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Author Topic: ME7.1 Hardware Question  (Read 1961 times)
_Adrian_
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« on: April 12, 2018, 08:22:18 PM »

Hello,
Fairly new to this so here I am seeking guidance... Car is a 2001 Audi Allroad with the 2.7T APB engine attached to that "amazing" tiptragic transmission.

Im wondering if anyone has a road map / hardware guide to the 7.1 ECU.
My goal here is to replace the primary O2's with wideband units ( yes im aware that I will need a controller ) and add an octane / ethanol sensor
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 08:44:44 AM »

typically, people will code out the rear o2 sensors and put widebands in the place of the rear.  You can feed the WB signal into the rear o2 sensors for logging purposes.

To try to replace the primary o2 sensors with a wideband wouldn't really benefit you and would likely require a lot of reverse engineering to make lambda control work at WOT as it does in wideband ecus. 
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_Adrian_
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 05:25:00 PM »

I have 3" Catless downpipes on the AR...

Idea was to code out the rears as well as disable the Catalyst Efficiency Monitors and a slight tune to start.

However the idea is to unlock the full potential of the ecu which as much as it sucks that no one has fully figured out the ECU.
I know the GM boys have HPTuners suite that allows you a ton of flexibility and tunability compared to our ECU's which are still a grey area from what i see so far.
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prj
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 01:22:51 AM »

Big plans.
Could you elaborate a little bit on your background? How is your knowledge of assembler?

Also, these ECU's are freely tunable. The full factory descriptions as well as full map descriptions are available.
They are just an order of magnitude more complex than jap and usa ones.
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_Adrian_
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2018, 11:31:14 PM »

Im a certified Automotive service technician with a little over 20 years of experience working on the VW's and Audis owning a fair shar of both over the years. With that being said I have some experience with domestics as well...

Plans for the AR are fairly standard...
I call it Project Stealth Wagon

Drop the tip out and replace it with an 01E, K04/RS6 hybrid turbos, AWE SMIC, AWE bipipe, 2.8L heads and cams, tubular manifolds, list goes on...

My biggest concern is the fuel around here... with extremely cold winters i still want to be able to DD the car. With that being said the fuel quality varies with additives and ethanol content. therefore these options really can make or break an engine out here.

I want to retain the stock EGT's , replace factory primaries with widebands and as mentioned add an octane "self tune" based on fuel rather than swapping ECU's based on fuel type. Tenatively also one of the inputs could be used to switch boost tables between street / track modes.

I know i still have a long way to go and lots to learn...
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 12:11:48 AM »

There is no way you can easily convert ME7.1 to wideband without extensive assembly experience, which you did not mention you had.

Same with the "self tune" based on octane, if you intend to completely rewrite the knock control code.

You'll definitely not be able to alter boost based on octane, unless you are talking about flex fuel.

And then we are back to the first question about assembly.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 12:13:53 AM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Marty
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 05:21:54 AM »

why does everyone think the 2.7t is so legendary? its a 90* wedge shoehorned into a engine bay thats too small. power per footprint is really crappy. i honestly would rather have a vr6t
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prj
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 08:34:53 AM »

Lots of talk then without any clue how the ECU works nor any actual code knowledge.
Good luck.
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_Adrian_
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 01:24:06 PM »

There is no way you can easily convert ME7.1 to wideband without extensive assembly experience, which you did not mention you had.

Same with the "self tune" based on octane, if you intend to completely rewrite the knock control code.

You'll definitely not be able to alter boost based on octane, unless you are talking about flex fuel.

And then we are back to the first question about assembly.

Well... lets disect this:
 
Quote
There is no way you can easily convert ME7.1 to wideband without extensive assembly experience, which you did not mention you had.

 - thats why I'm here to learn and hopefully spark some interest and get a few people on board as more heads are better than 1

Quote
Same with the "self tune" based on octane, if you intend to completely rewrite the knock control code. You'll definitely not be able to alter boost based on octane, unless you are talking about flex fuel

 - idea here is to try and keep fueling in line with ethanol content as every station out here as different "average" range which in fact is sorta like flex fuel. the boost would stay stationary however the timing can be adjusted to be more aggressive. As for altering boost i want to use a unused input to change the boost level to a secondary boost table on the fly.

As far as the coding goes...
I been dabling a little bit but can barelly consider myself as an amateur at best.

As far as the ECU goes i quite versed on the hardware side as I do most of the diagnostic in the shop i work in and undrstand the I/O quite well. My original question was though if anyone has figured out the min/max to every I/O to the ECU and where is it mapped to.
'
Factory ECU's have came a long way and they have more than enough "muscle" than their predecessors when the maps were loaded on ROMS which were soldred in and the ECU's had to be socketed and run emulators like the Ostrich to tune and then burn a coresponding rom for each specific fuel / even that they were competing.
So yes... technology came a long way!

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nyet
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2018, 10:59:56 PM »

If you are comfortable with diassembly and reading the FR, as a beginner you will likely be able to code around enough to find a spare input to use as a wideband signal for logging, and presenting that value to me7logger.

but altering ME7.1 to be wideband would be a nearly impossible task, even for an expert, and for negligible gain.

flex fuel can be done with multi map switching and finding a spare input for the ethanol sensor.

but thats more yes/no than the much bigger question of detecting varying levels of ethanol (vs e85/gasoline detection).
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Marty
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 12:01:40 AM »

Its easy to come up with ideas. When you need others to do the coding for you it will be expensive and if you do some digging youll see youre not the first whos had this thought. Anyone whos able to make such mods surly will not have free time for a open project like this. This isnt romraider
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_Adrian_
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 05:21:40 PM »

If you are comfortable with diassembly and reading the FR, as a beginner you will likely be able to code around enough to find a spare input to use as a wideband signal for logging, and presenting that value to me7logger.

but altering ME7.1 to be wideband would be a nearly impossible task, even for an expert, and for negligible gain.

flex fuel can be done with multi map switching and finding a spare input for the ethanol sensor.

but thats more yes/no than the much bigger question of detecting varying levels of ethanol (vs e85/gasoline detection).

Dissasembly / Coding is a good skill to have... Specially when your messing with your own vehicle your forced to learn quicker and make less mistakes because thats a money out of your pocket LOL

Either Way...
I already have a bench rig ready as well as a Galleto 1260 Cable ( Just in case i FA** it up royally ) and have a pretty solid background in electronics ( have my own reflow oven and hot air station ).
Also bought a spare ECU to mess with...

I guess option B would be to use the simulated narrow band output as primary input and route the wideband signal to the secondaries for logging. I guess for fuel sensor tap a 5V feed from one of the other sensors and use a unused input to feed signal to.

Has anyone messed with speed density tunes on these ECU's ??
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 06:17:15 PM »

I guess option B would be to use the simulated narrow band output as primary input and route the wideband signal to the secondaries for logging. I guess for fuel sensor tap a 5V feed from one of the other sensors and use a unused input to feed signal to.

An alternate solution would be to leave the narrowbands in place and add a wideband bung, or code out the rear o2s and put wideband(s) in the rear bung(s)

Note that ME7.1 doesn't really like simulated narrowband output much. YMMV

Quote
Has anyone messed with speed density tunes on these ECU's ??

Yes, but most that claim to have done so (incorrectly) think alpha-n is the same thing as speed density. True speed density on ME7.1 would be as complex to implement as wideband O2 support.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
_Adrian_
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 07:33:30 PM »

An alternate solution would be to leave the narrowbands in place and add a wideband bung, or code out the rear o2s and put wideband(s) in the rear bung(s)

Note that ME7.1 doesn't really like simulated narrowband output much. YMMV

its not much of a simulation rather than a scalled output of the actual wideband output. I have a pair of LC2'shttps://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.php with the Bosch LSU4.9 sensors waiting to go in...


Quote
Yes, but most that claim to have done so (incorrectly) think alpha-n is the same thing as speed density. True speed density on ME7.1 would be as complex to implement as wideband O2 support.

Fair enough... I guess your not making any headway unless your blowing shit up LOL
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_Adrian_
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 07:34:33 PM »

its not much of a simulation rather than a scalled output of the actual wideband output. I have a pair of LC2'sLC2 with the Bosch LSU4.9 sensors waiting to go in...


Fair enough... I guess your not making any headway unless your blowing shit up LOL
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