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Author Topic: B6 A4 1.8t F21 FT - See logs  (Read 20452 times)
lphsail21
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« on: September 04, 2017, 12:49:42 AM »

Hello,
I've been reading NefMoto as much as possible so I can tune my own file. However I have a GIAC stage1 tune installed which is preventing me from reading/writing anything to the ECU. I running a Frankenturbo F21 which seems to be producing way too much boost and airflow for the current tune. I need to ground the pin and try reading/flashing in boot mode.

Anyways, more details about the car:
- ECU 8E0909518AK 0261208230 1037368072 0003 1.8L R4/5VT (AMB engine)
- Frankenturbo F21 including high flow manifold, turbo inlet pipe, test pipe, front mount, diverter valve, etc..
- 386cc injectors, stock maf+housing, GIAC stage 1 tune

Could someone please look at the logs and let me know if the fueling/ignition/temps I recorded are within reason? I am asking because the frankenturbo makes so much airflow and power that the motor instantly detonates or knocks when the boost spike hits even on part throttle. The GIAC tune boosts to 26psi and tapers down to 22psi which is murder on the engine right now. I've adjusted the boost to 10psi until I can figure out what the problem is, but looking at the logs I'm not sure if it's safe enough to do a full WOT pull to redline. I don't think that the GIAC tune is even designed for the 386cc injectors and the maps are only meant for k03s, so I need some input ASAP.

If anyone could give me input in regards to lean/rich AFR and timing/fueling that would be great.

Best wishes!
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nyet
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 12:52:57 AM »

You are insane to be running that file with the wrong injectors.
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lphsail21
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 12:56:26 AM »

Here is a CPUxPlot representation of the logs I posted.
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lphsail21
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 12:59:57 AM »

Also, I managed to dump a copy of the stock ECU before it was crippled with the GIAC tune. I have attached the full ECU BIN in case anyone needs it!

Thanks!
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_nameless
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 06:04:25 AM »

Also, I managed to dump a copy of the stock ECU before it was crippled with the GIAC tune. I have attached the full ECU BIN in case anyone needs it!

Thanks!
Your car has returnless fueling meaning you are going to need larger injectors for that turbo like 630, 550s or larger. You are ruunning out of fuel the way you sit right now boosting 26psi on the tt injectors. So to do this setup proper youll need a larger maf (tt 225 or vr6) housing. Youll need larger injectors or convert to return fueling for overhead. The stock nap sensor only sees max 22-23psi so boosting over that the ecu has no idea how much pressure its seeing it just pins it at 23psi. With sll thr other stuff you got going on right now you can easally launch a rod threw your block. Until you get a better understanding of efi and form a plain to tune your car id just run wastegate spring pressure so your internals stsy in your engine
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lphsail21
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2017, 10:22:35 AM »

Your car has returnless fueling meaning you are going to need larger injectors for that turbo like 630, 550s or larger. You are ruunning out of fuel the way you sit right now boosting 26psi on the tt injectors. So to do this setup proper youll need a larger maf (tt 225 or vr6) housing. Youll need larger injectors or convert to return fueling for overhead. The stock nap sensor only sees max 22-23psi so boosting over that the ecu has no idea how much pressure its seeing it just pins it at 23psi. With sll thr other stuff you got going on right now you can easally launch a rod threw your block. Until you get a better understanding of efi and form a plain to tune your car id just run wastegate spring pressure so your internals stsy in your engine

Thanks so much for the info. I have taken a few measures to keep things from blowing up while I wait for new Bosh EV14 750cc injectors and new MAF + 3" housing.
1. I have setup a boost controller along with the N75 and limited it to 20psi max. I've also set the tune to spike at 20psi max and hold boost at 15psi max.
2. I've switched fuel to 100% E85 and adjusted the primary/secondary fuel enrichment channels so the injector duty cycles are at 100% and flowing as much fuel as possible.
3. I've retarded the ignition timing angle additive offset by -3.75 degrees and logged AFR+knock sensor voltage to make sure there is proper fuel under all boost conditions.

If someone could please take a look at my new log files with these adjustments that would be great. The motor is running extremely smooth and knock-free now.

Thanks again for the help!
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 10:50:19 AM »

Plot RPM on the x axis and enable the filter.

I would not drive this car, period.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
lphsail21
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 12:16:35 AM »

Plot RPM on the x axis and enable the filter.

I would not drive this car, period.

Thanks so much for getting back to me. I understand that it's very stupid to drive a car that's detonating on the wrong tune with a big turbo and wrong injectors, but I had to do whatever I could so I could at least limp it around with a safe air/fuel ratio at low RPMs.

Also I'm having some trouble plotting the chart with RPM on the X axis and turning on the filters. Could you please let me know what variables you'd like on what axis? I believe the chart is a little incomplete because I was logging regular driving and not WOT pulls.

Thanks again and please let me know how it looks.
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_nameless
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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 04:22:53 AM »

Thanks so much for the info. I have taken a few measures to keep things from blowing up while I wait for new Bosh EV14 750cc injectors and new MAF + 3" housing.
1. I have setup a boost controller along with the N75 and limited it to 20psi max. I've also set the tune to spike at 20psi max and hold boost at 15psi max.
2. I've switched fuel to 100% E85 and adjusted the primary/secondary fuel enrichment channels so the injector duty cycles are at 100% and flowing as much fuel as possible.
3. I've retarded the ignition timing angle additive offset by -3.75 degrees and logged AFR+knock sensor voltage to make sure there is proper fuel under all boost conditions.

If someone could please take a look at my new log files with these adjustments that would be great. The motor is running extremely smooth and knock-free now.

Thanks again for the help!

Omg what are you doing?! Your injectors are too small for your turbo on petrol but yet your running e85 Huh. You can not just switch tou need 40% more fuel whem running e85 to reach lambda of 1 vs petrol. Really you need to take a step back before you blow your car up. Id hate to see what your exhaust valves look like at this point
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_nameless
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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2017, 04:25:13 AM »

Using leminiwinks or unisettings is crap.
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nyet
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2017, 10:50:14 AM »

Thanks so much for the info. I have taken a few measures to keep things from blowing up while I wait for new Bosh EV14 750cc injectors and new MAF + 3" housing.

Pure insanity. How on EARTH will this prevent you from grenading your motor?
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ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
lphsail21
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2017, 06:01:25 PM »

Pure insanity. How on EARTH will this prevent you from grenading your motor?

Why the hostility?

I've retarded timing all around, lowered boost from 28psi to 13psi max, tweaked fueling to 100% injector duty cycle under high engine load and mass airflow conditions, lowered redline to 4200rpm.

Then I logged AFR/lambda and confirmed it's at stoich and tapering more rich to around 12.6 AFR under boost and checked IAT/EGT, knock, ignition retard, and misfire events under all these new conditions.

So please enlighten me, how will I throw a rod given these conditions?
I've eliminated all harmful conditions I could see from the logs by doing these tweaks.

Thanks
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_nameless
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 06:37:52 PM »

386cc injectors are hardly large enough to max out a stock turbo on pump gas. E85 takes on about 40% more fuel flow for the same lambda value as pump gas. Si you have s larger then stock turbo with injectors tjat are too small anddd youre running a fuel that requires 40% more flow.... see now. Also you max out a stock maf with that turbo too. Plus all the other stuff i said before
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lphsail21
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 05:50:43 PM »

Thanks for your input. I have made several more changes and the car is running absolutely great (compared to before).

I removed the GIAC tune via boot mode due to their ecusafe protection and flashed my own custom bin that's based off the information I found in the Stage 1 community project B6 A4 tune thread. I was able to compensate for the injectors, control desired boost via n75 and wg duty cycles, fix the lambda to a progressive range 0.92-0.77 during WOT under boost (it's ok?), retard and advance timing as needed, and bump up the BTS values a bit.

I still have a few questions that I need help figuring out:
1. I notice that the ECU will not read above 2554mbar (exactly) of boost pressure (minus 1000mbar for atmospheric pressure), so around 1.5bar of boost. Is this the limit of the MAF itself or the MAF housing, or some other software variable I'm not aware of?
2. What is te maximum airflow in terms of grams/sec that the ECU will read? Or is the limit purely based on the MAF readings?+--
3. Is my AFR of 0.92-0.77 safe? It starts with 0.92 at 6psi and ramps up to 0.77 by 19psi at redline in a lin``ear fashion.
4. Is the injector duty cycle the best variable to monitor if I want to determine whether any are running at their maximum flow capacity?
5. I am having trouble with massive boost spikes during the initial onset of boost or during high wastegate duty cycles. The actual boost is following desired very well except for this massive spike which is triggering overboost conditions as well as MAF signal too high (over 22psi).  Is there a way to tune the ECU as to prevent these spikes? Or do I need to either use a boost controller, remove the n75, or adjust the wastegate? Any chance it's a hardware problem? If so, how can I check?

Thanks a lot for all the help
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_nameless
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 06:58:40 PM »

Thanks for your input. I have made several more changes and the car is running absolutely great (compared to before).

I removed the GIAC tune via boot mode due to their ecusafe protection and flashed my own custom bin that's based off the information I found in the Stage 1 community project B6 A4 tune thread. I was able to compensate for the injectors, control desired boost via n75 and wg duty cycles, fix the lambda to a progressive range 0.92-0.77 during WOT under boost (it's ok?), retard and advance timing as needed, and bump up the BTS values a bit.

I still have a few questions that I need help figuring out:
1. I notice that the ECU will not read above 2554mbar (exactly) of boost pressure (minus 1000mbar for atmospheric pressure), so around 1.5bar of boost. Is this the limit of the MAF itself or the MAF housing, or some other software variable I'm not aware of?
2. What is te maximum airflow in terms of grams/sec that the ECU will read? Or is the limit purely based on the MAF readings?+--
3. Is my AFR of 0.92-0.77 safe? It starts with 0.92 at 6psi and ramps up to 0.77 by 19psi at redline in a lin``ear fashion.
4. Is the injector duty cycle the best variable to monitor if I want to determine whether any are running at their maximum flow capacity?
5. I am having trouble with massive boost spikes during the initial onset of boost or during high wastegate duty cycles. The actual boost is following desired very well except for this massive spike which is triggering overboost conditions as well as MAF signal too high (over 22psi).  Is there a way to tune the ECU as to prevent these spikes? Or do I need to either use a boost controller, remove the n75, or adjust the wastegate? Any chance it's a hardware problem? If so, how can I check?

Thanks a lot for all the help
Imx and drl for boost control pull some out where you have issue
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