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Author Topic: Stingy OP discovers hardware failure with GTX2860R  (Read 17352 times)
kruftindustries
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« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2022, 08:18:57 AM »

Sometimes the engine logs can diagnose an engine defect better than cheap talk. I'm curious about what is broken too but would rather not pull the motor if it's just an aftermarket CCT flapping around...
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kruftindustries
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« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2022, 01:42:28 PM »

Thanks to a helpful tip I think we're onto something. Measuring block 093 was -8° crank angle.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2022, 04:43:10 AM by kruftindustries » Logged
kruftindustries
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« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2022, 05:28:53 AM »

Do I need to do anything special with the cam chain tensioner for upgraded intake springs? Do I just use Hooke’s law to pick a new one that roughly equals the rate of the intake spring x 3?

When I took the tensioner out the only thing holding the bottom shoe down is the spring, not the oil pressure when the solenoid is de-activated. Or is the solenoid defective?
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aef
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« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2022, 01:40:28 AM »

What are you trying to achieve?
For the -8 degree you have to mount an adjustable timing belt wheel.
This has nothing todo with your chain or tensioner as long as your wnwi_w value is calm and near 0.

You can buy a new chain if you like but the offset in timing is coming from a recurfacing of block and/or head in the past.
Or from a non-standart sealing which has another thickness.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2022, 01:43:04 AM by aef » Logged
kruftindustries
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« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2022, 04:52:48 AM »

wnwi_w is moving on it's own from 4000rpm, is rotating clockwise relative to crank and gets to +8°> by 4600-4800 depending on how fast crank accelerates and stays at or above +6° until redline. 60psi oil above 4k or so. Intake cam caps look fine.

see here for graph with wnwi_w issue:
...I lowered KFZW to reduce timing pull but it stays almost the same no matter how much boost I run...

I will have to get the adjustable wheel to hit 0° in block 93.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2022, 05:00:46 AM by kruftindustries » Logged
kruftindustries
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« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2022, 09:34:47 PM »

Obviously this isn't the best way to resolve the problem but I found an additional spring that fits in the cam chain tensioner top piston and the timing issue seems to be greatly improved now. wnwi_w is still higher than 1.5°  after 3800rpm but nowhere near 6-8° like before.
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aef
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« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2022, 12:06:58 AM »

You have the sieve in the tensioners bottom hole and the sealing is okay? no silicone nightmare everywhere?

Is your vvt working from 0 to 22 degree?
edit: its in your log and okay...

How old is the chain and how many miles?
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kruftindustries
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« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2022, 01:05:25 AM »

Metal screen was clean when I took out it seemed like it wouldn't cause harm so put back in.
No visible silicone ooze anywhere near the oil hole.
~18k miles on the chain. Both arrows are in the cam keyway grooves when tensioner is tight and loose if that means anything.

Might be relevant, Crank TDC is about 1/8" before the timing cover mark but other than that nothing looked off. Both head and block have been machined.

I should probably take some measurements and make a model in fusion, calculate the forces involved because I suspect the tensioner is still not quite holding the chain apart like it should.
Unless the oil holes in the top piston were just drilled too high or the bore is tapered near the top I don't see a good assurance a replacement tensioner wouldn't do the same thing.
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Geomeo
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« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2022, 04:06:07 PM »

I'm confused a little by this thread.  Is everyone who has a GTX2860R going to have the same issues  without a timing adjustment wheel or are you trying to fudge the engine because it wasn't built correctly?
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prj
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« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2022, 12:27:12 AM »

I'm confused a little by this thread.  Is everyone who has a GTX2860R going to have the same issues  without a timing adjustment wheel or are you trying to fudge the engine because it wasn't built correctly?
The latter.

Even if cam timing is a 7-8 degrees out, it does not explain the knock and late ignition timing.
Ignition timing does not "move" with the cam somehow, the trigger is on the crankshaft.

Most likely the head was skimmed a lot and wrong thickness head gasket was used together with other issues.

There is never any need to do anything with the tensioner with different springs. But OP seems to be too stingy to fit a new one after an engine build. Not to mention running pulls with 2.5 degrees zwout at high rpm without realizing that the engine is being destroyed.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 12:32:26 AM by prj » Logged

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kruftindustries
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« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2022, 09:24:21 AM »

@Geomeo I should change the thread title since that issue was resolved almost a year ago. Engine build was summer 2014, new turbo last February.

I had timing pull, decreased timing in KFZW and it still had timing pull. Then someone sent me a PM pointing out cam angle was doing something weird. It needs a new tensioner. Was a Gates VVS143, lasted about 19k miles. If anything this was a demonstration of the quality of that turbocharger and supertech exhaust valves.


« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 09:54:23 AM by kruftindustries » Logged
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