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Author Topic: MSA12 to EDC15V swap  (Read 4494 times)
jochen_145
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« on: December 18, 2019, 02:35:04 AM »

Hey,

does some ever run a EDC15 on a 1Z 1.9TDI engine ?

first the project planed:

- early Audi 80 Avant  with 1Z engine
- change pumpe to "newer" 11mm pump with non-contact pump tension measurement
- change to EDC15V ECU
- maybe change to VNT-charger

Car will be a historical car in 2 years, witch can be interessting in Germany with the comming up emissions rules.
Together with 11mm pump and VNT charger together with better applicability of EDC15, you can increase efficiancy of the engine.

things to check, befor starting the project:

- does the engine speed sensor of the 1Z fit to EDC15 ?
- chargeair-pressure sensor needs to be interated
- how to switch off the complete CAN-communication of EDC15
- witch effects does this have (e.g. vehicle speed is not awailble, ASR/MSR functionallity need to be switched off)
- EDC15 needs to control bypass-charger as long as VNT is not used


Someone every did this job allready (maybe it VW T3-TDI-swap) ?
With software of ECU15 to start with ?
Witch hardware of ECU15 to choose ?
Anything more to take a look at ?

ANY hints are wellcome  Smiley

BR Jochen
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Kompiesto
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2019, 06:44:06 AM »

from golf 4 agr 90hp software?
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prj
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2019, 10:43:17 AM »

You can use almost any EDC15V. Most of them are cross flashable. You can for example cross flash a R5 one to R4 and so on. Because the amount of cylinders is technically not important.
I would use any software for which you have full a2l/dam file. Just saves time when everything is defined.
Here is a relevant SSP:
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_153.PDF
Engine speed sensor you can use pretty much any Bosch - as long as you can mount it and make it read... I don't remember if you can adjust TDC position in SW. But if you already have digital control (MSA12) then you should be able to use sensor from it...
Pressure sensor linearization is very simple.
CAN communication is irrelevant. It's not needed for anything.
VNT or WG does not matter at all, only in the PID calibration. For the ECU it's just a pulsed output and a setpoint/actual PID based on fuel flow.

The only thing you might struggle with is the vehicle speed sensor. It's not really neccessary, but if you want to use stuff like launch control you're going to need it.

Sensors you absolutely need:
Engine speed
Needle lift sensor
Charge air pressure + IAT (single sensor).
Throttle position
An electronic VE pump, this is going to have fuel temperature as well.
Coolant temp sensor

For actuators you will need at least a N75, everything else is contained in the pump.

Need a little more information on what you are trying to do exactly.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 10:46:24 AM by prj » Logged

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jochen_145
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2019, 12:14:24 PM »

Thanks for replay Smiley

ok, more infos what I like to do:

Emmission regulations in Germany go bad, so a diesel is only useable if, you got longway trips and make sure emmission systems are allway in warm, workable conditions.

Driving older diesels with less or nearly non emmission reduction system, your are bend driving in bigger cities.
Only "work-around" is driving a historic car with an age older then 30 years. They get an H-licence plate, do not match any actual emmission regulations and are allowed to drive in every city you like.
Historic cars can be tuned, but only with parts awailible in the years of the first registration of the car.

In 2022 the Audi 80 with 1Z will be 30 years old and allowed to get the H-plate.
1Z TDI is the first "mordern" diesel with high torque and low fuel consuption.
Running the 1Z engine with a 11mm pump, an EDC15 (SOI map-room etc.) and a VNT charger will increase the performance and the efficency.

I got a lot experiances with applicating an VEP or PD diesel with EDC15/16.
I also have experiances with a chance of parts (turbo, nozzles, pressure sensors, diagnose, etc.) but I never change parts inter-generation. So, swapping a MSA12 to EDC15 is new to me and I know about "problems" with changing the way sensors work, when you use newer generation ECU ( e.g. engine-speed-sensor went form inductiv to hall, or activ sensor with CAN or SENT are used).

I like to collect as mutch infos as possible, do know how mutch work or exchange is nessessary to run and old engine with newer control.




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prj
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2019, 02:22:34 AM »

MSA-12 to EDC15 has been done many many times on the 2.5 TDI AEL engine with only re-wiring.
Write less and do more - buy an ECU already with loom and adapt the harness...
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