gearing maps to set the correct properties for my 6speed.

this is covered in the ols help manual. "k" is the answer btw.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on August 13, 2016, 08:02:02 PM
In that case, no, simply changing LDRXN would not be a good idea

1) the community file already requests a peak boost near the stock MAP limit
2) the high RPM boost req is already close to stock injector max capabilities
3) if actual boost is not meeting request, changing LDRXN is not the correct fix.

There you have it! He put it down more clear than a VVS Diamond!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on August 22, 2016, 07:00:16 PM
I have been reading over nefmoto everyday for about a month now and would first like to thank everyone for their contributions. I was hesitant to flash the AK.bin in replacement of my AF.bin (2003 A4 1.8t quattro tiptronic), so I read along and made changes to my ecu's original file as I went. Eventually, I decided to screw it and just flash the nefmoto community file over because I was having trouble finding all the .xdf addresses I wanted. The AK.bin transferred over smoothly and the car has been running well since.

I may have a leaking fuel injector because I was recently running a MBC\MAP diode, however, I have since reverted back to stock(n75\removed diode). I was running way to much boost (16-18psi) for my stock injectors and I probably f'd one or more up while running the mbc. I now have a rough start, but everything runs well after the second crank. Everything runs well that is except for the deviation in AFR which you can see in my logs. Also I believe cylinder 3 knock is a little erratic and may be the culprit for the bad injector. Needless to say I have already decided to go for the 550cc EV14 injectors and will be ordering them this month. When I install the new injectors I plan on contributing to the 1.8t stage2 post here on nefmoto.

My car is stock with an exception of a short ram intake\custom heat shield. I live in Atlanta GA and the weather has been high 90s for the last couple months so heat soak is always a HUGE problem. Logs attached are using the nefmoto_stage1_tuned.bin.

Cheers


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on August 22, 2016, 07:01:26 PM
Added my first and second nefmoto_stage1_tuned log.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 22, 2016, 07:28:26 PM
what are your ltfts


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on August 22, 2016, 07:59:34 PM
what are your ltfts

Update*
I just reset my codes and went for a 45min drive keeping an eye on fuel trims. At idle my stft went down to -14, ltft = 0 just after reset. While driving at WOT stft consistently goes up to +25, If I drive at part throttle stft = mid teens. When I got back to the house the ltft read -3.9. A few months ago I did a boost leak test (20psi) and didn't find any leaks. Possibly fuel injectors? Vac leak? I've felt like the car runs slightly like a turd ever since I bought it.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on August 26, 2016, 01:32:42 PM
I've felt like the car runs slightly like a turd ever since I bought it.

When you say it seems like it has ran like a turd ever since you bought it, how big of a poo snake are we talkin here?

Just off the top of my head I'd say try these things. Some of them may be obvious and its probably already been taken care of but anyways...

See if you can convince a buddy to let you borrow his coils for a couple minutes just so you guys can go for a quick drive around the neighborhood... You could definitely experience notable losses in power if your coils are on their way out, but they still have just enough juice left in them to not trigger a DTC...

Also are you logging overall misfire count? this would tell you right off whether or not you might have 1 or more weak coils...

Next obviously, have you done a tuneup since you bought the car? Spark plugs are super cheap if you haven't yet. Go get some copper NGKs... Also oil? You gotta feed her some of that delicious liquid GOLD! nectar of the gods!! Full Synthetic!! (I use castrol EDGE 0w - 40 "European Blend" its spec for our engines but depending on your climate you may want something with a bit more weight. Thats just my spring time/summer time jam)

What kind of filter are you running? stock air box? stock airbox with K&N? swiss cheese mod? cotton gauze cone filter? Round black colored piece of foam with a revo logo spraypainted on it?... Whatever it is give it a look see, if its long life and washable like most k&n and AEM dryflow filters give it a good cleaning...

I could go on forever... Long story short rule out any possibilities of hardware issues then move onto software. Same process goes for troubleshooting computer related issues.

Good luck man


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on August 28, 2016, 12:39:24 AM
When you say it seems like it has ran like a turd ever since you bought it, how big of a poo snake are we talkin here?

It only runs like a small poo snake... I've just had a sneaking suspicion of a vacuum leak ever since I bought it. Turns out my EGR/combination valve for the SAI was stuck open, which I found a couple days ago. A SAI block off plate is in the mail as we speak. I've replaced spark plugs, coil packs, all fluids. I had to rewire the coil pack wires because they were super corroded and left me stranded on the side of the road. I'm about to do a large vacuum delete as well as SAI delete in a few days as seen in this thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/235106-DIY-B6-1-8t-Vacuum-line-and-Check-Valve-removal-simplification (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/235106-DIY-B6-1-8t-Vacuum-line-and-Check-Valve-removal-simplification). As far as my air filter goes I have deleted my stock air box and am running a k&n directly on my MAF with a custom heat shield. I'm pretty sure I'll have the poo snake flushed in a few days... Thanks for taking the time to help me out!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 28, 2016, 11:55:54 AM
Did you recalibrate for no airbox?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on August 28, 2016, 05:19:47 PM
Did you recalibrate for no airbox?

I haven't recalibrated anything for the lack of an airbox yet, I actually didn't think it would make much of a difference. I just removed all the SAI stuff and am going to reroute the air filter where the SAI pump was located because I'm still getting mad IATs. How would I go about making adjustments for my intake setup, or what variables can I look at to tune it correctly? MAF adjustments? Thanks for the help guys!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on August 28, 2016, 09:54:39 PM
It is nearly impossible. The lack of an airbox makes MAF readings very unpredictable and non linear.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: vwaudiguy on August 29, 2016, 12:22:06 AM
The lack of an airbox makes MAF readings very unpredictable and non linear.

And I think of how many cars I see with the airfilter on the end of the maf open in the bay.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on August 29, 2016, 01:22:15 AM
I still have the stock airbox if I end up needing to put that back on I suppose. I have a problem with trying to free up as much space as possible in the engine compartment and I hope it doesn't come down to putting the plastic box back in. I'm going to do some tests... After I finish removing/simplifying some emissions systems this week I will take another log, if the log doesn't yield good A/F I will put the box back on and log again. I am/was planning on adding an aprox. 12 inch long curved pipe to the MAF and relocating the filter where the old SAI pump was. I have hopes of the tube adding some stability to the airflow and consistency to the MAF readings. Lets keep in mind I am having a rough start due to (I think) leaky injector/s, which I am replacing with some EV14 550s in a couple weeks. My cylinder 3 knock voltage seems consistently high so it might point at that injector. Either way, I am going to solve this problem as soon as possible and continue thrashing for the stage2 1.8t thread. I feel like this is getting way off subject for what this thread was made for...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on September 13, 2016, 04:11:55 AM
Just finished reading this awesome thread from beginning and it seems everyone is using wideband ECUs. Can I go the same way having a narrowband ecu in my car or there's different approach when tuning NB's?
I do have a wideband ecu laying around but there's few things (rear O2, SAI, CAN reception e.t.c) that needs to be disabled before i can use it in my car.  ::)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: adam- on September 13, 2016, 05:05:05 AM
You can't just put a wideband ECU into a NB car; it doesn't work like that.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on September 13, 2016, 06:30:30 AM
I know. Engine is swapped into 1994 Audi 80 and I made wiring as it was for wideband (with correct O2 sensor connector and camshaft changeover valve prewired) just running nb ECU, nb O2 sensor and "static" camshaft tensioner at the moment.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on October 03, 2016, 11:33:09 AM
So I decided to give it a go, took my own ECUs bin, modified LDRXN and LAMFA tables/axis using this threads v7 file as an example. Car does go noticeably better but I ran into an issue I've been trying to chase down with limited success - it does not rev all the way to limit (6700rpm). It might not be a big deal since it's my daily car and I'm not revving it hard, but I'm very interested to find out why it does that. Revs doesn't drop or anything, it just don't go past ~5,5k rpm.
My first idea after reading this thread was injectors, but after looking at log, EGTs was below 850C and IDC was ~80% so that looks like won't be an issue. Since ignition system is converted to COP type coils, I took a look at dwell time map (KFSZT). I rember Prj saying 2-2.5 ms is good for these coils but at 13-14v @6000 rpm it was 1.3ms in my ECU. For quick test I copied over KFSZT map from AWT engine which has these coils as standard and went for testdrive. Car accelerated more freely than before all the way to limit. I thought I'm done with the issue until today when I went for another run to log it. Again ~5.5k rpm and no more.
Anyone please can take a look at log, what I've done wrong or not done at all? I'm out of ideas at the moment.
Engine is almost stock with some modifications:
- 058 1.8T with stock internals and stock turbo
- mildly ported small port head
- 50mm intake, FMIC, stock throttlebody and manifold, stock injectors and fpr
- 70mm downpipe, no cats, 50 or 55mm rest of exhaust (will change it to 60mm after drivetrain swap)
- Stock size MAF from different engine (AWT) with MLHFM map copied over
- COP coil conversion with NGK BKR6E plugs
- N75 valve from 2.0TFSI (because it was 12eur for new Pierburg)
- Crankcase breather system is all new with some modifications like 06A valve cover with breather outlet and oil catch can returning to intake just like stock.
Head and block surfaces were skimmed, but I used stock thickness headgasket if that changes something. Using only 98e petrol.
Sorry for such long post but I wanted to describe as much as I can hoping someone can help me to solve this so I can continue with tuning.
Thanks!  :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 03, 2016, 11:38:04 AM
You're hitting one of the soft rev limiters for some reason.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on October 03, 2016, 12:20:38 PM
Is there anything else I need to log that could help? This log was done using configuration file found on this thread (posted by Leroy IIRC) with commented out things that wasn't in my *.ecu file. I've also enabled left foot braking (NWPMBBR/VWPMBBR), but I don't think that has anything to do with this issue.  ::)
Will take car to another run tomorrow.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 03, 2016, 12:39:02 PM
Is there anything else I need to log that could help?

Not that you can find w/o disassembly IIRC. You probably just want to double check all the RPM limiters in your bin.

Find the one that matches what you are seeing, what conditions it triggers under, and if it correlates with what might be happening.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on October 04, 2016, 12:06:47 PM
Thanks for reply. Checking limiters came into mind right after you mentioned, but I guess there's more than few of them, isn't it? A little problem with this is that there is no fully defined bin for my ECU, so I had to take the longest route learning how to find maps and define them starting from scratch. So far I got pretty good definition for basic tuning including some rpm limiters, but none of them is set nearly ~5700rpm (NMAX ir 6600 not 6700 I said before). I think i have a homework to do - dig through ME7 datasheet looking for something containing NMAX/NMX and try to locate them in my bin, right?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 04, 2016, 12:08:08 PM
Yes. NMAXDV is the closest candidate I can find offhand w/o knowing more about your setup.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on October 04, 2016, 12:50:15 PM
Yep, that caught my eye too. Haven't found it in my bin yet, but looking at other defined bin it's about the same value as NMAX. Will try to find it.
What else do you need to know about my setup? I've posted my original bin and definitions here: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7004.0


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on October 06, 2016, 09:52:44 AM
Did three more test runs today and RPM wall it hits is randomly different in each run. First run it revs up to 6250, turned around at the end of the road for another run - 5000, then again for one more - 5400. Does not look like soft limiter for me. At least nothing single value-like. ::)
Will try to lower LDRXN and see what happens then.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 06, 2016, 10:39:42 AM
Did three more test runs today and RPM wall it hits is randomly different in each run. First run it revs up to 6250, turned around at the end of the road for another run - 5000, then again for one more - 5400. Does not look like soft limiter for me. At least nothing single value-like. ::)
Will try to lower LDRXN and see what happens then.

Any codes? I see the injectors cutting out, but not the throttle plate closing.

Please post more runs. If it is always at the same MAF reading, check KFMLDMX and MLMAX

If you lower LDRXN it will just mask the issue and you'll never solve it..


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on October 06, 2016, 11:54:19 AM
The only code I'm getting is about crash signal from airbag, but that's because there's no airbags and CANbus in my car. Even after ~450km drive.
I got logs from all 3 todays runs. First and second runs are in v1 file, third is in v2. I advanced KFZW timing a little bit to see if there's any difference but it made none, so flashed back my previous bin. That should explain differences in ignition retard compared to my previous log.  ::)
MAF readings looks ok for me, higher it revs, higher the reading goes, does not stop at the same value each time.
Ok, will not touch LDRXN.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 06, 2016, 04:59:35 PM
Take another look at KFMLDMX and MLMAX again and make sure they aren't close.

The "same" MAF isn't really exactly right, since KFMLDMX isn't a single constant.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on October 08, 2016, 01:10:31 PM
I agree your issue won't be resolved, not even close, by altering LDRXN... If you made any changes to kfmirl/kfmiop you need to ensure that any maps sharing axis' with kfmiop have been rescaled to reflect the changes made. For example, if your kfmiop axis was something like: 9...40...72...120...150 stock and now because of the changes made in kfmiop, your kfmiop axis is now something like 9...59...96...147...189 you'll need to make sure that all of the maps sharing the kfmiop axis now carry the same values. Also, any maps sharing those values now need to be adjusted according to the new axis values.

Basically I think whats happening is that your reaching the highest load point from your stock file, and once you reach that load your ecu is now having difficulties figuring out where to go next. thats why your experiencing your issues at slightly different rpms... just a thought. nyet is far more experienced than me so I must disclaim to prevent you from making any mistakes or causing any damage due to my suggestions.

Also, what gear is this occurring in, I'm not sure if you mentioned that already.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 08, 2016, 02:39:22 PM
No. Load is decreasing when the fuel cuts out.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on October 08, 2016, 03:16:52 PM
Thanks for helping me out  ;)
Here's my KFMLDMX map:
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee367/pagalms/kfmldmx_zpsvjgidydv.png)
I haven't found MLMAX yet because it's a single value and I still have problems to find them if they're somewhere else than in bins I'm using to define my own.  ::)
For testing purposes I increased KFMLDMX map, flashed it and did at least 10 2nd to 3rd gear WOT runs during the day. Two of them topped out at 6000rpm, all others went all the way to NMAX (6600rpm).I'll leave it like that for few more days just to be sure.
What was interesting for me, there was only one ignition retard event in one cylinder with this tune compared to my previous tunes. Maybe not a big deal, but still...
I haven't mentioned gear this is occurring, but it can be seen in my logs. It's 3rd gear, but it happens in 2nd too. Testing 1st is useless and haven't tried 4th because I don't want to lose my drivers license (even 3rd tops out at ~130kmph with 90kmph allowed, 50kmph on the road I'm using to test my tunes). IRL/IOP maps are untouched, I think I need some more reading to fully understand how they work before messing with them.
Log with modified KFMLDMX map attached :)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on October 08, 2016, 06:41:03 PM
Wait.. wut?  ???  :-[

I think you might have missed school for a couple days brother lol... Heres the homework so you can get caught up before Mr. Nyet hits you wit da pop quiz!

homework for the two days you we're out:



Specifying requested boost

First, make sure the 80-100% torque request (misopl1=milsol/etazwbm/etalab) rows request enough load:

    KFMIRL - specified load
    KFMIOP - converts rlmax (from LDRXN) into the torque request cap, which limits the torque request input to KFMIRL

Note that milsol will be limited by the output of KFMIOP (where the load input is rlmax), and the stock values of KFMIOP never exceed 89%. This means that unless you alter KFMIOP, the largest torque request KFMIRL will see is 89%

Specified load/boost will never exceed these limits:

    LDRXN - maximum specified load
    KFLDHBN - maximum requested pressure ratio

Specifically, on a full throttle pull, your boost profile will follow LDRXN.

If it does not follow LDRXN, requested load may be getting limited by ldrlts_w (ChargeLimitTurboProtection), which comes from KFLDHBN (after being converted from pressure ratio, to absolute pressure, to load).

K03s and K04s have some severe flow limitations, so unlike big turbos, you will want your boost to taper (not ramp up) to redline. ECUxPlot has a pressure ratio/flow plotter that you can use to compare against your turbo's compressor map.

You will throw a 17963 Charge pressure: Maximum limit exceeded code if your boost deviation is too high:


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 10, 2016, 03:05:59 PM
I'm back, and I have been doing a little work since my last post on August 29th. I was having A/F deviation problems and thought it might be my fuel injectors or some type of fuel pressure issue. I replaced my stock injectors with some EV14 550cc injectors, replaced my fuel filter/regulator (again), and inspected the fuel pump which looked good to me. The problem is solved! It seems the cheap filter (beck and arnley) I bought on amazon a few months back was defective and would cause me to loose fuel pressure as soon as I cut the engine off, which gave me hard starts every time. I just replaced with another filter (meyle) that was made in Germany and my fuel pressure is holding and I no longer have hard starts. :)

I can finally start working on the stage 2 thread, but I may have a couple questions before I go any further. My A/F requested is a sloped line and I would like it to be flat/horizontal. How would I go about making this happen? Also, I have a 2003 tiptronic trans and there may be a weird interference with pedal position, or maybe it doesn't affect anything... When I drive WOT I only push the pedal down until I feel the resistance on the throttle, Which if I press any further the transmission will shift down (even when in manual mode) and I can't get a good run in from a lower rpm. So maybe this affects throttle position even though it reads 100% when I log. I hope that wasn't too confusing...

Question #2: I am using us 93 premium oct and am still getting a ton of timing retard. I'm using the nefmoto stage1 timing map. I'm thinking it could have something to do with high IAT and I'm sure I am pushing my K03s close to or past its limits. Here is another question even though I bet it's related to the timing retard... My engine load is a lot lower than my requested engine load. I have a guess that the problem is in my KFMIRL and KFMIOP. I am including my most recent bin file and also my first log from today. I took 3 logs today but the results were all very similar. My car is stock with exception to EV14 550cc injectors and a custom intake filter/heat shield. Thanks for all the help so far and I can't wait to figure this out so I can move to stage 2 thread!

NOTE!!!!!!!! this bin file is a test and will cause stock fuel injectors to EXPLODE! :) made for EV14 550cc


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 10, 2016, 03:15:47 PM
9psi at 95% wgdc at readline is not a good sign...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 10, 2016, 03:21:52 PM
Would tapering ldrxn down earlier be a good solution for this problem?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 10, 2016, 03:38:44 PM
the included csv is the first log I've done with me7logger since the new injectors were installed. I suppose I found the k03 limit... I will adjust ldrxn accordingly. Any other areas of concern?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 10, 2016, 04:09:14 PM
Would tapering ldrxn down earlier be a good solution for this problem?

No IMO it indicates a hardware issue.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on October 10, 2016, 06:12:26 PM
9psi at 95% wgdc at readline is not a good sign...

lol

thats basically stock boost with 95% wg duty cycle... I agree thats a bit suspect... time to review, revise, reflash  ::)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 10, 2016, 07:01:03 PM
Something drastic is going wrong at 5200-5300 rpm in all three of my logs today. After a little thinking about it I have a suspicion it might be my air intake tube collapsing. I was trying to see if I could finagle it into a better position to reroute my intake through the hole where the SAI is after I removed it. I never finished the reroute, but I don't think I put the air intake tube back in the position it was originally. All my old logs I've done have a decent wgdc so I believe this could be the problem because I haven't done any other mods. Would this make sense? I'll fix and do another log tomorrow.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 10, 2016, 07:18:23 PM
I have a suspicion it might be my air intake tube collapsing.

Yep. Very common problem.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on October 10, 2016, 11:19:31 PM
I was trying to see if I could finagle it into a better position to reroute my intake through the hole where the SAI is after I removed it.

I always tell people there is no need to remove the SAI. In my personal opinion, the more little things you keep like that, the less issues you run into down the road. Both mechanically as well as emissions testing (If your required to pass testing in your area)... Anyways this is what I did:

(https://docs.google.com/uc?export=&id=0B1m5COB73xgEbVhsU0dBRWtRZ1E)

(https://docs.google.com/uc?export=&id=0B1m5COB73xgERGJMblB2ZUFmelE)

(https://docs.google.com/uc?export=&id=0B1m5COB73xgENnViMUlNY1RHYzg)

And K&N also makes those mini breather filters with a little shield covering half of the filter to better deflect heat from entering the filter on the side facing the engine. I followed the hose that runs to the stock airbox location and ran it back to where you can see I've placed the breather filter. The SAI hose is a lot stonger more towards the SAI and isnt flimsy and flexible as it is getting closer to the airbox. This allowed me to cut the hose off and pop the breather filters rubber inlet piece right inside the hose! :) The inlet was like a fraction of a fly turd too small to fit perfectly inside the SAI hose so I wrapped a little bit of electric tape around the rubber inlet piece until it was fitted and secured nice and tight inside the SAI hose. Works great! Ne need to delete SAI imo..   :-\


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 11, 2016, 12:15:52 PM
Just tried rotating my TIP to stock position (still using K&N filter on end of MAF). I took a few more logs with the same result as yesterday, and I still think the TIP is collapsing under boost. I'm going to reduce ldrxn a little and see if that helps for now until I find a replacement or a way of reinforcing the TIP.  ???

roycerollz,
I already have the SAI deleted and coded to pass emissions and I think I have a good place to get it done that won't care. However, I did delete the N249 and EVAP and am regretting it. I'm going to keep SAI as it is, but will replace EVAP and N249 function along with the vacuum reservoirs original function. Keeping the SAI might be a good idea if you live in a cooler climate than I do for the cold morning startups. What kind of IAT do you run with your intake setup? FMIC? Very clean engine bay!  


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: golfputtputt on October 12, 2016, 12:12:12 PM
Quote
nyet:
It is nearly impossible. The lack of an airbox makes MAF readings very unpredictable and non linear.

Working with flowmeters at work, I've found consistency with baffling designs. Constructing a baffle box around the inlet with a 'V' 3" in front of the entrance mouth smoothed out swings down to +-5cfm from+-20 cfm. The qualm is the stock airbox is large and takes up room, perhaps there can be some compromise of flow, space savings and use of a pod filter.

Something along these lines  but larger and with less obstruction.

Anyone have any other ideas to make MAF readings smooth?

(http://i.imgur.com/OaNSi7O.png)

Just thinking out loud...

(http://i.imgur.com/u9Xaan7.png)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 12, 2016, 12:15:24 PM
Anyone have any other ideas to make MAF readings smooth?

Generally, the kind of people who ditch the stock airbox and replace them with "cold air intakes" have no idea what you are talking about :P


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 13, 2016, 02:31:20 PM
Some vehicles benefit from mortification to various stock parts, however the b6 1.8t airbox has an already very functional design from factory. Although I plan on experimenting a bit more with the air intake just because I like to experiment I doubt I'll see benefits other than removing a huge hunk of stuff from the engine bay.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: golfputtputt on October 15, 2016, 05:34:28 PM
Is there a smoothing map for MAF signal input?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 15, 2016, 05:36:46 PM
Is there a smoothing map for MAF signal input?

"smooth" is the wrong terminology. "Linear" and "deterministic" make more sense.

You can't fix bad MAF mechanicals by tweaking a map.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: golfputtputt on October 15, 2016, 07:31:11 PM
Thats what i meant, an averaging that the ecu can use to apply to other data interaction.

Still def important to have a nice even signal, even if there is a linearization table, agreed.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 15, 2016, 08:53:36 PM
Thats what i meant, an averaging that the ecu can use to apply to other data interaction.

Still def important to have a nice even signal, even if there is a linearization table, agreed.


Neither are related to the unsolvable problems introduced by not having an airbox


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Carsinc on October 16, 2016, 08:46:27 PM


Neither are related to the unsolvable problems introduced by not having an airbox

I would not say unsolvable, but tough sure. On the jetta/ golf there is room to have straight pipe in front
of Maf. There is awlays adding extra air straightener.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 16, 2016, 09:43:03 PM
I would not say unsolvable, but tough sure. On the jetta/ golf there is room to have straight pipe in front
of Maf. There is awlays adding extra air straightener.

by unsolvable i meant "restricted to map adjustment"


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 17, 2016, 12:27:30 AM
This might be a better solution for someone trying to get a little more flow from the stock air box.
http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/showthread.php/25665-DIY-Air-Box-Mods-for-B6 (http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/showthread.php/25665-DIY-Air-Box-Mods-for-B6)

I've been running a filter on my MAF with a large heat shield for a few months now and although I enjoy the extra space under the hood and the turbo sounds The IATs are too high to justify the setup. I was going to relocate the filter to where the SAI pump was located but then I would have to worry about water being sucked into the system when it rains. I do think the stock intake system is a little restrictive under increased power so this might be a decent solution. Not sure if all the vents/mesh is necessary though, could just drill some holes in the wheel well liner and call it a day if need be.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 22, 2016, 02:22:22 PM
I reflashed with the nef_stage1_tunedv7 file and did another log to see if it would put my wastegate duty cycle back in check and it did. I've been having an issue with engine load not meeting the requested load. I am testing on an tiptronic trans and have a guess as to why this is happening but I'm not 100%. Since I have the tiptronic if I push the pedal all the way to the floor it will automatically downshift and I'm unable to get a good run in from a lower rpm. What I've been doing is only pressing the pedal until I feel sort of a resistance in the pedal (90% depressed or so), if I press it anymore it downshifts. It will still downshift even if I have it in "manual mode". If I modify KFMIRL or possibly KFMIOP maybe I could get it to register full load at the 90% throttle position. Although, ecuxplot is showing that throttle posistion is 100%... I'm kinda stumped as to what is going on. And then again maybe it has nothing to do with this at all. Does anyone also have a tiptronic and have logs to go with it?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 22, 2016, 02:26:24 PM
Here are the files to go with it... I also have to do the logs in 2nd gear.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 22, 2016, 06:06:31 PM
One more time: the PID is not driven by load errror. Also, I have no idea why every noob thinks every problem is always IOP related.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 22, 2016, 09:41:36 PM
I was hoping for a little insight to what may be happening. No CELs or anything else to go by... I'm no expert yet when it comes to tuning and questions are my only way of figuring things out that I can't find answers to. I'm sure it's frustrating dealing with us noobs, but I'm sure someone on this forum will be wiling to help a novice that wants to learn. Anyone out there tune their tiptronic and have or have not had load issues? 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 23, 2016, 01:47:03 AM
Your load is fine. The only strange thing is lambda control is acting funny between 5700 and 6100 and again at 6300, causing some rich behavior.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 23, 2016, 10:23:33 AM
Out of about 6+ logs the lambda was only like that in the one csv I posted. I flashed the new file and pretty much immediately did the log, which I should have drove for a  little letting the fuel trims catch up. You can see the lack of STFT (lambda control) in those certain rich areas. Hopefully this was the cause. This is me just trying to be 100% sure but you said my "load is fine", should I not wonder why it's not meeting requested? I noticed that my MAX-Load in every log I've ever done has never been greater than about 84%.  I'm also getting about 6deg timing pull within every run. I'm not really looking for the answer as to why my logs are like this it's more of me trying to narrow possible causes down so I can diagnose. Thanks for the feedback! 


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 23, 2016, 06:29:20 PM
This is me just trying to be 100% sure but you said my "load is fine", should I not wonder why it's not meeting requested?

No, you really only care if the boost PID isn't working right or you get torque intervention

Quote
I'm also getting about 6deg timing pull within every run.

More fuel and/or less timing. This is the wrong place to teach you the basics, it is all covered in the thread already, or elsewhere.

This thread is bad enough as it is with 40+ pages


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: royce5950 on October 26, 2016, 06:20:30 AM
More fuel and/or less timing. This is the wrong place to teach you the basics, it is all covered in the thread already, or elsewhere.

This thread is bad enough as it is with 40+ pages

lol  ::)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 26, 2016, 10:48:27 PM
In my case I had to 0 out KFTLAFA in order to get my desired LAMFA to initiate in a timely matter and I now have a flat AFR. Timing is also in check with this change.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on October 26, 2016, 10:49:01 PM
0 is probably not a great value, you may want a bit of smoothing


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: cgramme on October 26, 2016, 11:01:32 PM
There seems to be a bit of smoothing via ZKLAMFAW with this setup. Going by the S4wiki many files already have a TLAFA value of 0, please correct me if I'm wrong.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 05, 2016, 05:21:30 AM
Hey All,
I've followed this thread for like a year now. Had a narrow band, found out I needed a wideband, looked for a wideband car, finally bought one.

Car is a Passat B5.5 4B0 906 018 DJ

Anyway, I've attached my first log. I think I may have taken this too slow. I think I should have changed LDRXN as well, because I just changed LAMFA. From the look of things, doesn't seem like my file has a time delay. But BTS is kicking in.

So questions:
- I'm not able to find maps, could someone be so kind to help me find TABGBTS
- Is my assesment that I don't have time delay correct, or does the log just start after said delay?
- I see timing retard, my suspicion is fuel. I'll try a higher octane fuel. No one around here says the fuel octane rating
- I have weird extra variables. It's like each variable has 2 values

I've attached the screenshot of the change I made (LAMFA), the log and the bin, in case someone can find TABGBTS. Other maps I'd love to have, KFTLAFA, ZKLAMFAW and VMAXNB.

Thanks!

Edit: I found the maps. Going to modify log, and post.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 07, 2016, 08:54:40 AM
Hey all,
- Changed LAMFA to look more like the table in this thread
- Increased LDRXN

Now:
- Fueling looks weird now.
- Boost isn't following LDRXN. Looks stock actually suspect it's KFMIOP/KFMIRL


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 07, 2016, 11:34:21 AM
- Boost isn't following LDRXN. Looks stock actually suspect it's KFMIOP/KFMIRL

No, IRL looks fine. IOP will limit timing, not boost request.

possibly HBN?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 07, 2016, 11:50:07 AM
No, IRL looks fine. IOP will limit timing, not boost request.

possibly HBN?

Actually i take that back. by 70% mrfa in IRL you should be requesting a lot more load


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 08, 2016, 12:32:40 PM
The log I've attached isn't good, but from what I see requested load is still following stock. I've modified IRL and IOP to match this current bin.

EDIT:
Intake air temperatures are high, ambient is like 23 C
I also have a vehicle speed sensor error. Hope that doesn't make the ECU behave different


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 08, 2016, 12:37:34 PM
Your misol still looks very low. Don't forget rlmax->IOP will limit mrfa that goes into KFMIRL


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 08, 2016, 01:01:19 PM
I don't quite follow, let's take 3000rpm.
LDRXN = 153

Through IOP, Extrapolating in the 3000 rpm column last 2 rows:
(77+99)/2 = 88 Torque % request to IRL

IRL: Between 160 and 183, so I'd think it's requesting enough load.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 08, 2016, 11:50:13 PM
On second thought, I think it's following LDRXNZK, because there is lots of knock happening. I'm using what I think is the best fuel available -- Shell V Power.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 09, 2016, 12:00:14 AM
mifa is CRAZY low though.

Any chance you can log mrfa?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 09, 2016, 01:33:21 AM
Alright, going to flash and log the attached values from BAM ECU. With mrfa logged


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 09, 2016, 01:39:12 AM
Hadn't copied over IRL.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 09, 2016, 09:01:53 AM
I logged twice today. I'll split into two posts for easy separation.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 09, 2016, 09:07:59 AM
I tried to log again, which I couldn't complete, but I saw the trend was the same so didn't try to get the full log. I made IOP aggressive (or so I thought)

Boost is still following stock. I suspect it's following LDRXNZK, but I don't want to change LDRXNZK, since it's a safety measure.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 09, 2016, 11:40:39 AM
Yea, I'd say IRL and IP look fine, the problem is definitely rlmax.

I don't get why it would be following LDRXNZK, you aren't seeing much ignition retard at all.

Not sure which file or mappack you are using, but is it possible you are modifying the wrong LDRXN? Many have more than one (not just also LDRXNZK)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 09, 2016, 11:50:09 AM
I'm using and xdf and kp I found here. I've attached.

Also, I'm seeing ignition retard of up to -6 degrees. Unless I'm reading the log. Most other logs on the forum have 0. That's why I thought there was knock and retard. If you say there is barely any, I'm going to modify LDRXNZK and test the theory.

I made the XDF based on the .kp. I found it on here somewhere.

I'll match LDRXN and LDRXNZK tomorrow and log.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 09, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
If you say there is barely any, I'm going to modify LDRXNZK and test the theory.

That seems entirely reasonable. You should be fine for testing.

That said, at those boost levels you shouldn't be seeing that much knock.. so at some point that does have to be addressed. You might want to add some fuel to be extra safe.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 09, 2016, 10:48:37 PM
Does more fuel equal to less knock? Because I can add first add fuel, before I change LDRXNZK. I thought it was quality of fuel, not quantity of fuel.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on November 09, 2016, 11:24:21 PM
richer cools the intake charge.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 12, 2016, 03:57:32 PM
It's following LDRXNZK.
I started with original and modified LAMFA, LDRXN, LDRXNZK. Didn't up TABGBTS, so BTS kicks in. But I can see the boost curve following LDRXNZK, and the knock seems to go higher. How can I tame knock? Do I need to retard timing from stock? Is there anything I can do with the hardware? I feel like I can't increase load at this point safely.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: ktm733 on November 13, 2016, 01:42:06 PM
It's following LDRXNZK.
I started with original and modified LAMFA, LDRXN, LDRXNZK. Didn't up TABGBTS, so BTS kicks in. But I can see the boost curve following LDRXNZK, and the knock seems to go higher. How can I tame knock? Do I need to retard timing from stock? Is there anything I can do with the hardware? I feel like I can't increase load at this point safely.

I could be wrong but if you're I countering knock at that low of boost you might have problems with your car.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: dokalanyi on November 13, 2016, 02:04:11 PM
I have no engine DTCs though -- so I was hoping it's because of the hot Intake temperatures.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: CQ1 on November 28, 2016, 07:33:48 AM
Great topic for learning purpose. Thank You all guys.

This may be a stupid question, but the load axis in KFZW and KFZW2 shouldn't be also changed/rescaled as in KFZWOP and KFZWOP2?

I'm trying to learn acording this and i see that in KFZW and KFZW2 load axis ends with 140. Is it right? KFZWOP and KFZWOP2 was rescaled to 191.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: mdz on January 07, 2017, 05:29:53 PM
Returning to my problem with engine randomly not revving to limit - could that be because of collapsing intake pipe? Mine was "seen its life" and I replaced it with better, way more stiffer than mine was and issue is now gone - I did multiple 2nd and 3rd gear runs, all of them topped out at limit. Sounds dumb and I know I need to be sure my engine is fine hardware wise before dealing with software, but in my case there was non-standard parts to begin with and intake pipe didn't look that bad to not use it.  ::)
Can't do any logs at the moment, because winter came and I have some traction issues, but car runs fine, I'm very happy with result and I've done some more hardware mods to it so I guess I can move to stage 2 thread now.  :)


Title: Re:
Post by: Tricky0 on March 07, 2017, 01:16:27 PM
Would these values work for the 06A906032GH ECU? I mean could I copy these values and then input them into my file? Or would this file work on my 1.8t ecu?

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: in_motion on May 24, 2017, 10:52:03 AM
Hi Everyone, can someone please check my 3rd gear WOT log on A4 B7 1.8t BFB K03s? It runs on LPG gas with 110oct.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nkady on October 22, 2017, 02:41:45 AM
This thread is for those who are looking to learn how to tune their own *stock* 1.8t engine. All modifications to the software are tested and worked out on stock hardware.

This is a community project; I started this thread to show a progression through the self-tuning process, helped along by the more experienced tuners on nefmoto. This will show my path in learing the basics (still learning everyday) as well as some of the obstacles you will be up against with the 1.8t.

The original (stock) .bin file and tunerpro definition file we are discussing are found below. The *latest* tuned file is also below. Please note that this tuned file for 94 octane gas, which may not be available depending on your location. If you use lesser octane fuel you will need to make changes to the fueling and timing maps. Any improvements or versions for different fuel etc are welcome.
 
Happy hunting

Hy, can i write the tuned 8E0909518AK file on my car? Audi A4 2003 1.8t quattro BFB with ecu 8E0909518AA. THX


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: jimmcgee5 on October 22, 2017, 01:40:40 PM
it worked with My Ecu , same as yours , I used MMPS and flashed it no problems , the only reason I done it was I could not find an XDF for the BFB , but there is one on the forum now if you want to use that .


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nkady on October 23, 2017, 02:00:43 AM
it worked with My Ecu , same as yours , I used MMPS and flashed it no problems , the only reason I done it was I could not find an XDF for the BFB , but there is one on the forum now if you want to use that .

i have to make immo off? or after flash the AK file the engine will start?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on April 24, 2018, 10:52:57 PM
I have a question. Since this is stage 1, would a catalytic delete be applicable to these boost pressures? If we would see better power from a cat delete, can we discuss coding out the rear 02 so that readiness is set without a cat?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Marty on April 25, 2018, 07:05:51 AM
I have a question. Since this is stage 1, would a catalytic delete be applicable to these boost pressures? If we would see better power from a cat delete, can we discuss coding out the rear 02 so that readiness is set without a cat?


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have you ever looked at the wiki or even tried to look into coding out the downstream before? its all documented this thread is about stage 1 calibrations for STOCK hardware. make a new thread if you still cant figure it out after a few hints...


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: overclockedpc on April 26, 2018, 12:56:04 AM
I did read the wiki and found the thread about coding it out. I just am confused about mapping out parameters in the bin.

You are right though, this is stage 1 with stock hardware. Sorry!


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Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: snuff on June 29, 2018, 01:40:53 PM
Hi everyone, I was logging my car and I noticed unusual "spikes" in the boost pressure .. In my point of view it happens because when I quit pushing gas and the throttle valve suddenly closes it it the pressure of air which is than let out through an blow-off valve.. Can someone confirm it is OK? Or do I have somehow faulty blow-off valve which doesn't respond as quickly as it should? Thanks.. (red line is desired boost and yellow actual.)


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: joshk326 on June 29, 2018, 02:06:50 PM
I have a 2003 b6 Audi A4 1.8t and if I were to flash this right on my ecu without making any changes for now would it work?


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Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on June 29, 2018, 02:28:33 PM
Hi everyone, I was logging my car and I noticed unusual "spikes" in the boost pressure .. In my point of view it happens because when I quit pushing gas and the throttle valve suddenly closes it it the pressure of air which is than let out through an blow-off valve.. Can someone confirm it is OK? Or do I have somehow faulty blow-off valve which doesn't respond as quickly as it should? Thanks.. (red line is desired boost and yellow actual.)

That does not look good. Definitely have them checked out.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: vwaudiguy on June 29, 2018, 08:38:04 PM
Hi everyone, I was logging my car and I noticed unusual "spikes" in the boost pressure .. In my point of view it happens because when I quit pushing gas and the throttle valve suddenly closes it it the pressure of air which is than let out through an blow-off valve.. Can someone confirm it is OK? Or do I have somehow faulty blow-off valve which doesn't respond as quickly as it should? Thanks.. (red line is desired boost and yellow actual.)

Can you post the log?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: snuff on June 29, 2018, 11:53:53 PM
thanks log are here..

I found out that on my car was modified software..LDRXN and LDRXNZK and KFBLTS were changed.. The log from 173615.csv is from that software.

After that I changed LDRXN and LDRXNZK to factory values (log 202134) and logged again.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: BlackT on March 12, 2019, 05:47:56 AM
On this stock ECU at first post the TABGBTS is 850, but as I can see older ECU-s  on passat ,TT etc. (starting index 4B0 or 06A) have TABGBTS 400-500. Why is it so?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: prj on March 13, 2019, 11:44:08 AM
On this stock ECU at first post the TABGBTS is 850, but as I can see older ECU-s  on passat ,TT etc. (starting index 4B0 or 06A) have TABGBTS 400-500. Why is it so?
Because they ran all the time on the BTS map.
As focus shifted away from engine/turbocharger longevity and more towards minimum consumption it was made so that the car runs lambda 1 all the time unless absolutely neccessary to enrich for component protection. This results in higher EGT's through the lifecycle of the engine, but less fuel consumption.

Apart from WOT where lambda was regulated to lean best torque (0.9) to get the best response, especially off-boost.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: BlackT on March 15, 2019, 12:34:47 AM
Thank you,
One more thing, B6 have different fuel sistem from B5.
Soo does B6 have some maps about fuels injection/and manifold pressure?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: 316LV on March 17, 2019, 08:58:04 AM
Thank you,
One more thing, B6 have different fuel sistem from B5.
Soo does B6 have some maps about fuels injection/and manifold pressure?

Yes. FRLFSDP.

See this thread: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=460.0


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: snuff on May 14, 2019, 11:36:20 PM
That does not look good. Definitely have them checked out.

Hi, after some time, these spikes were there because of DV was not functional.
Anyway thanks to this forum I managed to modify my AWT 1.8T without problems so thank you guys, a lot of amazing info is there.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: snuff on June 04, 2019, 09:18:55 AM
Hi, could please anyone check my log? I'm trying to calculate IDC (last row in attached document) and it looks like, my injectors are going on 98 percent of its capacity? Am am calculating it right please? Thanks..

I calculate it as IPW * RPM / 1200


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on June 04, 2019, 10:10:52 AM
Hi, could please anyone check my log? I'm trying to calculate IDC (last row in attached document) and it looks like, my injectors are going on 98 percent of its capacity? Am am calculating it right please? Thanks..

I calculate it as IPW * RPM / 1200

ECUxPlot will do this for you.



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on June 04, 2019, 10:12:19 AM
And your WGDC is maxed too.

Not good.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Blazius on June 04, 2019, 10:14:00 AM
Hi, could please anyone check my log? I'm trying to calculate IDC (last row in attached document) and it looks like, my injectors are going on 98 percent of its capacity? Am am calculating it right please? Thanks..

I calculate it as IPW * RPM / 1200

You dont need to calculate it , as EcuXplot knows ,you are running 100+ idc. AFR maxes at 10.7 , and your requested is still going below 10, even 9.9 gotta fix that + what nyet said.

Also whats wrong with the MAF reading off throttle , do you have surge or something ?


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: snuff on June 05, 2019, 01:44:35 AM
And your WGDC is maxed too.

Not good.

Yes I know, thank you. That is not map I am running on..It was done only for testing purposes..I need to use downpipe and I think my wgdc will be alright than.

MAF off the throttle was bacause of mailfuntional DV.
What I'm worried about is that my turbo lasts too long to spool until desired boost pressure. It can reach desired boost only in around 3500 rpm... Too late. :/


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: nyet on June 05, 2019, 03:51:40 PM
MAF off the throttle is because somebody deleted N249 valve.

Put it back in.

Quote
What I'm worried about is that my turbo lasts too long to spool until desired boost pressure. It can reach desired boost only in around 3500 rpm... Too late. :/

It does seem a bit slow. Perhaps you have an intake restriction? It is common to have inlet hoses collapse.


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: Blazius on June 05, 2019, 04:53:16 PM
Put it back in.

It does seem a bit slow. Perhaps you have an intake restriction? It is common to have inlet hoses collapse.

Hmm I wonder if I could use my n249 for dv purposes ? Its used for intake tract changeover by default, what do you think ? its a 3am idea dont bash me :D

like telling it to open at x rpm and 0% pedal but then again I dont know the axes in na soft .


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: aef on October 21, 2019, 12:20:03 AM
Can anyone who owns a BEX/BFB/ANB tell me if these small k03 longitudinal tend to glow in stock and stage1 condition?



Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: soul87 on October 21, 2019, 01:11:07 AM
Yep, especially if the kat is there :) but should only glow after spirited runs


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: tristo3pm on May 21, 2020, 08:47:47 AM
So I've been following everything for about a week. I've tried doing things on my own (got tuner pro, been digging for XDF files, etc...) but I'm hitting a wall. I didn't wanna give in and use the community BIN. That being said, I have an 8E0909518AF ECU with 0002 software. I don't wanna flash your bin, but i did want to pull it and use beyond compare and move some things over and test it out. Are there any major differences between software versions 0002 and 0003? Thanks again for the great work everyone. This is all really cool stuff, and something I've been interested in for a very long time!


Title: Re: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)
Post by: tristo3pm on May 21, 2020, 03:32:26 PM
Well, looks like other people have changed SW versions without much issue, and if I can't drive the car, I've got a working stock tune to flash back to, so here goes nothing! So I was looking over the community bin and noticed that PSI peaks around 14psi, then tapers back down to 7ish. This is because we're getting pretty high in IDC. There are tuners out there selling "Stg1 tunes" that are making 18psi and claiming like 30-40hp over stock. I wanna dig into this, because I wonder if they're dialing back timing to prevent detonation to run a bit leaner than we may consider safe, or if there are other values we can look into as far as fueling is concerned (and I'm about page 20 of the thread, and maybe I'll get flamed for this, idk) but I'm also wondering if anyone has an off the shelf tune that they can log for us, so we can see what kind of results the big guys are seeing as far as boost taper, peak boost, timing retard and injector IDC. I hope this wakes this thread back up because it's VERY exciting!!! Cheers!