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Author Topic: Simos MK7 logging  (Read 9678 times)
Blazius
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« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2020, 10:45:36 AM »

Windows 10 is amazing. if you need a non bullshit version ( even though the 2 major latest builds are very customizable) get the LTSC version, you get none of the bollocks.


Nice tool, sure it will come in handy for people.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 10:47:40 AM by Blazius » Logged
prj
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« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2020, 10:48:05 AM »

Windows 10 is terrible, but get on a supported OS already...

Thanks PRJ - the tool is cool and no doubt accomplishes the high logging rate that's being discussed.  The page mentions bench, bflash, and PCMFlash.  PCMFlash is relatively cheap (though every time I've looked there's no SIMOS18 support). Are there other hobbyists out there actually spending for tools like bflash? Who is this targeted at?

I posted back to the thread to understand 'how' not 'whether' [it's possible].  I understand it's not doable without patching the ASW, I was curious if the things that I'm seeing mean there's patches already in place [in the software I'm running].

bFlash can patch the ECU over OBD.
You can use any other flasher that does SIMOS18 bootmode to patch it on the bench in boot.
PCMFlash only does MEDC17 and older stuff like S8.5/S8.4, but for the 3.0 TFSI SIMOS the Mode22 logger is good enough, and the ECU is dead easy to tune, so no point to invest time into that.

Patching is required either way, nothing is open in the ECU. If you don't have a tool that can write the ECU then you don't need the logger, I don't see the dilemma here.
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Basano
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« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2020, 11:55:37 AM »

Very well done.

Make no mistake, this is a non-trivial undertaking. To make a front-end, a back-end, a toolchain, a decent user interface, support for 3PP hardware, cater for multiple ECU variants with ASM differences even with the same family, a patching guide, A2L parsing, keeping it all current, the whole end to end shebang…

I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t even start.

After all that, the mechanics of moving the bytes out the ECU is almost the easy part Smiley To be clear, PRJ has made his own stack that doesn’t use the underlying UDS layers, so it’s not related to any UDS service. No $22, $23, $2C …

Because I’m endlessly curious:

  • Maybe the patch in flash is a RAM loader and you can then upload and execute the actual logging and comms out of RAM?
  • Could you define your own memory locations/blocks to log as well in addition to selecting an ID from a table? Like supply an address?
  • Perhaps a tie-in with the flash tool vendors (bFlash, AT, MMS etc) to run on their hw interfaces as well?
  • A hobbyist variant, perhaps limited in speed/number of variables?
  • A variant for Linux?

 Grin
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 12:00:01 PM by Basano » Logged
jamespinger
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« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2020, 12:13:23 PM »

Patching is required either way, nothing is open in the ECU. If you don't have a tool that can write the ECU then you don't need the logger, I don't see the dilemma here.

Not trivializing it in ANY way. It's a huge amount of work. Sell what you built.

My original question a few posts back was around the reference to different modes. I see Eurodyne send 0x2C.  I wasn't sure if that was the "mode" you refer to.

Some of this is highly specific and custom. Other parts are part of a standard. I'm trying to understand what parts of the standard have been implemented and what parts are custom in the bin on my box. There's no open flashing solution but that doesn't mean there can't be some information sharing.
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jamespinger
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« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2020, 12:27:24 PM »


Because I’m endlessly curious:

  • Maybe the patch in flash is a RAM loader and you can then upload and execute the actual logging and comms out of RAM?
  • Could you define your own memory locations/blocks to log as well in addition to selecting an ID from a table? Like supply an address?
  • Perhaps a tie-in with the flash tool vendors (bFlash, AT, MMS etc) to run on their hw interfaces as well?
  • A hobbyist variant, perhaps limited in speed/number of variables?
  • A variant for Linux?


Though, again, I can only speak to what I believe Eurodyne is doing.... But I can't imagine there's THAT many different ways to accomplish this:
- There's some application software that runs (kind of like an agent).  The "patching" process patches this in.  It gets memory addresses and feeds back their values.  In the case of Eurodyne, you can send it a number of memory addresses and it returns all their values each time you ask for an update.
- He's likely using the A2L to autodefine the memory locations, length, and factor/multiplier for each of the variables.  It's not *just* a memory location.
- Doubt there's any point in doing a "hobbyiest variant" since at this point in time there's really no hobbyiest flashing solution for the Simos18.  We'll have it one day, but until then there's no point.  I can't imagine this ASW patch would work well with any of the other [self]tuning solutions out there (i.e. Eurodyne and HPTuners), so there's little point in doing it anyway.
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prj
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« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2020, 01:05:07 AM »

Very well done.

Make no mistake, this is a non-trivial undertaking. To make a front-end, a back-end, a toolchain, a decent user interface, support for 3PP hardware, cater for multiple ECU variants with ASM differences even with the same family, a patching guide, A2L parsing, keeping it all current, the whole end to end shebang…
Add to that stuff like real time full text search over the entire A2L data and the fact that the tool can load around 60000 measurements in 3-4 seconds, and that's a pretty good list Wink
Don't forget the logistics of having A2L data for all the ECU's...
What I haven't done yet is make an A2L generator that compares similar files and generates A2L between them. But that is on the radar. That way I can support more box codes.
Quote
Because I’m endlessly curious:

  • Maybe the patch in flash is a RAM loader and you can then upload and execute the actual logging and comms out of RAM?
  • Could you define your own memory locations/blocks to log as well in addition to selecting an ID from a table? Like supply an address?
  • Perhaps a tie-in with the flash tool vendors (bFlash, AT, MMS etc) to run on their hw interfaces as well?
  • A hobbyist variant, perhaps limited in speed/number of variables?
  • A variant for Linux?

 Grin
* There is no remote code execution. The mechanism is similar to $2C, but it's custom.
* Custom addresses will be possible in the future
* J2534 makes the most sense, all the tool makers have their own tools and protocols, this is not how this world works.
* No hobbyist variant. This is my job. I need to eat. In fact I would dare to say it is super accessible for a Hobbyist. A Tactrix Openport is ~150 EUR and the license for a single ECU is 100 EUR. So if you are a hobbyist and you want to only log your car it's 250 EUR total investment. The Tactrix is usable for a whole lot of other things as well, so really it's 100 EUR you're paying.
* No Linux support for the front-end. The back-end is all fully Linux. I use WPF and this is a windows-only technology.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 01:09:21 AM by prj » Logged
prj
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« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2020, 01:37:52 AM »

Windows 7 is now supported:
https://docs.vehical.net/logger#windows_7
https://docs.vehical.net/logger/changelog
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Pr3muToS
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« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2020, 01:19:48 PM »

very good work, can you send me an API key please? iam gonna pm you...

maybe you think of kinda "dealer license" which is payed once for unlimited usage in future ;-)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 01:52:27 PM by Pr3muToS » Logged
gt-innovation
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« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2020, 01:42:33 PM »


Good work PRJ keep it up...

As for the price it is fair considering the amount of work that needs to be done in the background...

For the Hobbyists that don`t like the price... Drugs are cheaper than a simos18 car or a car in General Smiley Smiley Smiley
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 07:29:02 AM by gt-innovation » Logged
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