Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: The Basics of ME7 Tuning  (Read 5228 times)
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +343/-40
Offline Offline

Posts: 8011


WWW
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2017, 12:49:04 PM »

it's because you are dealing with a larger housing that is capable of more airflow.

No, that isn't why. The reason why is covered in the s4 wiki.

"Capable" means nothing; any pipe is "capable" of infinite flow.

Sensors have velocity metering limits.

Velocity * cross sectional area gives you volumetric flow.

The sensor measures velocity (more or less).

Change the cross section, and the actual flow is different for a given velocity.

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Mass_air_flow


« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 12:51:57 PM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
HelperC
Newbie
*

Karma: +4/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2017, 07:31:42 PM »

Thanks nyet! I will read that part over again, all in the pleasure of learning Smiley Appreciate you chiming in!
Logged
HelperC
Newbie
*

Karma: +4/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2017, 09:53:09 PM »

So an update!  Scaled the MAF according to the mafadjust app however was still not making requested fueling.  Did some further investigating as to why we could have been leaning out.  Ended up checking fuel pressure via a mechanical gauge under wide open condition and found that it had a massive drop off. Anyways changed the fuel pump for a new unit and now I am meeting requested AFR as per LAMFA.  What a pain but it just goes to show that sometimes it's not you that's the problem Smiley

I have been playing quite a bit with the me7 computers lately and have been having a great time.  I wish I had more time to update this post to give you all some more information but time is very sparse lately.

As far as timing is concerned and the changes I have made so far.

KFZW and KFZW2 are the only maps that I have played with thus far.  I only make changes in timing along the high load axis and that is it.  I have seen examples of tuners changing KFZWOP and KFZWOP2 but I have also read on this forum time and time again that timing does not surpass KFZW/KFZW2 ever.  Just wanted some clarification so we can all further our understanding of this.  I will be eyeballs deep in the FR while someone writes a reply to this I'm sure Cheesy.

Logged
RBPE
Full Member
***

Karma: +16/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 215



« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 07:33:48 AM »

Interpretations of the ecu are not the only things to consider, laminar v turbulent flow and what the sensors are capable of are one thing to take into account, if there's too much turbulence then the sensor(s) will not get correct readings no matter whether or not the map is scaled correctly, hence why things like pulsations maps exist.

In the Bosch guide I put up in the noob area somewhere, it also talks about the HFM series changes from older Motronic to the often used HFM 5 series too, where they changed the design to a glass ceramic substrate one due to (possible) turbulence and reading problems (as many VR6 induction/turbo owners may have experienced), plus, you need to clarify what you mean by the term "VR6 MAF" too!

In markets there are generally;
2.8 12v AAA - mk3 Golf's universal (I think) and I think the US used them in the Corrado,
Here in UK we had the ABV 2.9 in the Corrado's
Both of the above (I don't do much on older Motronic VR6 so correct me if I am wrong), they used a 256x1 map v's a 512x1 MLHFM in ME7.
Generally, here in the UK at least, when people say VR6 we picture those older AAA/ABV types, mk4 cars were referred to as V6 4 motions, I think the US are fwd(?) so are generally used as a term for the mk4's, you (US) also had the ME7.1 12V MK4's whereas we didn't and I can't remember what the MAF maps are but if 7.1 then I guess they have a 512x1 MLHFM.

So..... the term "VR6 MAF" can have profound differences from the start for people looking into it, there are differences to take into account just on the language and marketing differences alone, is it an old none ceramic/glass substrate version of maf used on older Motronic - will it be prone to more problems of turbulent flow which means you are somewhat downgrading, or is it a later HFM 5? Do you need to rescale due to older Motronic 12v's having the 256x1 map etc? Few things to note there for DIYers!

Everything with this tuning is essentially air/fuel tuning, so you make changes in air, then what need's to be done? Spark needs to be timed with the air/fuel but are the air/fuel interpretations correct or tuned to any degree after changing? I see little mention on some value differences in HFM maps, you can get low flow levels the same on HFM 5 for example;

MLHFM & Min mass V6 R32 mk4 mk5 by Rick B, on Flickr

But does that mean other values/calculations are the same like the min flow 4kg/hr above, or are there other values that are different and have you checked them?
Air mass flow adj HFM & TB BDE v BFH by Rick B, on Flickr

DHFM Airmass factors R32 HFM by Rick B, on Flickr

So, once you understand not only the variances in map values, but also design and functionality, then it's off to the other part of the main tuning, the fuel in "air/fuel mixture"! You've checked the air side out now, so what about fuel?

You can change the main maps of certain things, better if you do with maps like MLHFM, but you can also change a single value which, in turn, changes the interpretation of full maps etc - easier than changing a lot. So once you've changed the interpretation of the air flow by upgrading the maf, you've checked the related maf maps/values and are, at least, aware of what these changes represent in terms of air flow to original, then what does this mean in terms of fuel?

It's all about air/fuel don't forget and lambda is a reference to mass ratio, so have you looked at those area's too, what any changes would make to this fuel mass or interpretation thereof?

On ignition, you have things like the time it takes to build up a charge and then release it, so if upgrading your coils for example, these times could be different! Therefore if you are adding R8 parts or whatever is the current flavour of tune, then when it releases spark, you are still aiming for proper deflagration over detonation, so yes, the spark is very much important or at least the time it does!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflagration_to_detonation_transition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdW1t8r8qYc

But before you even look into these things or upgrade things like coils, have you made sure the main aspect of tuning is sound or have a good grasp in what differences there are between parts/ecu values? I guess it's why it's 1st on the wiki!

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Fueling

Didn't mean to hijack - but you want to build yourself a good def file, you are doing air changes, go through all hfm/luft maps to see what relates to what, then check fuelling correlation, THEN look at spark times/upgrades there as a base.

P.S. That's about as succinct as a guide to the basics as I could muster if you're looking into these things as a noob;

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=10419.0title=
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 01:19:46 PM by RBPE » Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.017 seconds with 17 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.001s, 0q)