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Author Topic: Tuning ignition on 1.8T E85+Gt2860  (Read 2393 times)
gt-innovation
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 02:55:44 AM »

You can find tons of info on e85 tuning in certain mitsubishi forums which apply perfectly in your "ignition tuning matter" . Find a good dyno cause that will be the best way to do such changes.
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prj
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 03:38:07 AM »

To begin with i can just try changing the ignition i the areas where I now know that i dont have any turbo boost..
Why I started to wonder about the ignition thing is because I am now running a much more bigger turbo with greater lag. The stock ign curve is adapted to the K03/K04 fast spool..   I mean the K03 hits 0.5 bar almost instantly and the ign advance have been retarded in this area of the map.... So in my understanding i now have a "Hole" in the map because i now have more lag..   

But what if I just log the boost from my GT28 setup and see how much boost I have in an particular area of the map, then i could adjust timing a little bit to optimize a bit. The goal is just to try to compensate with little extra timing where i now no longer have the early K03 Boost. To me this feel it feel reasonable to ad at least one or two degrees in my dead zone of this turbo setup..

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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 06:57:44 AM »

Prj.... you are one funny guy.. knows alot but wont share any knowlede.. why are you even in this forum lol.. im starting to se what person you are haha... even if ppl not always are the smartest you hit on them... it musy mean one thing.. born with a small turbo.. 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 07:05:57 AM by Jim_Coupe » Logged

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prj
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 07:32:31 AM »

You are trying to run before you can walk.
You don't have any idea how the engine works inside but you try to tune a complex factory ECU.

The stuff you wrote just shows your blissful ignorance - and I pointed it out.
There are plenty of books about engines and tuning I recommend reading them - I did.
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 08:59:30 AM »

yeye heard those words before from you prj...


I might have missed something in the thought process about ignition here. I just realized i will never be in that area of the map since i no longer will reach that point of load% with my old smaller turbo... How could i miss that one..
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nyet
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 11:51:06 AM »

yeye heard those words before from you prj...

He may be mean but he isn't wrong..
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 12:28:40 PM »

Thanks for qlarifying this nyet.. you are a big help helping me with things i dont understand by saying i dont understand.. as usual..
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cerips
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 01:16:17 PM »

You keep on getting told to read up on how engines work and you keep on ignoring the advice then complain people won't help you.....

Here's a couple of questions for you to ponder.

What factors affect the ignition advance you can run?

What happens when you advance or retard ignition timing?
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nyet
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 01:32:21 PM »

Thanks for qlarifying this nyet.. you are a big help helping me with things i dont understand by saying i dont understand.. as usual..

Stop being lazy and asking for people to do things for you that you can easily do for yourself.

Why should everyone here be responsible for writing a book about motors for you to read here?
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 03:55:58 AM »

You keep on getting told to read up on how engines work and you keep on ignoring the advice then complain people won't help you.....

Here's a couple of questions for you to ponder.

What factors affect the ignition advance you can run?

What happens when you advance or retard ignition timing?

Ey man read the whole thread..

This was my question

"Im looking for logging methods on how to calibrate timing on E85..  When i tuned this engine on 98okt I logged and looked for timing retard and lowered ign when i ran into knock. I also listened to knock but with E85 it difficult"..


vwaudiguy Gave me a good answer wich confirmed my thoughts and doubts that I had. Thank you man for being helpfull!
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 04:06:07 AM by Jim_Coupe » Logged

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Rick
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 04:04:53 AM »

It's a 3D map - think where the look up point will be when using a larger turbo than original.
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 04:18:32 AM »

It's a 3D map - think where the look up point will be when using a larger turbo than original.
 

ok:)

I´ll have been calibrating for some days now. It now pulls really good around 1.4bar and EGT´s are no concern. I want up to 2.2bar..  I can post what i have so far with some logs later today when i am on my tuning computer..
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2017, 08:29:15 AM »

 

ok:)

 EGTĀ“s are no concern.


Are you using an external sensor? OE model isn't correct anymore.
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
elRey
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2017, 09:36:34 AM »

If you don't have access to a dyno and you have a straight, flat, SAFE bit of road, you can try this:

I'm not saying this will work or be reliable, but could be a last resort kind of thing. Any wind or variation in how you start your runs will all but nullify your results. Other assumptions: same gear, no wheel spin, fueling and EGTs are sorted.

Lower your overall timing well below what you know to be good, noticeable power (within reason). Do several identical runs to get a baseline. Add an extra column next to RPM, then subtract the previous row RPM from current row RPM to get the RPM difference for each row. Better yet, I believe there is a RAM variable for diff in RPM you can log. Graph rl, RPM, RPM difference, and timing out by time (x-axis) or just graph rl, RPM, and timing by RPM. The latter will not require fooling around with resetting the timestamp per run. To graph by time you have to zero out time at the precise beginning of ever run in the data (add extra Timestamp column), so that each run lines up on the same graph. Here is where you'll find out if this method is even possible by how consistent or not consistent your results are between runs. Assuming they are somewhat consistent, then continue.

Logging at least RPM,rl_l, and timing out, bump timing in a small, 1-2 node rpm area you know gets touched during your runs. Bump it a noticeable amount (again within reason). Then do a few more runs. Here is another point where you'll find out if this method is doable. If you can clear see a bump in the RPM difference lines around the RPM area where you made your change, then you might be able to use this method.

Now just continue to adjust, run, log, graph until the RPM difference lines no longer increase (or less of an increase) for a timing increase. Then back timing off a little at that point.

Simplified example:


With RL logged, you can extrapolate where timing changes had an effect. You could play around with RPM diff by diff'ing the row after or the row before to see which way matches more closely with your changes.

Looking at the two graphs, it would seem graphing by RPM gives a false negative after a bump in power. So, maybe graphing by time with the extra data conditioning step is better.

This is all theoretical and may not work at all. Maybe difference in power via RPM difference isn't big enough to distinguish from normal variations between runs.  I haven't tried it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 02:35:07 PM by elRey » Logged
elRey
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2017, 11:10:00 AM »

**spot saved for prj's "ignorance is bliss" comment**

edit: ah crap, did he already say that in this thread ? Sad
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:15:47 AM by elRey » Logged
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