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Author Topic: Narrowband leans out - swap to wideband ?  (Read 14447 times)
UM-Olli-92
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« on: August 14, 2016, 11:28:59 PM »

Hi @all

I drive an S3 1.8T from 1999.

It has an Narrowband ECU without VVT and EGT Sensor from factory.
ECU Number is: 8L0906018N

I have done some mods to it for example:
K04 turbo with 47mm compressor and 44 mm turbine
H-rods, Sachs Race clutch, 2,75mm exhaust from turbo
Bosch 470cc injectors, 4bar FPR and DW65V fuel pump

From the beginning I have the problem, that the system leans out when boost goes over 1,3 bar.
I have installed a wideband Lambda gauge for diagnostics...

1,0 bar - 0,80
1,1 bar - 0,80
1,2 bar - 0,80
1,3 bar - 0,83
1,4 bar - 0,88
1,5 bar - 0,91

Software on the ECU is made by a guy with skills (also on the Nef Forum)

I have already replaced my fuelpump 3x times
- MAP and MAF sensor
- my FPR and my injectors even with bigger ones like deka 630 but the problem was still there :-(

Is this a narrowband problem ?

If yes, than I want to swap the ECU to wideband model like 06A906032 HN
Because it has no egt sensors like an S3 wideband ECU

So my plan is to swap a Golf 4 1.8t wideband ECU into my S3, replace the O2 Sensor and deactivate VVT in the file of 032 hn

Does someone have a complete pinout of both ECUs ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Oliver
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 11:31:34 PM by UM-Olli-92 » Logged
vwaudiguy
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 12:07:32 AM »

It doesn't seem like a narrowband issue unless it's mapped wrong. An easy way to see if it's fuel delivery is to monitor fuel pressure under full load. No need to change pump if pressure is good. Swapping to a wideband is always a good idea, though.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 12:10:39 AM »

It doesn't seem like a narrowband issue unless it's mapped wrong. An easy way to see if it's fuel delivery is to monitor fuel pressure under full load. No need to change pump if pressure is good. Swapping to a wideband is always a good idea, though.

i agree. narrowband isnt ideal but it should still technically work.
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UM-Olli-92
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 02:33:58 AM »

Ok thank you I will check that out
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adam-
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2016, 05:02:14 AM »

Who is your tuner?  Why 4 bar?  DW65V should be plenty; you have an issue somewhere else.
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2016, 10:12:29 AM »

Is this a narrowband problem ?

LOL no.
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UM-Olli-92
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2016, 06:03:38 AM »

I checked the fuel pressure under full load.

With 1,5 bar of boost and 4 bar FPR, the pressure is 5,5 bar from 3000 - 6000 rpm.


So this is not my problem  Sad
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adam-
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2016, 06:31:07 AM »

How do you know it's leaning out? 
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mechanic
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2016, 09:49:54 AM »

How do you know it's leaning out? 
Topic author wrote:
I have installed a wideband Lambda gauge for diagnostics...
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nyet
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2016, 10:33:08 AM »

You likely have a leak post maf, pre turbo inlet.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
UM-Olli-92
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 01:54:55 PM »

I double checked my complete Boost and Inlet pipes.
Everything is ok and has no leaks.

There is another strange thing I want to tell you.

When I reset all learning values with VCDS on the ECU it will always run on Lambda 1,0

No matter how much I press the gas pedal on any rpm or boost it will alway stay on Lambda 1,0

I already replaced the O2 Sensor.

The only way to get the car run richer is to use Lemmiwinks and set primary fuel to +25%
But this is very unprecise as you can imagine.
Sometimes the car runs rich like 0.80 under WOT. After 10 seconds waiting for the next WOT pull it runs lean like 0.93 under full load.


My LAMAFA and KFLBTS maps request a rich mixture like 0.78 so that should not be the Problem

 Sad

I dont know what to do anymore but swapping to a wideband :-(


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k0mpresd
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2016, 02:02:11 PM »

this sounds as if there are some fault codes being left out of the discussion as well.
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UM-Olli-92
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2016, 02:08:09 PM »

No fault codes are stored on the ecu.
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nyet
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2016, 02:20:44 PM »

I dont know what to do anymore but swapping to a wideband :-(

You're completely insane if you think that is going to fix anything, let alone not make things WORSE

Pressure test and post logs. You're completely on the wrong track right now.

You're running an unknown tune, you have no idea what the tuner did. You said it was a problem from the start. The fueling was not tuned correctly from the start.

You then change FPR and injectors without a retune.

You're dealing with a zillion different unknowns and somehow you're going to "switch to wideband"? Using whose tune? Who is doing the conversion?

There are so many things going wrong here I don't know where to start.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 02:24:53 PM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
UM-Olli-92
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2016, 02:59:35 PM »

OK

Then let us start with logs.

I have VCDS. What do you want me to log ?
I guess rpm vs lambda.
Boost ?

Fuel pressure is defenetly ok.

My guess would be, that my ECU is faulty
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