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Author Topic: Volvo Spec load, requested load, and actual load and boost (logs)  (Read 5636 times)
clubman
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Bringing up this topic as I have a question. I see my % torque being capped for some reason and the following question arises?

What is the real sequence of driver to final air cylinder charge?

From my understanding the following occur:
1. KFPED->Torque request
2. KFMIOP->Finds the right cell for air charge
3. KFMIRL->Finds the right cell for torque and checks with KFMIOP for toque intervension
4. LDRXN-> If max air charge is allowed ok, else capped.

Questions:
Is it 1,2,3,4 or 1,3,2,4? When LDRXN limits, does it checks first through KMFIOP or KFMIRL?

My issue is that I get limited load, less than LDRXN and what should come from IRL/IOP values.

Example: LDRXN 130

KFMIOP last 3 rows
80.00   31.80   32.68   34.82   35.80   36.54   36.98   36.94   37.79   38.19   38.35   38.16   38.33   38.55   38.48   38.81   38.83
100.00   38.50   41.07   43.99   44.77   45.76   46.69   46.91   47.51   47.60   48.04   47.47   47.97   48.10   48.09   47.97   47.94
139.99   56.61   60.45   64.37   65.84   66.85   67.85   68.55   69.36   69.51   69.76   69.23   70.89   72.80   72.96   73.69   73.30

KFMIRL last 3 rows (yes max is 70%)
60.00   159.02   147.07   137.32   133.69   131.44   129.23   127.78   126.12   125.84   125.23   126.38   125.86   125.77   126.12   126.02   126.05
65.00   172.27   159.33   148.76   144.82   142.41   139.99   138.38   136.57   136.24   135.80   136.90   136.62   136.57   137.06   136.83   136.83
70.00   185.53   171.59   160.20   155.95   153.35   150.77   149.02   147.07   146.72   146.23   147.42   147.12   147.09   147.61   147.35   147.35

At 5500rpm
KFMIOP has values 48.1 and 81.02 for 100 and 139.99 respectively. So result for 130 should be 66.62.
KFMIRL has values 136.57 and 147.09 so for 66.62 result would be 138.937, way more than my "desired" 130.

But I get only around 62-64 torque and 124 air charge. KFLDHBN has high values from stock like 3.200 and KFTARX is 1.0000 everywhere except .856 at the very last row. Car not overheating and IAT around 18C.

To my understanding, LDRXN should cap the 138.9 to 130, then feed that to KFMIOP or KFMIRL. Either way the result is higher than 130 so I don't know what is limiting my air charge but if I knew the real path I could investigate better.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 09:39:34 AM by clubman » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 12:32:41 PM »

LDRXN is used both ways (iirc)

It is sent to KFMIOP to generate a torque limit, which limits the req torque (from KFPED) sent in to irl

then, when req torque is sent to irl (perhaps limited by the ldrxn->iop limit), it is converted to load, then capped *again* by LDRXN

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clubman
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 03:49:40 AM »

Thank you Nyet. So we don't know for sure what is the sequence.. The thing is that it doesn't make any sense to limit load to 123-124 like it does..

Is there any map that has to do with lamda and combustion effectiveness? My only guess is that those values are for lamda 1 and if I use lamda 0.85 for example it maybe caps the load and that's the problem.. Like, we have 138 for lamda 1, capped to 130 via LDRXN. If lamda was 0.8, would it get even more capped? Like a factor for load regarding lamda different to 1..
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 10:11:39 AM »

Thank you Nyet. So we don't know for sure what is the sequence..

No, we do, it is outlined in the FR.

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Tuning_KFMIOP_and_KFMIZUFIL

Log mifa (or misolv), mimax, mibas, miszul and mizsolv and you can see the torque monitoring plainly.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 10:14:27 AM by nyet » Logged

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contrast
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 10:54:38 AM »

No, we do, it is outlined in the FR.

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Tuning_KFMIOP_and_KFMIZUFIL

Log mifa (or misolv), mimax, mibas, miszul and mizsolv and you can see the torque monitoring plainly.

I can tell you that on Volvos the variables you mentioned do not work as written in the Wiki.
It is all very different. The torque structure is different to VAG ME7.
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 10:58:40 AM »

I can tell you that on Volvos the variables you mentioned do not work as written in the Wiki.
It is all very different. The torque structure is different to VAG ME7.

Yes, the s4 wiki (and this discussion) is specific to VAG ME7.1/ME7.5
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 11:24:58 AM »

Yes, the s4 wiki (and this discussion) is specific to VAG ME7.1/ME7.5

Yes, I know that Smiley
However clubman, I belive, is tuning an ME7 Volvo, hence my comment.
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nyet
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 11:57:43 AM »

Sigh. Thread split accordingly.
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clubman
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 01:20:55 AM »

Yes, it is a Volvo, torque model should be the same but by experience I can say it is not.. Something is definately capping and it is not LDRXN..

Can someone tell me what indicates "Desired Boost?" Which variable/map is it?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 01:29:33 AM by clubman » Logged
contrast
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 02:12:45 AM »

plsol_w
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clubman
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 09:36:47 AM »

That's good info contrast, thank you!

So which map should I investigate, can you give me a small guidance?

I attach a datalog from a datalogger I've made. Some variables are not perfectly lined up as the CAN response rate is slow (256) but you get the picture. Sheet 2 has less variables and faster refresh rate..
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 03:07:10 PM »

There is no map that outputs plsol. The path is described in S4 Wiki and also in FR.
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