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Author Topic: Lean Burn 3.2 FSI MED9.1  (Read 7126 times)
3ri
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« on: September 29, 2016, 02:19:47 AM »

Hello,

I've got a Passat 3.2 FSI AXZ MED9.1 03H 906 032 HB and I'm trying to achieve some economy on fuel. I've changed a few maps in my file and now I can let it run @ 1.1 lambda. Only I had to set the ecu to open loop till about 60% load to achieve this, when I'm asking more than 60% load or higher than 3400rpm it set it to closed loop and lambda 1.0. Does somebody know if it's possible to achieve lambda 1.1 with closed loop?

I've attached a Log of my open loop lambda value's.

Br,
Erick
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gman86
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 02:59:02 AM »

Sounds like you're going about it wrong. Fuel economy is best with increased efficiency. Leaning out won't make the engine any more efficient, it'll just create more heat thus less efficiency. You should be looking at cam timing and ignition timing along with making the throttle pedal more linear if you're looking to save fuel.
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3ri
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 04:22:39 AM »

As far as I know lean mixtures improves consumption. AFR around 16:1 means less fuel consumption, but it's not good for your emissions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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gman86
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 05:21:11 AM »

Assuming the engine ran exactly as it did at lambda 1, then yes. But you'll generate heat that has to be compensated for by less ignition timing, meaning less efficiency, meaning more fuel for a given torque output. You'd need to recalibrate every area of the torque management structure.

A true lean burn FSI runs AFRs closer to 45-50:1, but use a stratified injection mode that involves spraying the fuel literally at the very last millisecond. A homogeneous mixture of that AFR would melt things, quickly.
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3ri
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 06:36:57 AM »

Melting things at this low load looks pretty impossible to me at this afr. I advanced timing instead of retard it and thats also working at this (part) load. So maybe our opinions differ :-), It's fun to test it and see if it works. If not it's pretty easy to flash back to stock.

Well back to my question, anybody knows if it's possible to run a higher lambda in closed loop?
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gman86
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 08:13:18 AM »

Melting things at this low load looks pretty impossible to me at this afr. I advanced timing instead of retard it and thats also working at this (part) load. So maybe our opinions differ :-), It's fun to test it and see if it works. If not it's pretty easy to flash back to stock.

Well back to my question, anybody knows if it's possible to run a higher lambda in closed loop?

You're not running anywhere near the stratified AFR though. I did say that the stratified AFRs would melt things.

You say you've advanced ignition, but have you logged to see CFs and any other corrections that affect zwout?

Anyway, I can't offer assistance to able to run that AFR, it's not something I've ever wanted to try.
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3ri
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 11:21:24 AM »

Thanks for your help. Maybe you can explain a bit about the camshaft timing which would help reduce consumption?
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prj
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 01:05:21 PM »

Assuming the engine ran exactly as it did at lambda 1, then yes. But you'll generate heat

Please stop repeating this drivel over and over again.
The hottest burning mixture in homogenous mode is stoich, so lambda 1. Anything richer or leaner than that produces lower EGT on a gasoline engine... Take a gauge and observe...
Hence why most heat related engine damage occurs when running a mixture between lambda 1.05 and 0.9, and not when the fueling is so bad that it dips to 1.1 and up.

What OP is trying to do is a complete waste of time though. The difference will be negligible at best.
The way to really have more efficiency on FSI is to have a stratified burn thus massively reducing pumping loss. Creates tons of NoX though, there the temperature is also an issue due to the mixture not being homogenous, so you have hot spots and cold spots. The engine needs to be specifically designed for this though.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 01:14:04 PM by prj » Logged

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gman86
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2016, 07:38:59 PM »

Please stop repeating this drivel over and over again.

On a roll with the useful and diplomatic input these days. This forum in definitely on a downwards spiral. But since we're sharing information sans any diplomacy...

Quote from: prj
The way to really have more efficiency on FSI is to have a stratified burn ... The engine needs to be specifically designed for this though.

It's almost as if they had thought about stratified mode on F"S"I when it was designed with the GDI and special "rabbit ear" style pistons. Some earlier ECUs retain the ability to re-enable stratified mode even without NoX sensors.
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