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Author Topic: MED9.1 - Stage 1 tune - Seat Leon 1p Cupra 2.0 TFSI 240 Hp  (Read 16467 times)
Garfimp
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« on: December 19, 2018, 03:57:14 AM »

Hi,

In this topic I will humbly share my work on the software I am trying to build for my 2.0 TFSI Seat Leon (240Hp).
And hopefully get some help/advices from you guys.  Grin
Please consider I am a noob with this ECU and be gentle with me lol, the followings posts might be full of mistakes, I've only done one tuning so far on these ECUs, with a lot of help and didn't fully understand the modifications we made at that time I'll admit. Wink
So this time I am keen to learn and understand to improve myself.

My first target is to make a correct "stage 1" tuning to reach around 300hp. Later I will probably install a downpipe, and direct CAI (such as Neuspeed/CTS ones) and reach for a “stage 2” software. But first things firsts : the basic stock hardware software.
I already built my map pack and began to tune the maps I thought were needed. I didn’t flash anything yet.

Please note that the car is fully stock from a hardware pov so far.

I will mark my questions like this "1)" "2)" etc. But I am also really not sure if I modified correctly the maps, so any comment really appreciated too of course  Wink

1) In my mod, I target 192 load, don’t really know if this is a good target to reach the 300 hp though?


So here are the modifications I made. :


KFMIOP :

2) I modified only the second KFMIOP since the first one is, I think, for stratified mode and therefore not used.. is that correct?

KFMIRL :


LDRXN1 :

3-a) I modified only the first of the 3 LDRXN maps I have, if I understood correctly, only one is used, and if not the first one I will try the second then third, do I proceed the right way? Smiley

KFDHLBN :


LDPBN :


LAMFA 1:

3-b) Same as LDRXN, only first version modified.

KFLBTS1, a little richer :

3-c) Same, I modified only 1st version of the map

KFFLDBTS, I kept stock:

4) Should I also modify the KFFLDBTS for lambts ? Or only KFLBTS is needed ? When I see lambts = KFLBTS + [KF]DLBTS*KFFDLBTS, I am not sure if KLBTS is enough…

KFLDIMX

5)  I reduced the values around the rpm where I expect an overshoot from turbo pressure, but maybe did it the wrong way..? :

KLMIMAX_UM, and KLMZUMN_UM

6) I have seen in various mods, people modifying KLMIMAX_UM, and KLMZUMN_UM, but I don't understand why we need to tune those
Can someone explain to me how they cap something and need to be altered?
If I understood correctly, they cap the torque, at list for KLMIMAX_UM, this one maybe I should set to 99% like above? but for KLMZUMN_UM I admit I am a bit lost…


7) Last question, at least for now  Grin, if I modify my NMAX singles to let’s say 7000 rpm, should I rescale rpm axis in the different maps ??

Thank you all for your help Smiley


« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:52:17 AM by Garfimp » Logged
bleach972
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 04:34:49 AM »

hello ,
thank you to share your work ,i have the same car as you ,i will start to tune it like you .
by the way can you share your original file please ?
thank you.
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Garfimp
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 05:34:57 AM »

hello ,
thank you to share your work ,i have the same car as you ,i will start to tune it like you .
by the way can you share your original file please ?
thank you.

Hi,

Good to know Smiley
Please find my original file here : http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=15360.0
Also, do you have a topic for your project too? I am very interested in seeing your work, maybe we could both improve ourselves throughout our respective work.

And btw, when you say "tune it like you",I don't really know what you mean, however don't forget I am a beginner  Grin and my tune has never been tested, and is probably not the good example...
This thread is mainly to get feedback from the experts around here,  improve my self and the software before I test it out. There are probably much more reliable topics and software in this forum. However it is also of course to share my "little" work as a beginner and if it can help others, I am glad ! Wink
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 06:32:01 AM by Garfimp » Logged
gman86
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 06:07:54 PM »

Hi,

In this topic I will humbly share my work on the software I am trying to build for my 2.0 TFSI Seat Leon (240Hp).
And hopefully get some help/advices from you guys.  Grin
Please consider I am a noob with this ECU and be gentle with me lol, I've only done one tuning so far on these ECUs, with a lot of help and didn't fully understand the modifications we made at that time I'll admit. Wink
So this time I am keen to learn and understand to improve myself.


You'd have been as well leaving LAMFA stock. With those values, knock and calculated EGT will be so high that it'll go into component protection anyway.
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Garfimp
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2018, 11:08:48 PM »

You'd have been as well leaving LAMFA stock. With those values, knock and calculated EGT will be so high that it'll go into component protection anyway.

Hello gman86,
Thank you for your answer! Wink
Do you mean I did something wrong and so I will have too much knock and EGT ? Or it is the way it is supposed to be when tuning?
I understand it will mainly use lambts yes from the different topics I've read here. Is that something that we can and have to avoid ? If yes, how?
Or is it okay that Lamfa will not be really used and use mainly lambts instead?

Also as mentionned on  my question n° 4, I don't know if I did enough modifications for lambts? I modified only KFLBTS, is that enough?
Or should I also modify the KFFLDBTS for lambts ?

Thanks for your help Smiley

« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 11:35:18 PM by Garfimp » Logged
prj
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 03:04:19 AM »

The modifications you did, especially fueling wise, show a complete lack of understanding of the processes involved in an internal combustion engine.
I'd say start with the basics and understand combustion and it's effects and only then go messing around with the ECU.
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Garfimp
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 03:34:40 AM »

The modifications you did, especially fueling wise, show a complete lack of understanding of the processes involved in an internal combustion engine.
I'd say start with the basics and understand combustion and it's effects and only then go messing around with the ECU.

Hi prj,

Okay...Undecided I completely admit I am not an expert, far from it..  Wink  

However can you please be a little bit more specific on what I did wrong or what pointed out my lack of understanding ? You are talking about LAMFA/KFLBTS I guess ?
Since I didn't touch much other things for fueling so far... Anyway I am here to learn and improve my understanding so if you could point to the right direction so that I can understand and learn to correct my mistakes, it would be great !  Smiley

Is it the 0,88/0,86 ratio in lamfa which is not correct? Maybe not rich enough ? And/Or the KFLBTS values (0,87/0,84) not rich enough? Or/and not different enough from the Lamfa values? Or is it that I didn't modify the right areas of the maps? Or none of the above?  Grin

My understanding is the following : I enriched a little bit LAMFA values vs LAMFA stock values for high torque requests to do a "pre enrichment" and avoid EGT triggering KFLBTS too early (avoid EGT to go over TABGBTS threshold too soon and trigger BTS). Then I made KFLBTS a little richer than LAMFA because I thought that the component protection should be a little bit richer in order to lower the EGT when they are too high... but maybe I am wrong?
Also as mentionned and you are right, I haven't yet figured out how to properly scale lambts. And I modified only KFLBTS map, but maybe I would need to modify other maps involved in the lambts calculation like DLBTS or KFFDLBTS which I have kept stock for now?

Anyway thank you for your reply, if you have any good examples of what I should have done instead, or any tips,  I would really appreciate your help.  Wink

« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:38:18 AM by Garfimp » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 08:48:42 AM »

Dont' touch LAMFA, IMX, BTS until your req boost is where you want it (confirm by logging).

Then, work on IMX until boost is fine.

Then, go back to LAMFA/BTS as needed

One thing at a time.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Garfimp
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 09:01:41 AM »

Dont' touch LAMFA, IMX, BTS until your req boost is where you want it (confirm by logging).

Then, work on IMX until boost is fine.

Then, go back to LAMFA/BTS as needed

One thing at a time.

Ok thanks Nyet, I will reset to stock those maps then. The rest of my mod is ok? Can I flash it like this without risks (with only IRL/IOP/LDRXN/KFLDHBN/LDPBN modified like I did) ? Smiley

Also I will keep looking how works the fueling with LAMFA / BTS for eGT / and lambda for knock protection too. Seems to be a harsh topic !  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 09:04:35 AM by Garfimp » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2018, 09:10:47 AM »

Also I will keep looking how works the fueling with LAMFA / BTS for eGT / and lambda for knock protection too. Seems to be a harsh topic !  Smiley

For stage 1 only i don't think any of that is needed.

You can, of course, experiment to learn.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Garfimp
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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2018, 09:19:12 AM »

For stage 1 only i don't think any of that is needed.

You can, of course, experiment to learn.

Oh okay, I thought some modifications would be needed on the lambda for a stage 1, but if not, it is really fine haha.

Here are the logs I did with stock ECU, everything looks fine to me except maybe a the little delay on cylinders 3 and 4 (coil or sparks maybe?), but I am no expert, so if you see something please say so Wink.

And if everything looks fine + my mod with fueling reset to stock too, I will try to flash it and log this week end  Smiley

Thanks
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nyet
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« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2018, 01:32:24 PM »

In particular, you really want to concentrate only on one thing at a time if you aren't sure which map variants are used for your coding.

Ideally, you should try to track that down first to avoid surprises.

I understand that may not be possible in your case, in which case trial and error might be your only realistic alternative.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Garfimp
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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2018, 01:53:41 PM »

In particular, you really want to concentrate only on one thing at a time if you aren't sure which map variants are used for your coding.

Ideally, you should try to track that down first to avoid surprises.

I understand that may not be possible in your case, in which case trial and error might be your only realistic alternative.

If you mean disassemble the dump to see what version of ldrxn is used etc then yes, I have never done it...and it is still very obscur to me.. but if not too complex for a noob I will look into it. Wink

Any feedback on my stock logs and other questions? Smiley
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 01:57:00 PM by Garfimp » Logged
prj
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2018, 07:06:47 AM »

Anyway thank you for your reply, if you have any good examples of what I should have done instead, or any tips,  I would really appreciate your help.  Wink
A good example of what you should do, is put away the computer, take a good paper back book about ICE's and read it until it's crystal clear on topics such as effect of mixture on combustion and torque, effect of spark advance on combustion and torque, temperature control and so on.

If you wanna screw around, you can screw around forever, but you will never get it running as well as someone who grasps the above concepts.
I also hope you have money for a new turbo and engine, in case they go "poof" during your experiments.

Also, I'd start with something that does not have direct injection for learning, because direct injection adds a whole other layer of complication.

As to tune in question:
1. IOP/IRL modifications make 0 sense.
2. Maxing KFLDHBN is a bad idea
3. Fueling modifications make 0 sense.
4. Boost PID not even touched, stock PID will not work right.
5. Never EVER touch any _UM maps. They almost never need any changes, only in extreme situations with cars very far removed from stock - people who do this do not understand the ECU.
6. Stock HPFP can not support that LDRXN.

Basically of all the stuff you posted the only changes I agree with is moving LDPBN out of the way.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 07:13:50 AM by prj » Logged
Garfimp
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2018, 07:24:06 AM »

A good example of what you should do, is put away the computer, take a good paper back book about ICE's and read it until it's crystal clear on topics such as effect of mixture on combustion and torque, effect of spark advance on combustion and torque, temperature control and so on.

If you wanna screw around, you can screw around forever, but you will never get it running as well as someone who grasps the above concepts.
I also hope you have money for a new turbo and engine, in case they go "poof" during your experiments.

Also, I'd start with something that does not have direct injection for learning, because direct injection adds a whole other layer of complication.


 Undecided...So according to you, I am a lost cause because I am no expert on every process involved on an ICE? I admit it is better when knowing everything involved, sure, but I thought for a basic stage 1 tune, I would not need to be an expert on front flames speed and so on for instance Wink. The more you know the better, no argue there, don't misunderstand my point.

Also, what's the use of this forum then? It is only for combustion doctors and experts? And not for experts like you to guide the beginners motivated to learn?  Roll Eyes
I thought we came here to share, learn...

Also, as far as I know, I didn't came here to ask for a premade tune or so; I am respectful, spending a lot of time to understand as much as I can, post as detailed information as I can etc. I am working on my side and willing to learn, but came here because indeed, I need some help.

Eventually, I didn't say I will flash my car with random values, and then test it out. I'm not totally stupid... Smiley
I share here what I think might be ok, mainly to be sure before flashing that I don't take any risk, and because I know that I may have made mistakes... but that's the point.
It's ok for you to say that I don't understand things, and should try to improve my knowledge on engines and combustion, but just doing it without helping, I don't see the added value.

Cheers and peace anyway, no hard feelings. And thanks for the warning at least Wink

EDIT : thanks for the last part you edited on your post, much more helpful, I wish you were still a little more specific, but that does make a start Smiley


As to tune in question:
1. IOP/IRL modifications make 0 sense.
2. Maxing KFLDHBN is a bad idea
3. Fueling modifications make 0 sense.
4. Boost PID not even touched, stock PID will not work right.
5. Never EVER touch any _UM maps. They almost never need any changes, only in extreme situations with cars very far removed from stock - people who do this do not understand the ECU.
6. Stock HPFP can not support that LDRXN.

Basically of all the stuff you posted the only changes I agree with is moving LDPBN out of the way.

 Ok, but that does raise questions on my side, I guess you won't be willing to elaborate and that's ok, but still ask though Smiley


1.  I did extrapolate KFMIOP axis, and put IRL reverse to IOP, I thought it was ok from what I read around, can you please be a little more specific on what is wrong ?
2. You are right, I will try to make it more close to the flow map
3. I know from your last post, but don't really know in what way it is so wrong, I will keep looking...thanks
4. I did touch KFLDIMX, you are talking of another map? KFLDRL should be modified ?
5.  Ok thank you very much for this information Smiley
6. S You mean 192 load is too much from the HPFP? Or only in certain RPM areas, it won't be able to reach what I ask ?

"Basically of all the stuff you posted the only changes I agree with is moving LDPBN out of the way." ==> Ok that is one thing right Cheesy

Thank you prj, sorry for my initial post Smiley

« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 07:35:51 AM by Garfimp » Logged
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