Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Copyright infringment vs threft  (Read 17974 times)
gman86
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +43/-128
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2016, 09:43:52 AM »

i must be a minority being in favor of supporting developers that supply tools, both hardware and software.

still not sure why. i can almost guarantee none of you work for free.

If you're so keen on copyright law being respected, I presume you completely erase the ECUs you work on and don't plagiarize the processor code and majority of the calibration data??

I refer back to my point that if you claim to have never used/dowloaded pirate software and/or music, you're a liar.

You're definitely in a minority, but it's not for the reasons that you claim. It's for unadulterated hypocrisy.

Logged
nubcake
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +53/-4
Offline Offline

Posts: 401


« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2016, 12:46:17 PM »

i must be a minority being in favor of supporting developers that supply tools, both hardware and software.

still not sure why. i can almost guarantee none of you work for free.

It's not about "being in favor of supporting devs", it's about being so self-righteous about it.
Logged
k0mpresd
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +144/-53
Offline Offline

Posts: 1655


« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2016, 12:55:09 PM »

It's not about "being in favor of supporting devs", it's about being so self-righteous about it.

because i use the tools these people provide to support myself. i respect the service and product they provide.
they earned the money. i feel they 100% deserve it. these companies provide support when i need it, they provide updates for new protocols, they provide pin out documentation, etc.

if no one paid, and everyone used a "clone", there would be no more tools. give credit where credit is due is my point.
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +572/-145
Online Online

Posts: 11959


WWW
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2016, 01:24:31 PM »

I've worked in embedded software for 25+ years.

The fact of the matter is, current copyright and patent law have crippled all kinds of innovation and progress.

I've seen it throughout my career, and continue to see it today.

The people who support the current schemes (e.g. DMCA, criminalizing copyright infringement, extending copyright terms, enabling patent trolls) are a cancer.

The people IN the industry (as programmers and developers) that don't see this are naive and have been brainwashed, IMO.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
k0mpresd
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +144/-53
Offline Offline

Posts: 1655


« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2016, 01:28:24 PM »

i am not saying people should go to jail for using clones or anything of the like.

my point is you are hurting the very people that provided you the product in the first place.
without paying customers (aka everyone using clones or a serial # generator), there is no more $ to continue to provide or support a product.

to have such a blatant disregard for actually supporting the developer and just saying "well, i dont really use it, so im not going to pay for the part i do use" is disrespectful and you are stealing from the person who provided the original genuine product.
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +572/-145
Online Online

Posts: 11959


WWW
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2016, 01:41:24 PM »

Equating copyright infringement with theft does nothing to advance your (reasonable) position of wanting to support developers; it only exacerbates the problem by making your position seem unreasonable.

IMO, it is not a black and white issue; I support limited copyright and patent protection, but IMO the current state of things is insane and unsustainable.

Copyright/patents are a STATUTORY monopoly, and nothing is more destructive and corrosive to competition than monopoly.

Having a natural monopoly is bad enough; unilaterally applauding unlimited government enforced monopoly is beyond silly.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +572/-145
Online Online

Posts: 11959


WWW
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2016, 01:49:43 PM »

Quote
Let me say what I think your problem is. You can use these harsh terms, but you are dealing with something new, and the question is, does the statutory monopoly that Congress has given you reach out to that something new. And that's a very debatable question. You don't solve it by calling it 'theft.' You have to show why this court should extend a statutory monopoly to cover the new thing. That's your problem. Address that if you would. And curtail the use of abusive language.

- Judge John T. Noonan, to lawyer Russell Frackman, MGM vs. Grokster, 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

Also, see http://nyet.org/ for a compendium of related quotes Smiley
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
k0mpresd
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +144/-53
Offline Offline

Posts: 1655


« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2016, 02:03:25 PM »

i see you have spent some time thinking about this as well.  Smiley
Logged
diagnosticator
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +1/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 42


« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 07:37:47 PM »

I believe the key factor involved with the flood of clones or other types of licencing defeats for  software tools is the excessive cost to obtain genuine software. I cannot believe the actual cost of developing the applications useful for ECU tuning justify the very high prices these software products demand. If the pricing structure was aligned according to the affordability factor for the typical guy starting out in tuning with licensing costs for individual owner/enthusiasts associated with functionality tiers. Software tool applications  that are affordable for beginners, not just priced such that only established businesses can afford to acquire, would for the most part eliminate the  clones and licensing hacks, while increasing sales for software tool developers. If the pricing was more realistic, the market would determine the best tools with the best quality and practical  application features  vs purchase pricing being the focus of real competition in the market that does not exist now. The only justification for the excessively high pricing of most software applications tools, is to limit the availability to a select few, with the per license profit margin supported by low volume sales. The widespread existence of clones and license hacks is the fault of software developers demanding excessive prices, distorting the price/demand open market rules, IMO.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 07:46:19 PM by diagnosticator » Logged
s60rawr
Newbie
*

Karma: +3/-22
Offline Offline

Posts: 21


« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2022, 03:25:16 PM »

Leechers? So you're telling me you decided to get into tuning and straight away bought a legit OLS license and an original tool? Don't talk shit. I'm not a tuner, I'm a hobbiest. I tune my own cars and maybe the odd friends if they're game for a laugh. I'm not up for dropping 6 or 7k on tools that I'll only be using 1% of the protocols. If I decided to do it commercially, I'd want the support and reliability that original tools provide so would then invest. I think you'll find the majority of folk would go via this route too. Think about clones as being shareware.

If clones didn't exist, you'd find there wouldn't be nearly as many original sales as there are.

^^^^^
100%
Logged
s60rawr
Newbie
*

Karma: +3/-22
Offline Offline

Posts: 21


« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2022, 03:26:34 PM »

i must be a minority being in favor of supporting developers that supply tools, both hardware and software.

still not sure why. i can almost guarantee none of you work for free.
I'm all in support, if they actually made it available for us to purchase and not hoard it.. ie: Volvo me7 shit.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.022 seconds with 18 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0s, 0q)