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Author Topic: How would a test know if you are running an aftermarket ME7.x tune?  (Read 4526 times)
nyet
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https://www.yahoo.com/now/california-start-testing-ecu-tunes-133700524.html
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sda2
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2021, 04:36:49 AM »

This or something similar is everyday business in Germany since Diesel gate.

With every inspection, the emissions tester checks the CVN for prog and calibration space to check for a legitimate combination.

This procedure is used to identify non-legal tunes and also old software versions that still had the "defeat device" code present.

WinOLS has plugins for CVN & HU fix for many Diesel ECUs that retains the orignal CVN values, I guess these will expand to petrol engine managements soon.


In the end its a computer and it reports to the tester what the code is programmed to tell. CVN fix on old MS43 was a 5 minute ASM change and it now reports whatever you want it to report.
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Blazius
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 05:03:49 AM »

Its just another bullshit obstacle for cali, they should just float away and even americans seems to think so lol.
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2021, 11:08:48 AM »

Does anyone have any ME7 specific information to add?

I have no idea what a CVN or HU is..
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ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
prj
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 11:21:52 AM »

CVN is OBD II mandated, and ME7 calculates it as well.
In many ECU's it's just an additive sum or CRC32 so it's easy to force a collision by using some unused area of the ECU. In others not so much.
It's also possible to just patch the PID to always output the same CVN no matter what.
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Blazius
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 12:37:07 PM »

Does anyone have any ME7 specific information to add?

I have no idea what a CVN or HU is..

Not ME7 but the database starts from 2000 apparently(cali audi forum member), so AEB etc. M3/M5.9 can get away without this test. also APR sells "certified" tunes already.
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Geomeo
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2021, 07:03:17 PM »

This is kind of a back stab really.  Or maybe someone shooting themselves in the foot.  If it weren’t for tuning the vw diesel emissions software scam probably would have never been found out.  I read somewhere I think they were using winols or tuner pro to figure the cheat out.  I’m glad I don’t live in California, but there is always that worry that the tree sniffers will spread like covid to other states.  Maybe someone can take up legal action for infringing on a tuning business. 
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_nameless
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2021, 07:25:23 PM »

CWM9CVNSUP?
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_nameless
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2021, 07:35:39 PM »

directly before sry maps
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d3irb
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2021, 07:39:43 PM »

About tuning and dieselgate: university researchers did eventually use tuning software to look at the Dieselgate calibrations (they were probably here on Nef at some point or another on their journey!), but the funniest thing about dieselgate was that the whole thing was in the A2L+FR for EDC17 the whole time, it was just called "acoustic function" : http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~klevchen/diesel-sp17.pdf .

Anyway, those researchers weren't the ones to find and expose the dieselgate scandal anyway - the VW scandal was originally found by a nonprofit called International Council on Clean Transportation, and it was found the old fashioned way by using tailpipe sniffers. They weren't even looking for an emissions cheat - they were just trying to figure out how USDM diesels were supposed to be so much cleaner than EUDM ones.  

The constant parallels on forums and elsewhere between dieselgate and tuning are interesting to me, because as far as I can see it there is really limited to no link at all between the two. Dieselgate had nothing to do with OBD or CAN, nothing to do with aftermarket tuning or aftermarket emissions defeat, and wasn't found by tuners. It was a simple mapswitching function added by VW and Bosch to fudge the US emissions testing system using drive pattern heuristics, and it was found using tailpipe sniffers.

The only tuning related thing that came out of the VW scandal is the EU checks for CVNs. These started because the EU regulators were worried that people wouldn't bring their diesels in for the software update. And they were right, because who would want to given the choice?

The US tuning crackdown, meanwhile, can be directly attributed to idiotic "coal rolling" diesel tuners - they're who the EPA went after first, and now that they've hit the "low hanging" fruits there it's onto the gas crowd.

Anyway, as for CVN - as prj pointed out, it's just an arbitrary set of bytes attached to an OBD-II handler "09 06", required in the US since MY2005. The regulators in various countries maintain a database of "valid" CVNs given certain criteria, which they're provided by the manufacturers. In some places the CVN database is keyed on Calibration ID (another arbitrary set of bytes in OBD-II land, "09 04"), in others on VIN or model year.

The CVN itself is often just a CRC32 but can also be pretty much any checksum routine - the regulatory requirement is just that it's unique for any given ASW+CAL byte sequence. It can, of course, be patched at the handler level or manipulated using checksum tricks, but this comes with stiff legal penalties if discovered in the US. Meanwhile, in the EU several vendors like Alientech openly advertise CVN replacement as a feature, so go figure.
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tadope
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2021, 10:59:26 AM »

Is there another thread on this? I couldn't find any via search.
Ca just added modded ECU to their no pass smog list.

I'm wondering how they can sniff if the ECU is modded?

My original ECu had a riser in it. So I literally don't have an unmodified original ECu anymore

I'm currently running a different model# ECU crossflashed to my car.  The eeprom had been immo off.

I'm wondering if I'll even pass if I put a stock file on and all the emissions hardware back on.

Can our programming tools fool the car smog system still?
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d3irb
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2021, 11:53:07 AM »

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=19698.msg147119#msg147119

For cars which are new enough to support it (I think it's 2006+?), California use Calibration ID "09 04" and CVN "09 06" to verify the ECU software is stock. For older cars, I believe the test is still readiness based.
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tadope
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2021, 02:08:36 PM »

i have a 2001 me7.5

so it won't check calibration id/cvn?
all it does is scan readiness?

That sounds like the ecu check only applies to 2006+ cars then.
but the article i read said that it's anything 1996+ obdII based.
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d3irb
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2021, 02:56:53 PM »

CVN wasn't required by the OBD-II standards until 2005/2006, but I have no idea if their database also makes note of older cars which support it.
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nyet
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2021, 04:36:18 PM »

ME7.x most definitely supports both calibration ID "09 04" and CVN "09 06", some support VIN reporting as well (e.g. cars with IMMO).

However, I have reason to believe CA's database of CVNs does not reach back that far.

Unfortunately, even discussing it here is risky; I'd recommend taking this to PM, preferably not on this board.
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ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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