DCUpro
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2014, 03:28:01 AM »
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Thank you BDK for your response.
I think thats the issue I'm having at the moment. Most people assume that its the same as the older cars where you just get the pins and match them up. So they tell me they can do it and then realize they can't. So kinda looking for someone who has maybe has avdi at the moment and familiar with the process.
I have read through the AVDI manual myself but its not really clear on the process and there seems to be a few different ways of doing things. I also seen a video on youtube from abrites that showed a cluster change on a 2010 audi a4 (need to bring this back to virgin state which requires another license) and its process wasn't even in the manual.
Does the person you know with avdi have a clone or genuine tool?
To the best of my knowledge it is genuine.
Do you know the manufacturer of your cluster? It may be possible to determine the manufacturer from the advanced id info using vcds.
The manufacturer is VDO. Part number 8P0 920 982 J. Date on cluster is 29/07/09. Car is late 2008 though. I'm unsure if the cluster is NEC or Micronas but the manaul says that cars after 2009 maybe NEC. So if I was to guess, I would say Micronas.
Does your car have kessy?
No my car hasn't got this.
Do you know if the cluster uses uds protocol or the older can protocol?
I'm not sure. How would I verify this?
If it is can does adaptation channel 50 show "security access required" or "channel not available"
Will also have to check this.
Is your ecm edc16 or edc17?
Its a edc16u34 to the best of my knowledge
I'll see if I can get the data that I'm missing and come back to you. I don't have the car at the moment as its at the place that has the avdi. I don't really know the guy so I'm not sure he'll give me the freedom of the software to figure it out myself but if I had a clearer indication of the process then I could maybe instruct the guy what to do is my thinking.
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BDK
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2014, 05:54:58 PM »
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Have you ruled out just disabling the immobilizer? Seems like the easiest way by far, you probably will end up living with some warning lights though.
Do you know what faults are stored in the cluster? That would help to see if component protection is activated. I was assuming you just needed to match the cluster but you may need to do even more after I think about this more.
If your cluster uses the uds protocol it won't have the regular numbered measured value blocks. Those have a description that comes up with vcds. If I remember right vcds displays the protocol used in the upper left hand corner at least it does with k wire cars. The older can (and k wire) protocol uses numbers to access the value block you want. If you have numbered value blocks and adaptation channel 50 shows "security access required" it's possible you could adapt it once you determine the pin but I doubt it will be that easy.
Regardless, step one will be to read the ecm eeprom, save the file, record the cs (component security) and mac values. Hopefully you have all 7 cs values. If you only have 6 its going to be harder again. If I remember correctly edc16 usually contains all 7, at least around here.
If they try the key learning function with wizard mode avdi should autodetect the car and hopefully confirm your car does have the cluster you think. Late vdo clusters are the ones that require modification to the eeprom to read and enter service mode. Service mode will allow you to read and update immo data. It looks like avdi asks you to load a dump which it modifies and then you can load back to the eeprom with a programmer. After that you can reinstall the cluster and read via obd. This is where you will find the pin from the new cluster. Again it's possible you could adapt the cluster by using the 2 pins but I doubt it. From there you I would update the cluster with vin, pin, cs and mac using the values from the ecm. As for the configuration and status fields I'm not really familar with those. I believe the configuration data is at least partially related to the keys from something I read before but I can't seem to find that now. It appears avdi handles checksums as needed.
It's unclear to me from the avdi manual if your car will simply use a pin to program the keys or if you need to use the avdi programmer. If it's the programmer (non pin method) you will need to do that before exiting service mode.
If the avdi is genuine they can contact support. My experience with support is hit or miss but that may be your best bet.If your paying someone to do this I wouldn't expect it to be cheap. There will probably be a signifigant time investment, The new cluster from Audi may be more reasonable than you think. There is no guarantee this will get you where you need to be but it is how I would start. Do you have the original keys or are they new as well?
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DCUpro
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2014, 12:57:42 PM »
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One of the first things we did was disable the immo but the car only starts in safe mode. So a lot of warning lights and some electrics not working. I think component protection is activated as it seems to block avdi from doing other functions. We tried altering the mileage by 2 miles to see if it would work and we got a immo activated error.
I have the original keys to the car so they should already match whats in the eeprom. Unfortunately we just don't seem to be able to match the cluster with the eeprom. The guy who has the avdi doesn't have the license for component protection either, so not able to disable it.
He has requested for me to get him another cluster now and the key from the car of which the cluster came off. I'm not really sure why but I thing he reckons that he could disable component protection if he had the key of the cluster. I have my doubts about this but I'm trying to keep the faith.
The audi dealership would be in excess of 1200 euro for this job so it really would be end of the line for me.
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2014, 01:33:12 PM »
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Sorry to say that but it looks like you did not make any good deal buying car in such a mess.
IMHO getting cluster (preferably not newer then 2008) and matching key/transpoder might be an option as this should let you adapt ECU to it. If not you will have to take dealership way or make a parts car of it.
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DCUpro
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2014, 05:59:52 AM »
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I've sorced a 2008 1.9tdi being broke at the moment and I seem to be able to pick up parts of it for very reasonable money. Only concerns I have is that it's a bxe engine and mines a bls. It's cluster is also in kph and mine is in mph. Does anyone know if this will make a difference? I'd prefer to nearly change ecu, cluster, transponder etc off another car to mine rather than give it to Audi. Can anyone provide any insight?
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2014, 06:47:54 AM »
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Use all parts from the second car to start your car, find a reputable diesel tuner and ask him to readout both ECUs using BDM and implement EEPROM data from donor car into your original dump and use it in ECU of your choice.
You can also try to use cluster and transponder from donor car and your ECU but only if you can readout PIN from donor car - it might be wiser to try it before removing all those parts from it.
EDIT: You can try to make donor cluster read in mph but then you will have to reflash it with different dump...
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DCUpro
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« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2014, 07:55:34 AM »
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Yea well my original plan was to try and match the cluster of the donar car with the transponder. I think part of the issue with the old cluster is component protection is enabled and this stops avdi from changing the pin. Kinda hoping that this wont happen if you have the transponder. If this fails, I was then thinking of using the donar cars ecu but not sure if it will work because of the different engine codes. I'm fine with the clocks being in mph as I'm in Ireland and that's what our national speeds are in. The car was a uk import. I was just concerned would the difference cause an issue with comparability between the ecu and cluster?
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2014, 08:02:40 AM »
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You can run even petrol cluster if you want - it does not matter as long as it supports same immobilizer protocol as ECU uses.
For example I am running Golf IV R32 IMMO3 cluster in Golf IV TDI with IMMO2 ECU...
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