benhart16
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« on: December 14, 2015, 07:17:45 PM »
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Greetings,
I have an early 2000 model Jetta TDI, (IMMO 2) and I lost the key to the car during an extended repair. My plan was to just disable the IMMO and be done with it. I purchased a blue KKL cable with the FTDI chip and downloaded Vag Commander 2.5. I was able to get everything working without much effort (I have an old laptop running win xp). I was able to read the ECU eeprom as well as the instrument cluster and I saved the original files. I then selected the "IMMO Off" button, and wrote the modified file back to the ECU. This did NOT fix the IMMO, as the light on the dash still flashed. I was able to see the SKC, so I bought a new key with a chip, and decided I would just try and program the new key. I was able to match the key with both Vag Commander and Vag Com 409.1, and the IMMO light on the cluster goes off. HOWEVER, the ECU still cuts fuel to the engine after about 3-4 seconds after the key is turned on. I can hear the click in the pump, and watch the voltage go from 12 to 0 volts at the fuel cutoff solenoid.
I was going to write the original files back (just to be sure), and try to match the key again, but the hard drive in my laptop failed. I was able to get my laptop all back up and running with a new hd, but have yet to pull the original files off the old hard drive (the adapter is on it's way). I did change some of the values in the cluster file, but was able to change them back; I believe the current cluster file is unaltered. The "IMMO Off" button in vag commander changes several values, so I don't think it's exactly the same as the original, even after I select the "IMMO ON" button.
I plan to recover the original files tomorrow and give that a go, but I'm not particularly certain that will solve my problem. Do I have to update the checksum on the IMMO eeprom/and or cluster as well? Any help will be greatly appreciated. I have the following tools:
1. Vag Commander 2.5 (blue KKL cable)
2. Vag Com, full 409.1 version
3. MPPS 13.02 (haven't used this yet)
I really need to get this thing going.
Thanks in advance.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2015, 07:49:13 PM »
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turn immo back on on ecu.
instruments > adaption > ch1 > read > save. close all windows. key off for 2 minutes.
btw, all of this info can be found on the ross-tech.com. why would you defeat the immo on immo2 when it takes 10 seconds to properly adapt it?
btw, if the cluster detects an unmatched key, it will flash the light no matter of whether ecu immo is on or off.
if the key was the ONLY problem originally, all you had to do was adapt the key and be done.
also, immo shut off is 2 seconds. you really need to check the codes in ecu and cluster for further information. if its immo, it'll have an immo code stored.
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 07:52:03 PM by k0mpresd »
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benhart16
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2015, 07:57:48 PM »
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I've tried the steps to match the ecu back to the cluster from the ross-tech website (ch0), but I'll try channel 1 too. Good point, I should have just tried to reprogram the new key to begin with. I'll read the codes in the morning and post what I find.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2015, 10:00:22 PM »
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it is ch0. typo.  immo must be on to adapt properly. it seems youve gone about it in a circle. start over clean. turn immo on, adapt ecu if not adapted, adapt key. |
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benhart16
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2015, 05:25:10 AM »
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I just went through the sequence again just to triple check:
1. Opened Vag Commander, read the ECU eeprom data, selected "Immo On" button, wrote file back to ecu eeprom.
2. Opened Vag Com 409.1, instruments>adaptations>logged in with SKC>ch0>read>save
3. Still in Vag Com, Instruments>adaptations> ch21>test>then saved. Immo light comes on then goes off. Pull key out for 30 sec.
4. Try to start car. Same result.
5. Read Fault codes on engine:
a. 17978-Engine start blocked by Immobilizer.
b. 16764-Glow plug/heater circuit malfunction.
6. Cleared codes, tried to start engine again. (no luck)
7. Read codes again. Only the Glow plug code came back.
It seems to me that at least part of the system thinks the IMMO is off, but something keeps cutting the voltage to both the fuel cutoff solenoid and the plunger in the pump after 5-6 seconds. (I recorded a video to measure the time). I've tried the above procedure several times yesterday, even before I made my first post. When I get another person crank the car, I can read the voltage on the pump and see it come on then go off on the fuel cutoff solenoid. My adapter for my old hard drive will arrive today, and I'll try and load the original files back and see where that gets me. Any other thoughts or ideas are most welcome.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2015, 06:58:38 AM »
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you need to read the rosstech procedures as yours are not correct.
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benhart16
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2015, 07:36:20 PM »
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Ok, quadruple checked, went to adaptations>21>entered 0>saved>then entered 1>then saved then exited the program.
Waited about 5 seconds, then turned car off.
Waited another 30 seconds, inserted key in car, still cuts fuel after apx 5 seconds. Tried to start, no luck.
I've tried about every possible way I can think of to make sure I'm doing it correctly, but no luck.
I got the adapter to read the old hd from my laptop with the original ECU and cluster files, but it's totally dead. I did manage to put the ECU file on my flash drive before the crash, but not the cluster file. I don't think the cluster file is changed from the original though.
I'll try again in the morning, but I'm about ready to buy a matched ECU and Cluster from a junkyard and give that a go. Again, any help is most appreciated.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 07:56:46 PM »
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i have no idea what youre doing.
adapt ecu: instruments > adaptions > ch0 > test > save > close.
adapt key: instruments > log in > enter pin > close > adaptions > ch21 > read > enter # of keys > save > done.
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benhart16
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2015, 08:04:11 PM »
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Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Except it says to enter 0 for the number of keys first to clear the system.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2015, 09:30:11 PM »
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no it doesnt. [Login - 11]
4-digit PIN
Enter zero followed by the 4-digit PIN. For example, if your PIN is 1234, enter 01234.
[Do it!]
[Adaptation - 10]
Enter 21 in "Channel Number".
[Read]
The "Stored Value" is the number of keys currently matched.
Enter a "new value" corresponding to the total number of keys to be matched, including any existing keys.
Any old keys are automatically being cleared. All keys, including existing keys, must be matched at the same time.
[Save]
[Done, Go Back]
[Close Controller, Go Back - 06]
Repeat the following steps until all Keys have been matched:
Switch Ignition OFF and remove Key.
Insert the next Key and switch Ignition ON.
The Immobilizer Warning Light will light up for ~2 seconds, wait until it goes out, indicating that the key has been matched.
Note: The above steps must be completed within 60 seconds after saving the Adaptation! each time youve typed your steps theres been a missing or extra step. ecu matching: [Select]
[17 - Instruments]
[Adaption - 10]
Leave channel at "00"
[Read]
[Save]
[Done, Go Back]
[Close Controller, Go Back - 06]
[Exit]
Turn ignition OFF for 15 seconds. Start vehicle. check immo status on ecu: engine > adaptions > channel 91. 1 = immo off, 4 = immo adapted. |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 09:34:15 PM by k0mpresd »
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benhart16
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2015, 08:27:22 AM »
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I guess there are two sets of instructions on the Ross-Tech website: [Select] [17 - Instruments] [Login - 11] Enter zero followed by the 4-digit SKC. For example, if your SKC is 1234, enter 01234. [Do It!] [Adaptation - 10] Enter 21 in "Channel Number" [Read] The "Stored Value" is the number of keys currently matched. Enter "new value" of 0 [Test] [Save] This clears out the old key-matchings. Enter a "new value" corresponding to the total number of keys to be matched, including any existing keys [Test] [Save] [Done, Go Back] [Close Controller, Go Back - 06] Switch ignition off and remove key http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/key-matching-4digit.htmlI did another round of checks, and still the same results. I wrote the original ECU eeprom file back (no changes at all, so the IMMO is active), I made sure the mileage on the instrument cluster matched the original ECU (I made minor changes to the cluster mileage to see if it would work), I reprogrammed the key using both methods (clearing the keys out and not), and matched the ECU to the cluster (I tried matching the ECU before and after adapting the key on multiple tries, including closing the program and turning the car off between operations and no difference.) Anyway, everything points to the immobilizer working properly: The light goes off on the dash, there is no immobilizer fault codes for the engine, and the 91 adaptation value is 4. The question in my mind now is what would cause the ECU to cut the fuel? Any thoughts? |
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benhart16
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 09:43:30 AM »
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So, I may have found the problem. Did a little more reading, and the ECU will cut fuel after 5 seconds or so if the engine is not turning over. It will also do this even if the engine is turning, but at too slow of a speed. This prevents the engine from hydrolocking on fuel. If the engine starts turning fast enough, the ECU will then call for fuel even though it previously cut it off in the above scenario. I checked to see if this was true on my car, and the ECU does resume power to the pump during cranking, even if we turned the key on and waited ~5sec to crank until power was cut to the pump. I pulled the top cover off the pump to verify the pump was moving the fuel quantity actuator to the start position, and it was working as expect.
BTW, does anyone know how to read this value in VAG-COM so I don't have to spill diesel everywhere by taking the pump cover off?
So, I think the reason why the engine isn't running is the injector tips have clogged. This would explain why the engine started when I first tried, and then shutoff about 5 seconds later. This is despite my best efforts of taking the injectors apart to clean everything prior to installation. I'm going to pop test the injectors and go from there. The other option is the fuel plunger in the pump has corroded, and isn't building up enough pressure. But as near as I can tell now, the ECU is working as expected.
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