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nyet
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« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2019, 09:36:43 AM »
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Its going to break the car *right* now, you are WAY over the map limit.
And your request is ridiculously high..
I'd probably back off IMX quite a bit at low rpm, taper boost request, maybe tighten your wg a bit if you can't find any TIP issues.
Bottom line, no matter what, your boost request is unrelastic and unsafe, in particular because you're running it right up on the MAP limit
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IWay
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« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2019, 10:13:35 AM »
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I didn't (still don't) know where the limit was for the hardware and without any reliable referance* for when to stop. So I kept pushing it up.
Fortunatley for me the hardware has run out of steam before the car has broken.
Once the new TIP is on I was going to pull it back to the attached and take it from there, seem resonable?
* For reference I was looking for Boost to BHP - lb\ft table\graph, but can't find one, all I can find is people saying don't go over 300BHP - 300lb\ft.
What does 300BHP - 300lb\ft equate to in Boost at what rpm in 3rd gear, even as a rough guide? The ecuxplot seems way off even when the profile is adjusted.
Thanks
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Blazius
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« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2019, 11:16:05 AM »
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I didn't (still don't) know where the limit was for the hardware and without any reliable referance* for when to stop. So I kept pushing it up.
Fortunatley for me the hardware has run out of steam before the car has broken.
Once the new TIP is on I was going to pull it back to the attached and take it from there, seem resonable?
* For reference I was looking for Boost to BHP - lb\ft table\graph, but can't find one, all I can find is people saying don't go over 300BHP - 300lb\ft.
What does 300BHP - 300lb\ft equate to in Boost at what rpm in 3rd gear, even as a rough guide? The ecuxplot seems way off even when the profile is adjusted.
Thanks
The reason people say 300 lbs/400nm is because that is the stock rod limit and even then its not something u want to keep for 10 years. But that limit is only with say a t04e or something like that. The f23 is very agressive for the stock rods, even though they claim it is safe , and etc. You need to calculate your airflow ( into engine) then calculate a boost airflow using a compressor map. Honestly. if you didnt go read "Street Turbocharging" by Mark Warner, very good book and you need it. |
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adam-
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« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2019, 11:51:57 PM »
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Also does the attached log & graph mean that there is knock but it's been corrected or does it need correcting?
You are not logging individual cylinder knock. Do that. Also, why is there a massive spike in boost? Do you have a recirc fitted? |
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nyet
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« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2019, 06:17:24 AM »
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his imax is too high.
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IWay
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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2019, 04:47:34 AM »
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Hello all, After a while fixing a cam chain tensioner issue (I’m really quick at removing and installing it now - 40mins). I'm now back to looking at the mapping again. I think I have the explanation why the previous maps weren't doing as expected, the actual mechanicals weren't up to it and the maps were unrealistic IE the engine was choking due to the TIP & air filter not flowing freely enough. I have fitted a bigger TIP and have the parts for a bigger air filter on order, the bigger TIP has made a difference  I have also lowered the load maps, probably realistically still too high, as the mechanicals stand it won't get there, but it's a work in progress. I have a few of questions around "knock"; - Can it be completely eliminated at high revs on a VAG 1.8T? - Is there a permissible level of knock? - What AFR ratio is the minimum that can be used to control knock before it becomes counterproductive? - What ignition advance can be used to control knock before it becomes counterproductive? - Is there anything else that can be used to control knock other than Fuel type, AFR & ignition timing? Latest graph & log attached. Thanks |
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« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 04:51:27 AM by IWay »
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jahko
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« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2019, 05:55:23 AM »
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just read the thread and would suggest putting the maps pretty much back to standard, try the next spring up in the actuator with a bit less pre-load then start again. Pushing it a bit at a time rather than going mental and wondering why nothing works will answer a lot of your questions. Not to be a knob about it but I mapped my car dozens of times to get it just past a stage 1.
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nyet
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« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2019, 07:47:25 AM »
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- Can it be completely eliminated at high revs on a VAG 1.8T?
- Is there a permissible level of knock?
- What AFR ratio is the minimum that can be used to control knock before it becomes counterproductive?
- What ignition advance can be used to control knock before it becomes counterproductive?
- Is there anything else that can be used to control knock other than Fuel type, AFR & ignition timing?
no unless running E85, maybe race fuel sure. depends, need a dyno to optimize depends, need a dyno to optimize lower compression ratio All of these topics are covered extensively throughout NEF and even EFI tuning materials (e.g. books). It is far to large a topic to answer all of your questions in a single thread here. |
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IWay
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« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2019, 08:41:45 AM »
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Cheers.
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prj
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« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2019, 12:43:02 PM »
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Also, FYI, you WILL melt the engine running too little timing and too much boost.
Just throwing that out there.
This is not a computer game.
You're a perfect example of someone trying to run before he can walk.
Start with some books about ICE basics... And no, spinning wrenches and bolting shit together does not magically make you an expert on what goes on inside an internal combustion engine.
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BlackT
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« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2019, 12:59:37 PM »
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Also, FYI, you WILL melt the engine running too little timing and too much boost.
Just throwing that out there.
This is not a computer game.
You're a perfect example of someone trying to run before he can walk.
Start with some books about ICE basics... And no, spinning wrenches and bolting shit together does not magically make you an expert on what goes on inside an internal combustion engine.
When you say too little timing, you mean too mich advance? |
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nyet
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« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2019, 01:16:16 PM »
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- Is there anything else that can be used to control knock other than Fuel type, AFR & ignition timing?
I'm also a bit disturbed you didn't mention IAT  |
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Blazius
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« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2019, 07:21:36 PM »
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When you say too little timing, you mean too mich advance?
No, I am pretty sure he is talking about too little advance for a certain flame speed. If flame speed increases timing has too, if it doesnt you gonna have higher egts because the combustion is basically still happening when the exhaust valve is opening. Like antilag/ lc only not as extreme. |
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prj
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« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2019, 11:51:13 PM »
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No, I am pretty sure he is talking about too little advance for a certain flame speed. If flame speed increases timing has too, if it doesnt you gonna have higher egts because the combustion is basically still happening when the exhaust valve is opening. Like antilag/ lc only not as extreme.
That's not how an engine works >.< |
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IWay
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« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2019, 03:04:52 AM »
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All,
Thanks for your input.
Just to clarify,
I set out to get an old Audi TT MK1 BAM to 300BHP & 300lb\ft, at present I'm up to 208g\s air flow which using the divide by 0.8 comes to 260BHP approximately, there are a few mods to help to get to this target;
- Complete 3" exhaust
- Decat
- F23 turbo
- Stainless exhaust manifold
- Big TIP
- Big air filter on order (think this is the current restricting factor)
- Uprated fuel pump & 440cc injectors (not yet installed)
I'm not after an Nth degree of perfection or to become a tuning guru, at the moment I'm after getting something that works and doesn't damage the engine, then may be refining it.
When asking a question I'm not after being spoon fed, just pointing in a general direction of what to try and a suggestion of where to start and by how much EG timing - would I start changes with whole degrees or 10ths of a degree, Load – a load of XXX is approximately 300BHP at 6000rpm.
I have done a lot of reading and not all of it concurs, there are quite a few different views as demonstrated by this forum and things like knock control - some documents say to retard the timing others say to advance the timing? As I have read more it's easy to over think the subject, as I say I'm not after the Nth degree of perfection.
Thanks
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