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Author Topic: 1.8T k04 hybrid boost increase issues  (Read 100018 times)
azaiats
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« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2012, 06:43:19 AM »

Today logs:


Thursday   17   May   2012   10:13:58                                 
06A 906 032 HP      1.8L R4/5VT     G   0001                                       
                                             
   Group A:   '003            Group B:   '115            Group C:   '114         
      Idle speed   Air mass in   Throt Angle   Ignit Angle      Engine Speed   Engine Load   Spec. Boost   Actual Boost      Eng Load Call   Corr. Load   Engine Load   Bypas Dut Cyc/0-100%
   TIME   700-820 rpm   2.0-4.5 g/s   0.2-4.0%   0-12 BTDC   TIME   700-6800 RPM   15-150%   990-1800 mbar   <=1800 mbar   TIME   <=150%   <=150%   15-150%   
Marker   STAMP    /min    g/s   %    ーBTDC   STAMP    /min   %    mbar    mbar   STAMP   %   %   %   %

   454.10   2680   9.25   4.7   0.0   453.49   2720   12.0   930.0   1020.0   453.79   183.5   174.6   12.8   0.0
   455.00   2680   21.89   13.7   21.8   454.40   2680   17.3   930.0   970.0   454.70   182.7   173.1   28.6   0.0
   455.91   2800   59.06   99.6   11.3   455.30   2720   63.9   1500.0   990.0   455.61   184.2   174.6   86.5   95.3
   456.81   2960   87.53   100.0   6.0   456.21   2840   117.3   2270.0   1370.0   456.51   187.2   180.6   131.6   95.3
   457.72   3200   113.83   100.0   3.8   457.11   3000   160.2   2370.0   1870.0   457.42   191.7   189.6   169.9   95.3
   458.62   3480   135.94   100.0   4.5   458.02   3320   189.5   2550.0   2260.0   458.32   191.7   198.5   191.7   95.3
   459.53   3800   145.19   99.6   6.8   458.92   3600   191.7   2550.0   2420.0   459.23   191.7   198.5   191.7   95.3
   460.43   4080   151.08   100.0   6.8   459.83   4000   191.7   2550.0   2500.0   460.13   191.7   197.0   191.7   94.5
   461.34   4400   157.36   100.0   7.5   460.73   4200   191.0   2550.0   2500.0   461.04   191.7   200.0   188.7   95.3
   462.25   4640   146.06   30.6   7.5   461.64   4480   178.2   2090.0   2540.0   461.95   191.7   203.0   160.9   60.8
   463.15   4680   142.11   32.5   7.5   462.54   4520   154.9   1840.0   1560.0   462.85   191.7   203.0   160.9   74.1
   464.06   4800   149.69   39.6   7.5   463.46   4720   112.8   1550.0   1770.0   463.76   191.7   204.5   137.6   72.2
   464.97   4880   131.31   91.4   11.3   464.36   4840   126.3   1600.0   2470.0   464.67   191.7   204.5   145.1   5.5
   465.86   5040   75.03   25.5   12.8   465.26   5000   155.6   1900.0   2080.0   465.56   191.7   206.0   133.8   54.5
   466.77   5160   158.83   52.5   6.8   466.16   5040   120.3   1580.0   1230.0   466.48   191.7   206.0   115.0   66.3
   467.67   5200   154.83   96.1   9.0   467.08   5080   97.0   1350.0   1790.0   467.37   191.7   204.5   104.5   70.2
   468.59   5320   127.64   94.5   9.8   467.97   5240   142.9   1380.0   2440.0   468.29   191.7   203.0   85.0   0.0
   469.48   5360   75.14   27.5   12.8   468.89   5360   148.1   1760.0   1960.0   469.19   191.7   203.0   112.8   33.3
   470.40   5480   61.14   23.5   16.5   469.79   5480   115.0   1680.0   1460.0   470.10   191.7   203.0   178.2   61.2
   471.30   5600   65.56   24.3   13.5   470.69   5600   117.3   1410.0   1230.0   470.99   191.7   203.0   172.9   56.5
   472.21   5680   84.39   24.7   15.8   471.60   5600   105.3   1590.0   1290.0   471.91   191.7   203.0   177.4   69.0
   473.10   5720   44.72   22.0   18.0   472.51   5640   119.5   1490.0   1250.0   472.81   191.7   201.5   162.4   62.0
   474.02   5840   51.69   22.4   13.5   473.42   5880   95.5   1450.0   1180.0   473.71   191.7   201.5   149.6   67.5
   474.93   5800   50.17   22.0   18.8   474.32   5800   115.0   1460.0   1200.0   474.61   191.7   201.5   157.9   62.7
   475.83   5880   52.22   22.4   18.8   475.23   5840   97.7   1460.0   1190.0   475.52   191.7   201.5   149.6   69.0
   476.74   5960   49.19   22.4   18.0   476.13   5920   97.0   1500.0   1180.0   476.42   191.7   201.5   164.7   71.4

My n75 is working, we can see duty doing the job and the boost decreasing. I guess.
The weird thing: this log was made in 3th gear WOT like you told me to do. This entire time I'm pressing the gas to the floor and you can see the throtle angle closing down... The boost is cutting because of throttle cut.

The car is running good until 4krpm, and then it "chokes" and it's really hard to get to 6k+ rpm. Any clue?
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2003 1.8T AUQ @ 06A906032HP - k04/e05 20psi - 317cc @ 4.5fpr - K&N @ stock box - ceramic clutch - 18" tsw wheels @ yoko's 235/45/18 @ eibach lowered springs

deka's 870cc in on the way down... boost wait for me Wink
airtite
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« Reply #136 on: May 17, 2012, 06:57:37 AM »

is this a stock map? Your requested boost looks fairly high for a stock map.
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airtite
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« Reply #137 on: May 17, 2012, 06:58:40 AM »

also please attach the csv next time makes it easier to read
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azaiats
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« Reply #138 on: May 17, 2012, 09:48:12 AM »

Nope, still my "tuned" file that I'm working on it.
I'm fighting with me7logger... it's blowing up an error randomly... can't log things right yet.

Did a little run and logged the pieces when the car "chokes". CondLambdaForPartProtection (B_lambts) and CondEGTForPartProtection (B_tabgbts) are both triggered (1). But I guess these 2 things only affects my fueling.

My car has no misfires and I can't see any ignition retard due knocking. Both values show as 0's. Knock voltages are below 10V. These can be wrong in higher RPM's, but for now still can't pass 4000rpm without the car "choke".

The problem stills the Throttle that cut's while my gas pedal still's 100%. Maybe the problem is MAP? I'm for sure hitting boosts near MAP limit (2550)...
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2003 1.8T AUQ @ 06A906032HP - k04/e05 20psi - 317cc @ 4.5fpr - K&N @ stock box - ceramic clutch - 18" tsw wheels @ yoko's 235/45/18 @ eibach lowered springs

deka's 870cc in on the way down... boost wait for me Wink
nyet
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« Reply #139 on: May 17, 2012, 10:38:00 AM »

So have you read the s4wiki article on throttle cut?
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

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littco
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« Reply #140 on: May 17, 2012, 12:52:54 PM »

Rpm 4480

Actual boost exceeds requested by more than 300mbar! Throttle cut triggered as a result.
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airtite
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« Reply #141 on: May 18, 2012, 12:41:03 AM »

my suggestion is load your stock map and make sure you have no issues ie no throttle cut etc that way you will know whether its hardware or not
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azaiats
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« Reply #142 on: May 18, 2012, 08:13:21 AM »

Thanks for the right path nyet. Now I see that my boost are getting over 24psi (MAP limit) and I really need to be carefull (uncontrolled boost)...

Thanks artite that point me to load original file and make things right without raising boost. You told me this twice. This is what need to be done in first place at all. Now I see this clearly.

My turbo is a k04/e05, and my original car PID is trying to deal with k03s wastegate. This is the problem. K04/e05 is based on k04-001 with k04-020 internals (TT225 one). So guess what I did: copied TT225 PID maps and did a little bit of math (because the maps axis values isn't the same), and tchadám: the car PID is now working fine with "original boost maps". The N75 cycle is doing fine and the ECU can cantrol boost fine now. The car is smooth until 6000rpm now.

But another things happened Smiley The ECU is throwing DTC: 17963 Charge Pressure: Maximum Limit Exceeded and the logs still showing that past 4000rpm the car is lowering the boost request and the N75 is working to decrease boost (without throttle cut), even LDRXN and KFMIRL remaped asking 22PSI. Now it's time to read more info...
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2003 1.8T AUQ @ 06A906032HP - k04/e05 20psi - 317cc @ 4.5fpr - K&N @ stock box - ceramic clutch - 18" tsw wheels @ yoko's 235/45/18 @ eibach lowered springs

deka's 870cc in on the way down... boost wait for me Wink
azaiats
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« Reply #143 on: May 18, 2012, 11:55:28 AM »

Hey guys, attached is a 4th gear WOT log I did right now... can't go far 4800rpm because the road ended... For now it's what I can do.
You can see that in 3600RPM my requested boost start to decrease, and this is the problem. I really doesn't know why it's requesting less...

Attached is my LDRXN and KFMIRL. I'm trying to request 2500mbar ( ~ 22psi) past 4000rpm, so I really doesn't understand what I'm doing wrong now... The throttle is cutting again because I'm delivering too much more boost (I known, that's the idea now... I don't want to tweak PID again, because this loweringin request boot isn't what I desire).

LDRXNZK is exact copy of LDRXN. I have FF'd KFDLULS. KFLDHBN is FF's too. 
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2003 1.8T AUQ @ 06A906032HP - k04/e05 20psi - 317cc @ 4.5fpr - K&N @ stock box - ceramic clutch - 18" tsw wheels @ yoko's 235/45/18 @ eibach lowered springs

deka's 870cc in on the way down... boost wait for me Wink
nyet
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« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2012, 02:39:06 PM »

that is NOT a csv, it is a cut and paste from excel.

Please attach an unedited csv with full headers.

Also, don't bother with VCDS, you're not going to be able to do any real further tuning w/o a proper logger
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 02:40:52 PM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
azaiats
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« Reply #145 on: May 18, 2012, 03:05:34 PM »

nyet: nefmoto logger neither me7logger are running fine here... I guess my obd2 bus is high loaded... the log starts and then both softwares stops at random... lost comunications I guess... :/ I'll try ECUx and see what happens.

Attached .xls now...
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2003 1.8T AUQ @ 06A906032HP - k04/e05 20psi - 317cc @ 4.5fpr - K&N @ stock box - ceramic clutch - 18" tsw wheels @ yoko's 235/45/18 @ eibach lowered springs

deka's 870cc in on the way down... boost wait for me Wink
nyet
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« Reply #146 on: May 18, 2012, 04:16:13 PM »

Not an xls either. the original csv please.

ecuxplot can only read real csvs, since there is no telling what people do to their xls' before they save them.

In any case, make getting a real logger working a priority.

Also, 3rd gear is fine, although 4th might be easier if you are only trying to log ramp.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
nyet
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« Reply #147 on: May 18, 2012, 04:18:39 PM »

Hey guys, attached is a 4th gear WOT log I did right now... can't go far 4800rpm because the road ended... For now it's what I can do.
You can see that in 3600RPM my requested boost start to decrease, and this is the problem. I really doesn't know why it's requesting less...

Attached is my LDRXN and KFMIRL. I'm trying to request 2500mbar ( ~ 22psi) past 4000rpm, so I really doesn't understand what I'm doing wrong now... The throttle is cutting again because I'm delivering too much more boost (I known, that's the idea now... I don't want to tweak PID again, because this loweringin request boot isn't what I desire).

LDRXNZK is exact copy of LDRXN. I have FF'd KFDLULS. KFLDHBN is FF's too. 

Your LDRXN is ridiculously high at low rpms.

Please read up on positive deviation.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
azaiats
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« Reply #148 on: May 19, 2012, 09:14:09 AM »

Found the problem with loggers.... my notebook is a IBM/Lenovo with an accelerometer who stops the HD when the latptop shakes. Disabled this feature and the logger runs fine.
Attached the first log I did to try, so no long WOT's... just a test.

Found 2 problems in my car: EGT sensor probably broken, because always displaying 1035C and coolant temps getting so high that the corrected load decreases (causing my requested boosts to drop). The car is cutting throttle when temp gets high and then when it runs from 100 throttle to 30 (cutting throttle to decrease too much boost) the KFMIRL map get's in place and try to get my load even down (max load at 30% is very low) causing the choke's.

Will fix these 2 issues before trying any more mods on the maps/ECU.

btw, loaded this file on ECUx plot and your tool is really great!

Please if you have comments, feel free Smiley
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2003 1.8T AUQ @ 06A906032HP - k04/e05 20psi - 317cc @ 4.5fpr - K&N @ stock box - ceramic clutch - 18" tsw wheels @ yoko's 235/45/18 @ eibach lowered springs

deka's 870cc in on the way down... boost wait for me Wink
azaiats
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« Reply #149 on: May 20, 2012, 07:19:12 AM »

Another lesson learned: you will never play nice with stock injectors Smiley No matter what turbocharger you`re talking about, fueling is the first thing to increase before increase boost Smiley

The temperature problem was because my car is running extremely lean with high boosts (Thanks to ECUx plot I can see this clearly). Injector duty cycles extremely high. Did a run with 1.2bar max and I can go far to 6000rpm without chokes, but again, the car start to starving out at 4.5k and throttle cut at 6k. Sincerely, now I can see this things and I`m wondering again about the tuners I paid to get my car chipped and they never told me this stuff... what a pirates. Owwwww. Increase boost and let the sponge bob play!


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2003 1.8T AUQ @ 06A906032HP - k04/e05 20psi - 317cc @ 4.5fpr - K&N @ stock box - ceramic clutch - 18" tsw wheels @ yoko's 235/45/18 @ eibach lowered springs

deka's 870cc in on the way down... boost wait for me Wink
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