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Author Topic: what is wrong with my car\tune ? (log inside)  (Read 27903 times)
Leon Mk1
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« on: January 11, 2012, 06:10:19 AM »

Hello
My car is a Seat Leon mk1
mods are
gt30 ar.82
tubular exhuast mani
Tial 38mm external wg
siemens 630cc
stock large port intake mani
stock large port head
W\M Injection with 50\50 mix set to: start 0.5bar, full 2.0bar
stock tb
large fuel rail+Fuelab AFPR set to 3.0 bar fuel pressure
NEW walbro 255 intank fuel pump
local tuner chip with maf

the car problem:
at wot from low rpm to rev limit (7.5K) my o2 lambda always adding fuel as you can see in this log.
this log is at 3rd gear and with only 19psi.
also some times at 7k to 7.5k rpm my air\fuel ratio goes from 12-12.3 to 13-14-15---(aem wideband)
and then i Takes the foot off the Pedal.
i bought a new fuel pump and checked the fuel pressure while i did this log,it was ok, about 63psi from 5k rpm and stays untill red line.
my idle is fine,also at cruising the a\f is about 14.7
my fuel trims in block 032 are 3.4 and 2.7

what could be the problem ?
tnx

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avo75N3TmrVrdFZ0N2cxNGo5b0pXa1MyUXZESDR5cnc&hl=en_US#gid=0
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TTQS
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 06:22:26 AM »

Firstly, your spreadsheet can't be accessed because it's asking for a login ID and password.

Secondly, it's going to be difficult to diagnose without some detailed information on which parameters in your ECU have been recalibrated, how and why. You've got a variety of physical modifications which will require a number of different recalibrations. Is this a custom tune or an off-the-shelf remap?

To get to the bottom of this, you'll probably need to supply us or a diagnostic expert with a lot more information, such as what was changed in your ECU code and why, and some extensive logs during WOT pulls, ideally with a multi-variable logger like the one developed by setzi on here. Otherwise, it's just going to be educated guesswork

Which country are you based in? Do you have any knowledge of chiptuning or diagnostics? Just so we can get a handle on what you can do yourself to help.

TTQS
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 11:57:55 AM by TTQS » Logged
createddeleted
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 09:36:22 AM »

fix the spreadsheet!!
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3


« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 11:41:43 AM »

We will need to see the tune on your ECU I think.
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Leon Mk1
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 07:45:14 AM »

this is a custom tune.
i do have some knowledge about chip tune and how to do logs,but its basic knowledge.
i tried once to read my ecu with the Nefmoto software but the file is protected so i guess i need to do a bench flash
i wish i had all the tools for a bench flash,i only have the obd2 cable.
in the log file you can see that the injector duty cycle is pretty low
so i thought maybe there is any map that i can change to open the injectors a bit more.
i hope this log help a little bit
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Tifon
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 08:32:26 AM »

In your log seems that you go to 7200rpm, then lift throttle and then again wot.
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TTQS
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 09:18:43 AM »

this is a custom tune.
in the log file you can see that the injector duty cycle is pretty low

Hi. I presume you can't just go back to the tuner and ask them to sort out the problem? I.e., you bought the car with that tune on it rather than having it done yourself? Do you know who did the remap and what mods have been done after it was put on. Again, where are you based? If U.K., there are plenty of good, reputable remappers who will sort this out for you.

Secondly, your log is only showing injector on time, not IDC. To get from injector on time to IDC, you need to apply the following formula in your spreadsheet:

100*(ms/((2*60*1000)/rpm))

where ms is your injector on-time in milliseconds from your raw log and rpm is obviously engine speed.

Any chance you could get setzi's logger working on your car then run some logs with that? See the following thread for details:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=837.msg7054#msg7054

Since you can't flash off your ECU image because it's write-protected, you will need to find the original ECU image for your car if you don't already have one. Can you post up some details of your vehicle (e.g. model year & original spec so at least we can find the ECU part # on ETKA).

I've attached a sample config file for ME7logger (assuming your car is actually ME7) with 25 basic logging variables. If and when you find your ECU image, just edit the line which refers to my details (Audi TT 1.8T BFV 240 PS 8N0 906 018 CA 0261208086 375111.ecu) and paste in the reference to your ECU image.

TTQS
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 09:25:56 AM by TTQS » Logged
Leon Mk1
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 12:16:59 PM »

i hope you saw the lambda actual and requested in the log
i'm not from UK
i can return to my tuner at any time to make changes
at first i had 550CC injectors and stock fuel rail with 3bar fpr with small port head
the O2 was much better but the IDC was high as 100%+
i changed the head to big port with intake mani (all stock intenals)
also changes to 630cc seimens and big fuel rail with afpr and since than the IDC went lower but the o2 adding fuel in high numbers and my actual AFR is pretty lean until its jump out the target

neither me and my tuner don't really know what is the map that need to be tweaked and we both very busy now.
(if the problem is the tune and not with the car).
i still want to check and do log without W\M injection,and also raise a bit the fuel pressuer.
i did the calculation for IDC,i have a simple tool for it and as i say my IDC is pretty low at this log.
my ECU part number is 032HN
i really want to know how to use this data logger but i didnt understand how to, i will read again the link you shard and i hope to find out how to use it, i have 2 OBD cables
one is the cheap one from ebay that used for unisettings, and second is newer that works with VCDS 912

tnx for the help
very Appreciate it
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 12:28:54 PM by Leon Mk1 » Logged
carlossus
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Leon Curpa Stg1+


« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 02:54:37 PM »

I have the same car / ECU. I'll try to post my ME7L config for you tomorrow.

Regarding your tune, sounds to me you need to start from the beginning and ensure your base MAF and injector timings are accurate for your hardware. Otherwise you could be forever chasing symptoms from one map to another.
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TTQS
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 03:28:18 PM »

Carl will help you out. Handy that you have the same car.

Since you're making changes to fuel injectors and FPR, I'll ask the 'obvious': is your tuner recalibrating KRKTE & TVUB correctly to take account of these changes? Intake manifold changes could affect KISRM. This is fundamental stuff before anyone starts trying to diagnose your ignition angle advance and requested load profiles, etc.

The statement that your tuner doesn't know the "map to be tweaked" worries me. He either knows what he's doing and then it's reasonable to read protect his code or he doesn't and it should be free for you to read, analyse and work on yourself. It's going to be difficult for anyone to help without knowing what the current status of your tune is.

TTQS
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 02:04:50 AM by TTQS » Logged
Leon Mk1
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 11:18:28 PM »

After i made the change of the big port head,intake mani,afpr,fuel rail and injectors
i didnt returned to the tuner Because the car worked fine at idle and cruise
so i thought it will be good at wot, also i just did a full engine rebuild and running the engine easy for about 1K km.
and just now started to do some logs.
my tuner is a good one,but works on some other stuff so is pretty busy, i need to go to him and make the changes
i'm sure he will know what to do at the end,In the meantime i thought maybe i'll learn by myself with the help of this forum
so now i know to tell my tuner to check KRKTE and KISRM.
KRKTE is the injector constant ? if so its should be 0.044923 at 4bar ? how can i calculate it for 3bar, 3.5bar ?
injector constant is only for injectors ? or its depend on other mods as turbo manifolds etc ??
what is KISRM ?
tnx again

*EDIT*
did some searches and readings at the last two hours
i know that i can tweak block 032 in vcds with the unisettings (primery and secondary fuel)
actually i made some changes and got 3.4 and 2.7 values
if KRKTE is Related to the second block my value should be good (injector constant )
maybe its the first block ? (3.4) this one Related to Battery voltage compensation ? (TVUB) ?
I Am all confused now


« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 12:50:40 AM by Leon Mk1 » Logged
TTQS
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 02:12:30 AM »

Hi.

There is a section on recalibrating KRKTE in the document on the link below but can't remember whether TVUB is mentioned. The battery voltage compensation curve should be with the injector spec sheet. I should imagine your tuner would know both of these, but first rule of diagnostics is never assume anything.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=62.msg3330

KISRM is integrator constant for the intake manifold model and takes into accout engine displacement and intake volume from throttle body to inlet valves. The expression for calculating it is on the wiki. This should only be affected if there is a difference in volume between the stock intake manifold and aftermarket one.

http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/wiki/index.php/BGSRM_17.10_(Cylinder_Charge_Detection,_Intake_Manifold_Model)

These factors might not be the problem, they're just what occurred to me because I've looked into them a bit. We've had quite a few questions about calibrating KRKTE that it's the first thing I usually ask about!  Wink

TTQS
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 08:35:56 AM by TTQS » Logged
Leon Mk1
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 02:38:39 AM »

i understand KRKTE and TVUB.
about KIRSM i changed from stock small port intake mani to stock big port one so i don't think there is much diffrent.
when i will have the time and with a better weather i'll go to my tuner and do the needed changes.
i still have a simple question
does KRKTE can Effect my o2 and lower it from the log i posted ?
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TTQS
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 08:44:57 AM »

KRKTE when correctly calibrated will ensure the injectors are on for the necessary time to inject the amount of fuel to achieve the desired lambda. Overall, it will have to be smaller for larger injectors but if it's not quite right, the ECU will still have to compensate via the multiplicative or LTFT.

Have you checked for leaks in the charge air system and ancillary systems which use pressurised air and vacuum, e.g. N75 acutuation via N249? If you're losing air that has been metered and accounted for by the ECU, your LTFT will make the appropriate adjustments. Do you have good quality silicon aftermarket hoses or are you using mostly old, OEM rubber?

Again, I'm probably insulting your intelligence by asking the basic questions, but this is where I would start. Sorry, I didn't really think about the magnitude and sign of your trims. They didn't seem too bad (i.e. multiplicative << 10%) so maybe neither of these factors are the issue?

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/fuel-trim.html

The Ross Tech wiki also suggests "an out-of-spec value in the second field (multiplicative) [in block 032] indicates a fault at higher RPM, and may point to a faulty MAF." If this might be the issue, take the MAF meter out of its housing and give it a good clean with a volatile solvent that doesn't leave a residue, e.g. aerosol-based brake and clutch cleaner.

What peak figures are your expecting on that hardware configuration? 236 g/s equates to 295 bhp which is pretty good for the 1.8T but I would have thought 320+ bhp is possible on a big turbo?

We need to see some WOT pulls with setzi's ME7logger.

TTQS
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 08:52:42 AM by TTQS » Logged
TTQS
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 08:55:10 AM »

Have you done a DTC scan with VCDS? I presume it's clear?

TTQS
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 08:57:20 AM by TTQS » Logged
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