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Author Topic: Holset on 1.8t ???  (Read 1637 times)
fukenbroken
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2020, 08:18:09 AM »

So here I am with the new tiny he221w 7cm
Bastard fits in td04hl hotside almost perfectly so I'm gonna try this setup in a few days

The he250wg promises more but super rare here

As for vgt seems they're expensive ones and I found some posts from mid 2000s bout using them in gas engines projects, variable a/r sounds great but if they actually are then why we are not using them?
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Blazius
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2020, 01:20:26 PM »

Because most people dont even know about them and there is the issue of properly tuning it as its different from WG tuning.

For VGT i'd take a look at the HE351V/E, as its a HY35 equalivent with vgt, very good turbo also. You can run this turbo on gas because its not a variable nozzle turbo but as said VGT, it actually controls flow by reducing the A/R turbine by sliding door(the vanes are attached to this door too but they dont turn in any way), its way more robust than varyin the nozzles of a Garrett.

There is one Audi A4 2.1 stroker than ran it but not much more info on it. THey use them more on drifiting projects / japan cars with success.

Some people even put a ko3 5 psi actuator control the mechanism.

Here is a vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=TqJvzYxycTA
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Terror_Flynn
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2020, 06:09:47 PM »

Holset Super HX35, oil and watercooled.
T3 singel entry, 8cm2 housing, 4 Bolt. About 300-450hp.
Non internal WG.
Compressor: 54/77mm
Turbine: 65/55mm

Holset HX30W. About 400hp, internal WG. T3 single entry.
Compressor: 44mm
Turbine: 52mm
Turbine housing: 6cm2, V-band.




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Audi A4 Avant 1.8t Quattro -2001 (AWT)
RBPE
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2020, 08:54:09 AM »

They sound more shop specific details which is sometimes what you need to enquire about, there are tons of turbine options on each of the Holsets, "Super" HX's are what's usually advertised for the more petrol orientated ones nowadays. Good luck on folks trying to get Huddersfield ones for any decent price in the UK, quotes of £1k+ is what I was getting a few years ago for 35/40's - was actually cheaper for me to get EFR's and I only live 30 odd miles away from Huddersfield and with trade accounts at the time! U.S. market seems far better for prices/options.

Interested to see how you get on with the 221 FB, what you hoping to crack, 300 brake? I think they're about 36lbs/min if I remember right, was leaning more towards the HX30 when I looked into it before better quality GTX copies came along in recent years.
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Blazius
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2020, 11:09:08 AM »

They sound more shop specific details which is sometimes what you need to enquire about, there are tons of turbine options on each of the Holsets, "Super" HX's are what's usually advertised for the more petrol orientated ones nowadays. Good luck on folks trying to get Huddersfield ones for any decent price in the UK, quotes of £1k+ is what I was getting a few years ago for 35/40's - was actually cheaper for me to get EFR's and I only live 30 odd miles away from Huddersfield and with trade accounts at the time! U.S. market seems far better for prices/options.

Interested to see how you get on with the 221 FB, what you hoping to crack, 300 brake? I think they're about 36lbs/min if I remember right, was leaning more towards the HX30 when I looked into it before better quality GTX copies came along in recent years.

Well you can get geniune ones from Wuxi for pretty cheap , if you are willing to wait obviously. Also saying HX35/hx30 or etc. is kinda irrelevant as there are over 200 variations of these turbochargers with different cm's , compressor, turbine etc. sizes.

Yes the 221 flows for 37 lb/min.
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prj
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2020, 11:16:54 AM »

Holset CHRA weight is much higher and the transient response is horrible, that's why it's a bad idea to use a truck turbo on a car.
They are built for reliability first, everything else second. Most of these turbos don't even have electronic control in the applications where they are used.

As for VGT, Porsche has been using VGT turbos for a while on the 911 Turbo.

But it's not so simple as to just take a normal turbo and run VGT on it.
Most of the turbos when run on gasoline engines tend to be very close to the surge line for the compressor. There is some work to be done to have a compressor and turbine that will benefit from VGT without just sitting on the surge line all the time.
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fukenbroken
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2020, 12:05:48 PM »

Described as 37lbs iirc slightly moar than 30hx and physically smaller so it's a bit easier to install
Hope it gives up to ~320 bhp with fast response. they're rated as 360 but i cannot believe it's possible with 7cm 0.49ar hotside and tiny 44mm comp inducer  Roll Eyes

Prj, little turbo pretty close to td04 and I didn't see noticeable difference in chra weight or geometry. There is no huge hub with tiny blades as usually on brutal trucks or the k24 we are started from and the main reason itl costs twise as much as kinugawa anti surge housing for td04 so I'm in
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Blazius
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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2020, 12:43:18 PM »

Described as 37lbs iirc slightly moar than 30hx and physically smaller so it's a bit easier to install
Hope it gives up to ~320 bhp with fast response. they're rated as 360 but i cannot believe it's possible with 7cm 0.49ar hotside and tiny 44mm comp inducer  Roll Eyes

Prj, little turbo pretty close to td04 and I didn't see noticeable difference in chra weight or geometry. There is no huge hub with tiny blades as usually on brutal trucks or the k24 we are started from and the main reason itl costs twise as much as kinugawa anti surge housing for td04 so I'm in

Holset makes/made some pretty good turbos, pretty much all their equalivents back in the day outflowed their Garrett counterparts ( like gt30s andsuch) , sure they aint the pinnacle of enginnering now but they still make some good stuff with very good value for the money, the cheapest you can go from this is china stuff.

Im sure it will be a fun car. ( Is this your personal/daily ? or ? )
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rogerius
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2020, 01:01:23 PM »

Described as 37lbs iirc slightly moar than 30hx and physically smaller so it's a bit easier to install
Hope it gives up to ~320 bhp with fast response. they're rated as 360 but i cannot believe it's possible with 7cm 0.49ar hotside and tiny 44mm comp inducer  Roll Eyes

Prj, little turbo pretty close to td04 and I didn't see noticeable difference in chra weight or geometry. There is no huge hub with tiny blades as usually on brutal trucks or the k24 we are started from and the main reason itl costs twise as much as kinugawa anti surge housing for td04 so I'm in
FYI, I had bad experience with Kinugawa anti-surge housing...it surged, so went back to the non anti-surge one. Just my experience.
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fukenbroken
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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2020, 09:01:48 AM »

So ive done it
Had no time to tune pid etc but it's pretty good
Absolutely no surge on wot
Lovely truck sound and pretty fast response
Starts pushing at 3000-3500 depending on gear

I will post me7logs later
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RBPE
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2020, 02:19:55 AM »

So ive done it
Had no time to tune pid etc but it's pretty good
Absolutely no surge on wot
Lovely truck sound and pretty fast response
Starts pushing at 3000-3500 depending on gear

I will post me7logs later

So what's this, 221 in a TD04 turbine housing? Both 7cm? Looks strong, 1-1.2bar ish to 1.8 ish in 500rpms! You'll have to delete the thread once you've tuned & posted, all the hybrid K03/4 lot will be after you!  Wink
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Blazius
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« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2020, 02:37:51 AM »

So what's this, 221 in a TD04 turbine housing? Both 7cm? Looks strong, 1-1.2bar ish to 1.8 ish in 500rpms! You'll have to delete the thread once you've tuned & posted, all the hybrid K03/4 lot will be after you!  Wink

Smiley lol
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prj
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2020, 03:19:19 AM »

The problem with these turbos is not the spoolup, the spoolup is fine even on the HX35 when you look at a log from low RPM.
The problem is transient response with sudden load change in higher RPM. Where a gasoline ball bearing turbo gives you almost instant full boost these things take almost a second in transient response.

This has been tested and debunked already 10 years ago on 2.2T platform.
People also posted logs flooring car from low RPM, showing "how good" it is - anyone who's actually driven two configs knows that it's a load of horse shit.

The positive of the holset turbos is that it's:
1) cheap
2) reliable

Performance is not comparable in any way to gasoline oriented modern turbochargers. But of course the price is not really comparable either.
You get what you pay for.
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fukenbroken
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« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2020, 09:46:29 AM »

It's definitely responses way quickier than td04hl19t
Take a short video way home, the boost gauge in the dash screen scaled as 0; 0.5; 1.0; 1.5 bar boost and the clutch slippering here so
https://youtu.be/Ujifopc9X74

Yes both are 7cm

I'd say it's a good alternative to k04 it's super fun in the mid-range but chokes after 5500 idk how about stock hotside but they are same a/r so i dont think much diff here

Of course some efr turbos completely destroys it but it's all about the price you know


« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 09:54:36 AM by fukenbroken » Logged
RBPE
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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2020, 03:29:29 AM »

It's definitely responses way quickier than td04hl19t
Take a short video way home, the boost gauge in the dash screen scaled as 0; 0.5; 1.0; 1.5 bar boost and the clutch slippering here so
https://youtu.be/Ujifopc9X74

Yes both are 7cm

I'd say it's a good alternative to k04 it's super fun in the mid-range but chokes after 5500 idk how about stock hotside but they are same a/r so i dont think much diff here

Of course some efr turbos completely destroys it but it's all about the price you know




How've you been getting on with this? Any updates?
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