Tirbsi
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« on: March 22, 2018, 05:54:25 AM »
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Hi,
I'm trying to do a manual conversion of a 4.2 ABZ Engine.
The engine is mounted together with an 01E 2.5TDI gearbox as a mid engine in a Countach Replica.
The first run was really creepy, as the ECU seems to miss the TCU.
The idea was to use the S6+ software (4D0907557H). The relevant differences are in my opinion the injectors and the MAF.
The injectors are 180cc/min (A8) to 199cc/min (S6). This should be not an issue.
But I did not find any information about the MAF.
Therefore I tried to find the linearization map in the dataset.
I searched for a 16bit 256*1 map that has a linear increase of values.
This seems to be start at 0x08AD4 for the 4D0907557H. And at 0x08778 for the 4D090755B.
Is this assumption correct?
If yes, the question would be, why are the max values of the A8 only half of the S6 values? (1066h to 25C4h)
As I have no experience with M5.4.1, could somebody please push me in the right direction?
I read something about a "maptable". What is it, and does it help me?
Best regards,
Patrick
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hopsis
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 09:40:37 PM »
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I know that this is a DIY forum but I have to ask... If You were a monumental cock back in the day, You could order an A8 with a 2.5 TDI + 6MT (even with FWD  ) Why not just use the ecu from one of those? As to the differences between ABZ and AHK, well there are a few other things too besides injectors and maf. Valve gear is completely different, cr is way higher, cams are different, exhaust and intake manifolds are different, tb is probably different (not sure about this though). |
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« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 09:51:02 PM by hopsis »
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Tirbsi
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2018, 03:03:13 AM »
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hopsis
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2018, 04:49:29 AM »
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Yeah sorry, don't know what I was thinking when writing that  Anyway, the A8 was available with ABZ and 6-speed manual. You could just get one of those ecus as a starting point. I bet it would save a lot of hassle. |
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prj
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2018, 02:36:50 PM »
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Yeah sorry, don't know what I was thinking when writing that Anyway, the A8 was available with ABZ and 6-speed manual. You could just get one of those ecus as a starting point. I bet it would save a lot of hassle. There was no A8 with a V8 engine EVER available with a manual. Just stop. |
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hopsis
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2018, 11:57:59 PM »
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Are You kidding me? Of course there was, my neighbour currently has one. I've done timing belt job to that thing and driven the car myself.
edit: prj was correct. I googled this for a while but all manual D2's were with V6 engines. I went and called the guy as a sanity check. As it turns out, the car is originally a 2.8 V6. At some point somebody has swapped the old 12 valve lump for a 32v 4.2 so that's that, no V8 6MT before S6/S8 came along. I stand corrected.
"Regular" S6 AEC engine has an old distributor style ignition so maybe the AHK/AKH file actually is the best starting point after all.
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« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 12:30:13 AM by hopsis »
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prj
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2018, 04:24:27 AM »
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Are You kidding me? Of course there was, my neighbour currently has one. I've done timing belt job to that thing and driven the car myself.
edit: prj was correct. I googled this for a while but all manual D2's were with V6 engines. I went and called the guy as a sanity check. As it turns out, the car is originally a 2.8 V6. At some point somebody has swapped the old 12 valve lump for a 32v 4.2 so that's that, no V8 6MT before S6/S8 came along. I stand corrected.
"Regular" S6 AEC engine has an old distributor style ignition so maybe the AHK/AKH file actually is the best starting point after all.
Just stop. AEC has Motronic 2.4, this engine has a much newer ECU. You have no idea what you are talking about but you are very vocal for some reason. |
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prj
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2018, 04:26:26 AM »
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The difference between the S6/S8 engines and the ABZ engine also is that the intake manifold has 1 flap on the S6/S8 and 2 flaps on the ABZ.
So you can't really use the S6/S8 software, it won't work right. You need to modify the ABZ.
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hopsis
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2018, 08:57:19 PM »
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Yeah, I'll get my coat and shut up. Here I was thinking that hey, I do own an S6+ for about 10 years now and could have maybe helped if questions arise.
This here type of condescending passive aggressive shit is what kills the conversation and all the learning that would happen from constructive criticism. I'll get back to playing with my legos or eating crayons or whatever I know how to do.
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prj
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2018, 10:49:31 PM »
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Yeah, I'll get my coat and shut up. Here I was thinking that hey, I do own an S6+ for about 10 years now and could have maybe helped if questions arise.
This here type of condescending passive aggressive shit is what kills the conversation and all the learning that would happen from constructive criticism. I'll get back to playing with my legos or eating crayons or whatever I know how to do.
First you recommend the OP to put a diesel ECU on his gasoline engine, then you recommend putting an ECU in with incompatible outputs. Then you suggest some imaginary combination of car exists, that does not. Once I point that out you get pissed? LOL I don't care what you own and how long, I just know you don't own any knowledge whatsoever about this engine's control. Yeah, I'll get my coat and shut up. That'll contribute more than the trolling you've done so far. |
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« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 10:56:06 PM by prj »
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mister t
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2018, 11:31:38 PM »
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First you recommend the OP to put a diesel ECU on his gasoline engine, then you recommend putting an ECU in with incompatible outputs.
Then you suggest some imaginary combination of car exists, that does not.
Once I point that out you get pissed? LOL
I don't care what you own and how long, I just know you don't own any knowledge whatsoever about this engine's control.
That'll contribute more than the trolling you've done so far.
Look, if this is to be a place of learning, people have to be comfortable making mistakes and suggestions which may not be the best solution. You know, prj, hopsis took the time to point out that you were right about his neighbors car and he was willing to eat a bit of Crow for it. But you just ignored all that to proclaim that everything hopsis says is useless. I know it's easy for you to say "well I don't care" as a response. But these kind of things have a way of piling up to the point where you've made enemies with mods and senior members and you can't shrug them off.... But, your call |
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prj
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2018, 06:30:03 AM »
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Look, if this is to be a place of learning, people have to be comfortable making mistakes and suggestions which may not be the best solution.
You know, prj, hopsis took the time to point out that you were right about his neighbors car and he was willing to eat a bit of Crow for it. But you just ignored all that to proclaim that everything hopsis says is useless.
I know it's easy for you to say "well I don't care" as a response. But these kind of things have a way of piling up to the point where you've made enemies with mods and senior members and you can't shrug them off....
But, your call
LOL What's the point of your post? How does it connect with the topic at hand? Oh wait, it doesn't. You're just shitposting. GTFO. For the last time I don't care, don't waste your breath  |
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_nameless
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2018, 06:39:45 AM »
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Look, if this is to be a place of learning, people have to be comfortable making mistakes and suggestions which may not be the best solution.
You know, prj, hopsis took the time to point out that you were right about his neighbors car and he was willing to eat a bit of Crow for it. But you just ignored all that to proclaim that everything hopsis says is useless.
I know it's easy for you to say "well I don't care" as a response. But these kind of things have a way of piling up to the point where you've made enemies with mods and senior members and you can't shrug them off....
But, your call
Whats your point here? Prj has helped many including the op in this thread. Hospis spewed a bunch of nonsense for what attention? NOTHING he posted was relevant or correct info. His passive aggressive response about his neighbors car was uncalled for and totally incorrect. I think youre just sour because of your useless volumetric efficiency post |
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Giving your mom a tuneup
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hopsis
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2018, 09:06:16 PM »
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I'll open this can of worms for the last time, then I shut up for good. I don't mind being wrong or more so, don't mind being corrected when there is reason for that. There clearly was now.
The grudge I have here isn't anything about that. It's about this here forum that has been a perpetually shrinking group of few skilled individuals who speak amongst themselves and piss on anyone below their skill level for making mistakes or asking amateur questions. I think getting some respect for even taking part in the conversation should be in place. Instead I hear "You don't deserve my respect, I don't owe You anything, I know everything, You know nothing, You are nothing, be quiet, peasant".
Do as You wish, I'll get back to only reading these threads and staying silent. Happy flaming, peace out.
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Tirbsi
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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2018, 07:14:41 AM »
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So, back to topic...
PRJ, do you really think it is easier to use the ABZ file for a manual conversion? Do you have some hints of how to start?
I would guess, that even with the 1 stage manifold, the s6+ file is still the better way.
Is there any kind of definiton file for a M.5.4.1 available, which I can use to cross compare?
Last question for my understanding: Is the map, that I have "found" the MAF linearization?
Regards,
Patrick
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