nitrorocket
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« on: November 17, 2011, 06:57:02 PM »
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So I need input from the best of the best for a project that nobody seems to offer me ANY advice on whatsoever…
I not new to the tuning world, but am relatively new to the BMW tuning. I build custom cars and this is just another one, but I need some BMW specific input…
I have a project I am working on(putting a 1000hp twin turbo engine into an X5 BMW... I am installing a 2010 LC9(5.3 Chevy engine) system into a 2005 BMW x5 4.8is. Both are drive by wire and both use an electronic 6 speed transmission.
I am trying to debate on what I should do for integrating the two systems which all depends on the BMW tuning capabilities. If this were a GM, I would not even be asking these questions...
So I need advice:
Should I run the GM engine off the BMW ECM? (This depends how adjustable and what the limitations of the BMW ECM are)
-I would need to be able to delete any pids that run the BMW engine and not needed for the GM.
-I would need an adaptor to still use the ZF6HP26 transmission behind the GM engine.
-I could use the oil pressure sensor, alternator, A/C, and other sensors from the BMW engine on the GM engine so th ecomputer will read them and the gauges will still work
Or, Should I try to inegrate the two systems together, as in use both the ECM's for both engines using fucntions of each to run the truck?(This would depend if I can delete all the pids from the BMW ECU, and then feed tach signal into the BMW system)
-The GM engine is pretty much a standalone system and with power and ground will run itself.
-I would also be using the GM 6L80E GM 6 speed transmission and transfer case
-If I ran both together I would need to be able to delete all the codes and parameters from the BMW system that will no longer be used because there will not be an engine that the BMW ECM is controlling anymore.
-I would use the sensors from the BMW engine on the GM engine to allow easier integration with the gauges, I would run the bmw gas pedal and feed the signal into the GM along with everything else necessary both ways.
My main questions are:
What is able to be tuned out of the BMW ECM?
Does the ECM control the suspension?
-What controls the transmission?
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 07:35:37 PM »
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There is not as much open source bmw info as there is audi info... ecuconnections.com is a better place to look for bmw specific advice.
I think i would attempt to run gm software since you know that very well, and make the rest of the car work around that.
i would think any info in the med9 tuning thread would help you with the bmw stuff though.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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RaraK
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2011, 06:23:30 AM »
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i stay stick with GM ECU, there are way to many variables and things you need to tune to swap it over.
why swap a american v8 for a bmw one? why not just turbo the bmw motor? or swap a turbo bmw motor in? saves you on a LOT of issues, and its not like bmw motors are not great motors for the most part.
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 07:39:24 AM »
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^^ +1 I would just turbo the BMW motor...
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nitrorocket
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 09:13:39 AM »
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I really doubt the 4.8 or any N62 engine will handle 1000hp as an every day driver. I have 1000hp engines in others daily drivers but they are chevy engines. I really sont want to invest $10k in internal engine parts to find out the cranks cnap at 1000hp or something and lose the whole motor. Way to expensive to use as an experiment. However, The LS GM motors are bulletproof, plentiful, more reliable, and have better mileage. My 5.3 liter trucks get an average of 2-3mpg better then my uber expensive high tech BMW engine. Kinda makes me wonder what BMW is thinking... However, I do love the vehicles themselves, just not the engines. I like excessive horsepower.  So... I think I will use the entire GM engine and transmission, and try to integrate the inputs as much as possible with the BMW stuff so I can keep everything functional. Time will tell... Lots of research to do yet though.... Any advice on how the electronics work is much appreciated. I am worried, becasue I will be able to run the truck with both computers connected, but the bmw ECM is going to keep throwing codes becasue there will not be an engine connected to it. I need to know what software will allow me to delete not just the code, but the PID fron the ECM itself so it doesnt ever throw codes again... Thanks Guys!!!! |
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RaraK
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 11:00:20 AM »
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I really doubt the 4.8 or any N62 engine will handle 1000hp as an every day driver. I have 1000hp engines in others daily drivers but they are chevy engines. I really sont want to invest $10k in internal engine parts to find out the cranks cnap at 1000hp or something and lose the whole motor. Way to expensive to use as an experiment. However, The LS GM motors are bulletproof, plentiful, more reliable, and have better mileage. My 5.3 liter trucks get an average of 2-3mpg better then my uber expensive high tech BMW engine. Kinda makes me wonder what BMW is thinking... However, I do love the vehicles themselves, just not the engines. I like excessive horsepower. So... I think I will use the entire GM engine and transmission, and try to integrate the inputs as much as possible with the BMW stuff so I can keep everything functional. Time will tell... Lots of research to do yet though.... Any advice on how the electronics work is much appreciated. I am worried, becasue I will be able to run the truck with both computers connected, but the bmw ECM is going to keep throwing codes becasue there will not be an engine connected to it. I need to know what software will allow me to delete not just the code, but the PID fron the ECM itself so it doesnt ever throw codes again... Thanks Guys!!!! you will need to research can bus and keep bmw factory computer connected as piggyback i bet. yes lots of research |
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nitrorocket
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 04:46:47 PM »
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I will have no problem getting the truck to actually run and drive, It will jsut be a matter of getting the engine lights off, making sure all the gauges work, and keeping as many oem features working as possible such as the oem shifter, etc.
All this will be easy as long as I am able to get into the BMW system and eliminate non used features so that the codes dont come on. Features like the BMW engine, transmission, and transfer case.
So far, I dont know what software I need to buy to do this? TunerPro? But does Tunerpro eliminate or change or code both ECM and BCM features? Because I will need to do both...
I realluy do not understand the lack of "performance" info available on these cars. Especially considering most of us owners make big buck and can actually afford to throwe $30-$50k in mods into our cars... Odd...
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Jason
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Breaks everything!
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 05:36:12 PM »
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Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you may be in over your head.
Personally I would use the GM ECU. You are asking for trouble trying to adapt sensors and run an engine with another engine's ECU. I have seen a few E39 LS1 swaps where the DME is completely removed, and the ABS and instrument cluster work using the LS1 ECU.
It used to be that the rest of the car ran independently on "iBus" or whatever BMW called it, so the ancillary systems were essentially unaware of what the powertrain was doing.
Whatever the case, you may just need a box to convert the can data from the GM stuff into the can data the BMW stuff expects to see.
What are you doing about cruise control, HVAC, fan control, and the like? Those systems all integrate fairly closely with the ECU.
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2011, 09:20:08 AM »
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Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you may be in over your head.
I'll have to agree. |
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TTQS
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 02:18:21 PM »
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^^ +1 I would just turbo the BMW motor...
Agreed. Start with a 2012 BMW X5 M with its 4.4 litre twin turbo V8 outputting 555 bhp in OEM specification. Bore out the block to 6 or 7 litres, add new internals, bigger turbos, big bore exhaust, all the usual shit, recalibrate the ECU and you should be knocking on the door of 1,000 bhp you desire. Job done. Let us know how it goes. http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/index/0,,1156_181251447__bs-TQ%3D%3D%40bb-R1kwMg%3D%3D%40bm-R1kwMw%3D%3D%40gab-R1kwMg%3D%3D%40gau-factsandfiguresNew%40gas-TQ%3D%3D,00.htmlOr see the attached brochure in PDF format. Sadly, you'll have to import it from Europe because it doesn't seem to be available in the North American market... TTQS |
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 02:21:04 PM by TTQS »
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 08:03:48 AM »
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^^^ That motor is available here in the X5 and X6 M as well as the new 7er and soon to be new M5
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TTQS
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2011, 10:51:18 AM »
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^^^ That motor is available here in the X5 and X6 M as well as the new 7er and soon to be new M5
Cool. No barriers to that project blasting off then!  I can only add that the man is in the wrong place because we're mainly Audi people and amateur enthusiasts, not expert tuners. All the best with it though. TTQS |
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