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Author Topic: Tuning projects 3.0TFSI Stage 1 SIMOS 8.4  (Read 19535 times)
NoOne
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« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2019, 12:31:36 AM »


http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=13862.msg131904#msg131904

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=17027.msg131265#msg131265

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=17026.msg131263#msg131263

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=16807.msg130233#msg130233

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=16853.msg130178#msg130178

I can't see here anything about simos 8. If you need some help write what is your problem, and I'll try to help.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 02:17:52 AM by NoOne » Logged
Chujozo
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« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2020, 01:28:09 AM »

Hi everybody.
I've got s4 with simos 8.5 and tuned it well with stage1. Car drive great, but i needed more power after few months and installed bigger187mm CS pulley. After few mods with stage 2 car still dive good, but i dont feel many (or any?) diference with stage 1. The biggest problem is bleeding boost and power at high revs (5500-6000 and more). At stage one i request more boost with adding some mbars to ip_maf_sp map and edit ip_map_max_pow_lim, but at stage 2 there is a issue. Attached logs:
stage1 : https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/286424#H8KLCABxwqpkXgIDTcOLw4EKwoMwEATDkH%2FDmcOzBAzCtcOSfkvDiCHDqsKSLlgjw4kKw6rDl2vDrMKlw4fCmTfDoxwNw6nDm8OLw4wmw6bCtC7ChcOQeMOUckpZDsK%2BIijDssOMOShTwpUwwo5mN2HCk3JbwpbDuMORGwrDqx84wosOD8K0eMOiwo3ClwfDmcOfe8OVVMKWScK0bmzDq8O9CcOcOMKXwrPCgQAAAA%3D%3D
stage2:https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/286425#H8KLCAA1wqtkXgIDTcOLw4EKwoMwEATDkH%2FDmcOzBAzCtcOSfkvDiCHDqsKSLlgjw4kKw6rDl2vDrMKlw4fCmTfDoxwNw6nDm8OLw4wmw6bCtC7ChcOQeMOUckpZDsK%2BIijDssOMOShTwpUwwo5mN2HCk3JbwpbDuMORGwrDqx84wosOD8K0eMOiwo3ClwfDmcOfe8OVVMKWScK0bmzDq8O9CcOcOMKXwrPCgQAAAA%3D%3D
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Chujozo
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« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2020, 01:29:05 AM »

Hi everybody.
I've got s4 with simos 8.5 and tuned it well with stage1. Car drive great, but i needed more power after few months and installed bigger187mm CS pulley. After few mods with stage 2 car still dive good, but i dont feel many (or any?) diference with stage 1. The biggest problem is bleeding boost and power at high revs (5500-6000 and more). At stage one i request more boost with adding some mbars to ip_maf_sp map and edit ip_map_max_pow_lim, but at stage 2 there is a issue. Attached logs:
stage1 : https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/286424#H8KLCABxwqpkXgIDTcOLw4EKwoMwEATDkH%2FDmcOzBAzCtcOSfkvDiCHDqsKSLlgjw4kKw6rDl2vDrMKlw4fCmTfDoxwNw6nDm8OLw4wmw6bCtC7ChcOQeMOUckpZDsK%2BIijDssOMOShTwpUwwo5mN2HCk3JbwpbDuMORGwrDqx84wosOD8K0eMOiwo3ClwfDmcOfe8OVVMKWScK0bmzDq8O9CcOcOMKXwrPCgQAAAA%3D%3D
stage2:https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/286425#H8KLCAA1wqtkXgIDTcOLw4EKwoMwEATDkH%2FDmcOzBAzCtcOSfkvDiCHDqsKSLlgjw4kKw6rDl2vDrMKlw4fCmTfDoxwNw6nDm8OLw4wmw6bCtC7ChcOQeMOUckpZDsK%2BIijDssOMOShTwpUwwo5mN2HCk3JbwpbDuMORGwrDqx84wosOD8K0eMOiwo3ClwfDmcOfe8OVVMKWScK0bmzDq8O9CcOcOMKXwrPCgQAAAA%3D%3D
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Chujozo
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« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2020, 12:58:45 AM »

Anyway. I start to study FR and files shared by SB_GLI (very helpful). However I don't like to change unnecessary things in any tune. So I'd like to continue this tread so we can discuss any map/line/SV that we think should be modified.

I'll start with maps pointed out from SB_GLI
1) ip_flow_vol_scha_bas_1 - Supercharger basic volume flow - I don't think we should modify this map if we didn't made any hardware change on supercharger. I think we should change this map extrapolating values in it only if we plan to go over 2.1 Pressure Ratio or we plan to spin SC over 18 000rpm. Stock pulley configuration is 1:2.55, which means we can bump rpm limit to 7 000rpm without touching this map. If we plan some pulley upgrades together with rising rpm limit, then maybe we should extrapolate values in this map.
My observations show that this map is useless for stage1 or 2+. Any changes make nothing to performance of the car. neither extrapolation nor decalibration. You can leave this map stock even if you plan to upgrade pulleys to get more air.


2) ip_maf_max_stnd_vvl - Maximum intake air of the engine at standardized ambient pressure for different valve lifts - I think this map should be changed only if we make some hardware changes on intake/exhaust side of the engine rising its breathing potential. Anyway in this map I can see enough air for close to 300kW.
This map is software limited to 1389 mg/stk which can give about 2.5 bar of boost. Its enought for 500KM and moore.

3) ip_map_max_pow_lim - Maximum intake manifold pressure for MAF_SP limitation - If we take into account values from ip_flow_vol_scha_bas_1, engine displacement - 3 liters, and pulley ratio - 1:2.55, then maximum PR that we can achieve with stock configuration is close to 2.3-2.4, so maybe with stock hardware we can get 2 300mbar absolute pressure.
With stock hardware configuration we can achieve about 2.1 bar at sea level and higher rpms then stock. Z axis of this map is also limited to 1389 mg/stk. This map and maximum allowed torque at clutch due to torque limitation depending on gear ratio are the clue to keep compressor bypas close.
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 01:14:50 AM by Chujozo » Logged
fastboatster
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« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2020, 03:55:55 PM »

Noob here trying to tune my b8 s4 after I fix it's dsg transmission. From what I can gather, the cheapest way to do it is to use PCM flash (sorry if it's something obvious) along with SIMOS 8 plugin. I was trying to look up the maps in a bin file using their offsets from the file with a list of maps posted in some of the previous posts using trial WinOLS but values are off. I might be using a wrong bin file (cal only?) or there's something more to the offsets. In any event, I'll need to correct the checksums and bypass the RSA security and I can't do it without PCM flash.
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fastboatster
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« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2020, 12:14:57 AM »

Meanwhile while waiting on the PCM flash tool to show up, converting the list of maps uploaded by SB_GLI which was apparently exported from WinOLS to xdf format. Entered several maps into my draft xdf file manually, which is too slow, gotta come up with some kind of script to convert everything into xdf compatible format. The maps seem to make sense, I had trouble before because I used wrong stock file version (C instead of E) Something I noticed is that torque limitation map (i.e. max torque at clutch) for dct transmission is not in the list although it is described in the FR. I wonder if it should look just like a 6mt map and whether it could be found in the bin file manually. It might be near all the rest of torque at clutch limit maps.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 12:22:38 AM by fastboatster » Logged
NoOne
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« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2020, 01:11:18 AM »

Yes it could be find manualy. It's near othetr torque maps.
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fastboatster
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« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2020, 08:14:30 PM »

Another thing - maps for E software version don't work for C and D. My cars has a software version D, so that's a problem. Perhaps my ECU is compatible with version E Huh Something to dig around
P.S. just compared the same version level of E and D against each other (version 0004), seem to have very minor byte differences and values for most of the maps I already defined in my draft xdf file seem to match, except that version E has lower values for at max torque at clutch map at higher rpsm (6000-7000)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 08:46:35 PM by fastboatster » Logged
NoOne
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« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2020, 12:42:31 AM »

All maps are the same or similliar, but located in diferent areas. It is simply to find them in 2D mode. Version E has lower values for max torque at clutch map at higher rpms because there are many diferent power options at oryginally 3.0 tfsi e.g 290hp, 300hp, 310hp, 333hp. All that ecus got one different performance map. It's torque map. No difference at any lambda, ignition, air flow or limitter maps.
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fastboatster
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« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2020, 11:44:43 AM »

Yes, that's what I see. I was also referring to the fact that 'software' variation D with revision 3 is very different from the revision 4. However, across the revision 4, C, D or E seem very similar. Since I got revision 3 of software D in my ecu, I think I should update to revision 4 first and then apply changes.
One thing which I'm looking at in the FR is lambda maps. Since this is an TFSI engine, it seems to be different from non-FSI engines such as 1.8T. It appears that for 1.8T, there's mostly one map which needs to be updated called LAMFA plus some other maps to make the car "follow" the LAMFA. For 3.0t, looks like there 2 sets of maps we need to be concerned about, one for "homogenous" (low load I presume) and one for "stratified" mode (wot or something like that). Seems like stratified mode lambda maps are a lot richer that homogenous maps and we may be able to get away without fueling changes for now. I.e., some logs posted in this thread from the tune which presumably changed only torque limit maps and boost pressure limits show decent (to my very inexperienced pow) lambdas.
Another area is ignition timing, I'll be trying to run on 91 octane Cali gas, so maybe I'll need to change these values. Another thing I think I need to do is to look at 2.0t tfsi tunes, these may provide clues on what needs to be done for lambda and ignition maps for modes such as homogenous and stratified charge.
In any event, need to get my car assembled together first, my dsg is still laying under the car waiting for the front clutch cover.
P.S. got homogenous and stratified modes mixed up, homogenous is for high load and stratified is for low load conditions
P.P.S. PCM Flash is still on its way so can't play with a car. Ready to bolt the transmission back to the car, fun times ahead.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 10:12:40 AM by fastboatster » Logged
fastboatster
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« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2020, 08:12:21 PM »

Still dont have PCM flash, it's been showing as cleared by Russian customs on June 20th. In some way, I hope it got lost and I can get a refund. After dropping and putting the trans back into this friggin car, I dont want to do any more repairs to this car. Not so keen on replacing the cats after I start getting the boost up or dropping the trans again if something else goes wrong. And for what, easy n54 stage 1 or 2 hp numbers. Given the price diff between, say e90 335i and the s4, I can't justifying spending development and repair time and money on this car to barely get 400hp out of it. Screw it.
p.s. nope, didn't lose it, basically explained to me that this is now what they see for shipping time due to covid. there's smaller number of planes now and there's also package backlog.
I probably should have used HP tuners solution (mpvi2) which includes map editing software and appropriate dongle. the downside is, of course, it's vin-locked and the total cost with their credit system is about twice as much not to mention that it can't do dl501 which I think I'll need to do as well sooner than later.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 05:20:51 PM by fastboatster » Logged
fastboatster
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« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2020, 01:42:24 PM »

Well doh, why didn't it occur to me earlier to order PCM flash from some well-known UK chip tuning software reseller? I ordered it on Sunday night and now it's already landed in LA. Sucks to wait 3 months to realize it would take only 3 days if ordered from the right place. So I guess game on, then.
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fastboatster
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« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2020, 06:06:16 PM »

Quick update - I was able to find torque limit maps by gear in SIMOS8.4 bin file (D, 0003). One thing of note - it seems like there's only 4 of these there, and they align with MT/MT_4WD torque limit maps in SIMOS8.5. I didn't see anything resembling SIMOS8.5 AT maps. Regardless, I was able to modify simos8.4 torque limit maps and saw torque as high as 517Nm produced which is definitely not stock. I couldn't log it well since Eurodyne logger didn't want to save the log to file for me. I'll try to figure out another logging solution and maybe will post my xdf file.
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fastboatster
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« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2020, 06:14:43 PM »

Attached my xdf and bin file, I couldn't edit my previous post to add these files. This is all WIP and very raw.
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irish07
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« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2020, 06:18:23 PM »

Quick update - I was able to find torque limit maps by gear in SIMOS8.4 bin file (D, 0003). One thing of note - it seems like there's only 4 of these there, and they align with MT/MT_4WD torque limit maps in SIMOS8.5. I didn't see anything resembling SIMOS8.5 AT maps. Regardless, I was able to modify simos8.4 torque limit maps and saw torque as high as 517Nm produced which is definitely not stock. I couldn't log it well since Eurodyne logger didn't want to save the log to file for me. I'll try to figure out another logging solution and maybe will post my xdf file.
If your using winols, what’s the map ID your referencing?
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