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Author Topic: 2013 B8.5 A4 MAF Issues or Something Else?  (Read 1998 times)
rob.mwpropane
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« on: March 05, 2024, 05:11:14 AM »

Good day all. It's been many years since I've been on here. I can remember staying up until my brain felt like it was going to explode looking at hexadecimal, trying to define my MY 2001. Good to see the site still going strong. I wish I could devote more time to this but life got really busy. Kids only grow up once and I had to choose between between being a dad or obsessing over this. I don't have any regrets.

My wife drives a 2013 A4. It's almost fully stock except for an APR tune (that was on the car when she bought it) and an exhaust. It's not our only car and wasn't driven a lot until recently when she got a new job. Few years ago car stuttered a little and threw a code for the MAF, I guess that's tied to the TPMS and the ETC because those lights come on as well. I've been intermittently trying to fix it ever since. The car feels fine up until the hesitation and code get thrown. Leading up to an event the fuel trims go negative, which to me would mean something is leaking fuel? I have changed the HPFP (twice), the MAF (3 times), and the injectors (once). I have run a heat soak test to watch the pressure build up in the rail with the car off. I don't see any leaks (although at one point I did have a leaky HPFP). Request is 4 MPa and actual climbed to 7900 kPa before I finally ended it. Took ~ 15 min but the car wasn't ran hard before I did the test, so maybe it took longer because it wasn't super hot? Was also pretty chilly last night. Not sure if that has an effect. When I had a leaky HPFP I could smell fuel in the crank, that smell is all but gone now.

Here's the kicker, if I unplug the MAF car runs fine (but with a CEL for the MAF, the TPMS, and the ETC light obviously). I've attached logs of fuel trims, log of fuel rail pressure buildup after car turned off, and a full scan of the car after an incident. I was driving to work today and thinking maybe I should log fuel trims with the MAF unplugged? I haven't done that yet.

I am getting stumped here.

If anyone has any theories I'm all ears. I'm not 100% dumb when it comes to this stuff, but I'm not anywhere near as blessed with the knowledge or experience some of you have. I've cross posted on Ross Tech and Audizine under the same name just trying to get to the bottom of this.

 


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prj
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2024, 05:12:46 AM »

Pressure test the car instead of replacing shit over and over again. Everything starting from the turbo. Do not disconnect intake from manifold etc.

Codes point to a boost leak.
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2024, 06:21:25 AM »

Pressure test the car instead of replacing shit over and over again. Everything starting from the turbo. Do not disconnect intake from manifold etc.

Codes point to a boost leak.

I didn't really want to just replace parts. It's been cumulative over years of trying to figure this out, but I understand. I just kept 2nd guessing and starting over again.

A smoke test (at my buddies shop he has a machine) work just fine? Or maybe it should see some type of pressure?

Appreciate your response. I'd really like to get to the bottom of this.
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prj
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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2024, 08:44:55 AM »

Take the inlet pipe off the turbo, attach pressure tester to the turbo inlet and pressurize to 0.5 bar or so. Do not disconnect or block the manifold or do anything else.
You should hear where it leaks. Do not exceed 1 bar, because the turbo oil seals and backplate seal will probably start leaking at that point, so not very useful. You can of course take the hose off the turbo outlet and pressurize from there (and then you can go as high as your boost level), but usually that's a PITA to access compared to just doing it through the turbo inlet.
Do not try to pressurize the OEM intake pipe.

Smoke test is useful for finding vac leaks on N/A cars, turbo cars should always be pressure tested.
You can use a smoke machine of course, but you still need to put pressure in it, some leaks don't show up until pressurized.

This is the first thing you do on every single turbocharged car when you get any kind of too lean/too rich or MAF code.
Not replacing random shit...

Here's an example of a pressure test kit:
https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637205069/turbo-system-leakage-tester

But if you know the diameter you can easily do it for less than $5 yourself by buying a sewer pipe end cap and a tyre valve. Drill a hole in the end, pop the valve in and then just get a 90 degree or straight silicone coupler to attach it to the inlet (which you will need anyway with the kit).
Recommend unscrewing and removing the actual valve from inside the tyre valve though, so you can reliably see the pressure.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 08:56:31 AM by prj » Logged

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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2024, 09:52:42 AM »

Take the inlet pipe off the turbo, attach pressure tester to the turbo inlet and pressurize to 0.5 bar or so. Do not disconnect or block the manifold or do anything else.
You should hear where it leaks. Do not exceed 1 bar, because the turbo oil seals and backplate seal will probably start leaking at that point, so not very useful. You can of course take the hose off the turbo outlet and pressurize from there (and then you can go as high as your boost level), but usually that's a PITA to access compared to just doing it through the turbo inlet.
Do not try to pressurize the OEM intake pipe.

Smoke test is useful for finding vac leaks on N/A cars, turbo cars should always be pressure tested.
You can use a smoke machine of course, but you still need to put pressure in it, some leaks don't show up until pressurized.

This is the first thing you do on every single turbocharged car when you get any kind of too lean/too rich or MAF code.
Not replacing random shit...

Here's an example of a pressure test kit:
https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637205069/turbo-system-leakage-tester

But if you know the diameter you can easily do it for less than $5 yourself by buying a sewer pipe end cap and a tyre valve. Drill a hole in the end, pop the valve in and then just get a 90 degree or straight silicone coupler to attach it to the inlet (which you will need anyway with the kit).
Recommend unscrewing and removing the actual valve from inside the tyre valve though, so you can reliably see the pressure.

Sir I appreciate you taking the time to write that all out. Was scouring the internet for some type of pressure to stay below couldn't find it. I'll keep it .5 bar. Do I need to remove the oil cap when doing this? I know you said "Do not disconnect or block the manifold or do anything else", but I see that in some videos, but maybe they're exceeding 1 bar?



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prj
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2024, 10:32:36 AM »

Since the intake before the turbo will be open to the atmosphere then there will already be an open PCV connection from where anything that leaks from the turbo into the crankcase can vent.
Opening the cap will make 0 difference, but you can do it if it makes you feel better lol. Never done it once though.

I know you said "Do not disconnect or block the manifold or do anything else", but I see that in some videos, but maybe they're exceeding 1 bar?
No, they don't know what the fuck they are doing, that's all.

The manifold sees all the pressure from the turbo, why the hell would you disconnect it and not test all the little things connected to the manifold?
Hint: that's where the leak is in at least half the cases.

The only reason to keep it at around 0.5 bar is because you're pressurizing the turbo inlet. If you want to go higher just remove the turbo outlet hose and pressurize from there instead.
But for that you might have to get the car on a lift and remove the bottom engine cover , it might not be accessible easily from up top. I see no point unless you just built a stage3+ project car with full intake and want to do the initial high pressure test before running it, testing it to a higher pressure than it will be running.

Consider the fact that there is over a decade of experience behind these words doing it professionally.
Something random guys doing videos on internet don't have Wink
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 10:39:06 AM by prj » Logged

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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2024, 11:34:05 AM »

Since the intake before the turbo will be open to the atmosphere then there will already be an open PCV connection from where anything that leaks from the turbo into the crankcase can vent.
Opening the cap will make 0 difference, but you can do it if it makes you feel better lol. Never done it once though.
No, they don't know what the fuck they are doing, that's all.

The manifold sees all the pressure from the turbo, why the hell would you disconnect it and not test all the little things connected to the manifold?
Hint: that's where the leak is in at least half the cases.

The only reason to keep it at around 0.5 bar is because you're pressurizing the turbo inlet. If you want to go higher just remove the turbo outlet hose and pressurize from there instead.
But for that you might have to get the car on a lift and remove the bottom engine cover , it might not be accessible easily from up top. I see no point unless you just built a stage3+ project car with full intake and want to do the initial high pressure test before running it, testing it to a higher pressure than it will be running.

Consider the fact that there is over a decade of experience behind these words doing it professionally.
Something random guys doing videos on internet don't have Wink

I believe you! I just wanted to clarify. I am trying to wrap my head around it all before I act. I understand why to keep the pressure lower. I agree 100%. I can watch / read 100 things across the internet but it doesn't hold a candle to real world experience.

Too many idiots out there making too many videos. It's getting harder to sift through the trash.

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