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Author Topic: Advancing KFZW map towards KFZWOP in lower load areas?  (Read 6041 times)
BoobieTrap
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« on: March 04, 2017, 11:22:24 AM »

So I couldn't find any concrete information this.
From what I understand, KFZW is used for ignition timing (in my case KFZW2 is set to the same values as I have an earlier engine without VVT).
We also already have the optimal timing map (KFZWOP) for our engines (assuming gasoline and lambda 1).
I understand that we are somewhat limited for advancing timing at WOT by knock, but why not advance the lower load areas?
I use my car daily and I spend many miles cruising, sometimes at 4k rpm and it hits 5-10 psi when going up long slopes. My EGT gauge also registers up to 850C during these light climbs (usually around 750-790 when cruising at higher speeds).
Would it not lower my EGTs and improve efficiency if I was to advance the lower load areas up to the values in KFZWOP? I always use 99RON fuel so I am not expecting to see knock (though I always keep an eye out for it in the logs)?

Am I missing something?
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4ringpieces
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 11:57:03 AM »

Kfzwop is used for the torque model efficiency

Kfzw is your base timing map before any corrections
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BoobieTrap
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 12:16:33 PM »

So isn't kfzwop the timing for maximum torque/efficiency?
Therefore copying values from kfzwop into kfzw at lower load areas would improve efficiency at cruise/part throttle?
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2017, 05:59:00 PM »

Your theory is correct, but if you think the OEM calibrators left any efficiency on the table you're on drugs Smiley
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gman86
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2017, 03:10:32 AM »

Your theory is correct, but if you think the OEM calibrators left any efficiency on the table you're on drugs Smiley

If they've tuned for the lowest common fuel, there probably is a bit to be had if running on a better fuel. That's engine efficiency though, doesn't take the extra cost into account.

My Mk6 R is averaging about 5mpg (imperial) more on the commute with the same roads, same traffic and (unfortunately) same shit cold weather. Just with cam and ignition advance.
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BoobieTrap
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2017, 04:52:08 AM »

This was my way of thinking, that the OEM calibrator set the timing assuming worst case conditions; hot climate, lowest RON fuel etc. And even then it probably included a margin of safety.
Also I'm pretty sure some of the timing is retarded for emissions purposes - IIRC advancing timing towards MBT can increase emissions.
I have to run 99RON as I'm running a hybrid turbo at 22psi and even then I'm getting up to 5 degrees timing pull due to knock so I may as well attempt to optimize the lower load areas to make use of the premium fuel.

gman86, did you advance the timing using the KFZWOP as "optimum" or did you just add a few degrees across the board (except the high load areas)?
I would be very interested to know if anyone else has played around with timing in the lower load areas.
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gman86
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2017, 11:41:09 AM »

No, I fully advanced the cam in the low load areas and then threw in timing until I started seeing flickers of CF, then pulled out 3 degrees. On average, I've added on average about 7.5 degrees in my low load, low speed (moving off, street speed load areas) and about 4.5 in the cruise (50-90% load, 2.5-4k). In those areas there's also another 8-10 degrees of intake cam advance as well.
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