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prj
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« on: May 08, 2012, 01:07:05 AM »
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I had the wrong chip in my RS4 ECU (29F800TA, not 29F800BB), so I made a video of removing it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHqotibc7k&hd=1Maybe useful for someone. Chipquik SMD-1 is safer than hot air as well. |
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 01:09:34 AM by prj »
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pvl
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 07:04:11 AM »
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Great vid !
Good solution when people don't own a hot-air rework-station.
Emm, how can this be safer than hot-air ? If using a proper PSOP44 nozzle, the air is very focussed
on the legs of the chip only... and it's really very quickly desoldered with hot-air i find...
Cheers,
PvL
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 05:33:29 PM »
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i always use hot air to remove the psop. never a problem.  |
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prj
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2012, 09:18:03 AM »
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Emm, how can this be safer than hot-air ? If using a proper PSOP44 nozzle, the air is very focussed
on the legs of the chip only... and it's really very quickly desoldered with hot-air i find... Hot air still heats the board more. For example if you have SMD soldered on other side, hot air can be risky. On some boards I have found that there are things in the way (some crazy boards with 90 degree boards stuck to them with components on them). The main advantage for me of using hot air, is that it is easier to clean everything. But really, I can't justify buying a hot air station with all the nozzles for it. That chip took longer than usual to remove, because it was glued to the board, I don't find it much slower otherwise. Even with hot air, if it is glued, you are never sure, if you have melted all the solder and are pulling on the glue, or if you are pulling on one of the feet and lifting a trace. Most important is never to apply force. Either way, chipquik works out at about 1 eur per chip and is universal. Unless you do a LOT of boards, then buying a hot air tool with all the nozzles works out to a lot more. I actually have zero desire of buying a hot air station - I don't see any situations where it will make my life significantly easier. I do all the SOIC-8 chips like this as well. Of course, before, there was no chipquik, and I had to use hot air, but I don't want to go back to that. |
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 09:26:02 AM by prj »
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2012, 09:24:44 AM »
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I don't see how any situations where it will make my life significantly easier. I do all the SOIC-8 chips like this as well. i used to lay solder across 4 legs and hold the iron to it. on me7 ecus this works ok but the 95040 is still glued underneath and i would have to pry with an xacto or something similar to raise the one side of the chip off the board then do the same with the other side until it was finally off. then i would have to clean the board with wick because it had solder all over it. with hot air i just hold the nozzle over the chip and pull the chip off with tweezers. to reapply i flux the board, lay the chip on, and heat it all up. it is 100* easier with hot air. but each person has their own opinion and their own technique. |
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 04:05:39 AM »
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Hey guys, I've been getting pretty good at SMD the last few months, so my boss has decided to put my skills to work. I had to remove the mother board on a graphics machine. It has to be what looks like slight water damage. I tried to see if I could remove the chip and rework the board but no dice, its glued pretty good. Any suggestions?
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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prj
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 04:39:44 PM »
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i used to lay solder across 4 legs and hold the iron to it. on me7 ecus this works ok but the 95040 is still glued underneath and i would have to pry with an xacto or something similar to raise the one side of the chip off the board then do the same with the other side until it was finally off. then i would have to clean the board with wick because it had solder all over it. with hot air i just hold the nozzle over the chip and pull the chip off with tweezers. to reapply i flux the board, lay the chip on, and heat it all up. it is 100* easier with hot air. but each person has their own opinion and their own technique. Please note that I am not using normal solder, I am using Chipquik. If you don't know what it is, then google it. Cleaning is really easy actually. Turn the board upside down and collect everything to a blob, after which it will just stay on your iron. Usually no need for wick. Also I had recently to remove a SOIC-8 from a board like this:  How are you going to attack that with hot air? |
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« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 04:42:52 PM by prj »
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 06:06:11 PM »
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So what do you do when the chip has pins on all sides and is glued?
Chipquick is great stuff btw, although I'll admit I've never had the luxury of using hot air. Thanks in advance
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 12:17:59 AM »
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Please note that I am not using normal solder, I am using Chipquik. If you don't know what it is, then google it. Cleaning is really easy actually. Turn the board upside down and collect everything to a blob, after which it will just stay on your iron. Usually no need for wick. Also I had recently to remove a SOIC-8 from a board like this: How are you going to attack that with hot air? im really not quite sure what youre going for here? are you trying to say that im incapable of using a soldering iron because i choose to use hot air? i know what chipquik is. never used, never felt the need to use it. you can turn the ecu upside down all you want but you will never get all the solder off the pads that way. you must use a wick to actually clean them and have them ready for fresh solder. not to knock what youre saying at all, because i did it that way for years. it does work and its not really a problem. but how are you going to do this with chipquik? original:  cleaned and new chip ready:  reattached:  or maybe this, infrared for this one:  |
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prj
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2012, 06:27:38 AM »
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im really not quite sure what youre going for here? are you trying to say that im incapable of using a soldering iron because i choose to use hot air?
i know what chipquik is. never used, never felt the need to use it.
you can turn the ecu upside down all you want but you will never get all the solder off the pads that way. you must use a wick to actually clean them and have them ready for fresh solder.
not to knock what youre saying at all, because i did it that way for years. it does work and its not really a problem.
but how are you going to do this with chipquik? There are cases for using both tools. Just as I showed you that 90 degree board where you can't use hot air, you showed stuff like PGA type chips. What I am saying is, if you only used normal solder, and never used chipquik, you can't comment on how to clean this or that with it. It flows quite different from normal solder. It also remains liquid for a really long time, so SOIC8 is basically about making two passes with the iron. I don't do electronic re-flow work for a living, I tune cars as a hobby. And even if I did it full time, it is actually not very often that you have to go and desolder SMD components. This is because on most boards that actually use SMD components, and SMD memory that memory is writeable over OBD. For me a hot air station with all the nozzles is a giant waste of money, I would use it once in a blue moon, and I can't justify the cost, it would not pay for itself. If you are doing stuff like removing entire MCU's, FPGA's, etc, then obviously you need it. But in the chiptuning business the majority of money comes from Stage 1 flashes. Almost any time you have to pick up the soldering iron you are basically losing money. Of course you seem to be fond of XBOX firmware flashing and RROD repairs - in that case, a hot air station is very useful |
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« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 06:30:46 AM by prj »
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2012, 07:15:30 AM »
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fair enough. im used to soldering smd on a daily basis. i have tools that work well for me, you have tools that work well for you. 2 different points of view i guess. |
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prj
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2012, 08:13:59 AM »
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fair enough. im used to soldering smd on a daily basis. i have tools that work well for me, you have tools that work well for you. 2 different points of view i guess. You forgot that you were supposed to be at least mildly impressed by the fact that I recognized a xbox slim drive controller and a mobo :p I actually didn't google, but I've taken mine apart at some point in it's life, and I still remember the glued in processor on the board There is one more advantage for using chipquik that I forgot to state - portability. I tend to fly around Europe and tune cars in my spare time. Lugging a hot air station with me is not an option at all. For me it would probably best to have both, but as I said before, for the things I do, it's not worth the expense, and I don't want some crappy chinese unit. |
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2012, 09:24:04 AM »
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 i have a cheap ebay xtronic hot air station. its been going strong for over a year. i use it for any smd or smaller soldering so it gets a workout. anything larger i have to use a different iron with a higher wattage.
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Rsibiza
Newbie
Karma: +2/-0
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Posts: 15
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2012, 09:01:07 PM »
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For desoldering PSOP-44 i use the ERSA SMD rework station. It have soldering clamp with interchangeable mouthpiece for Psop44 - Tsop44 - Plcc32 - Plcc64 - Sop8 etc... It svery quick and save using it  Best regards.RS |
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