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Author Topic: DSG DQ500  (Read 32450 times)
Sline
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« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2020, 08:12:33 AM »

At PQ/PL-based CAN-communication there is only one source for MDNORM and scaling (ECU)

Okay, I understand that. But then, in the 6HP19A must be a hardcoded limit, if Max Moment am Can is changed to values below 630 Nm the norm value read with vcds in the gearbox is the same as set in Max Moment am Can. All values above that result in a norm value of 630Nm and also actual engine torque values are lower than that. (in ecu I can read inner torque of 750 Nm)
Max Moment am can below 630Nm result in perfect partial load shifting behavior.

Would here help a scaling factor like Faktor für Ausgabe Motormomente am CAN (Com_facTrq_C) to get for example 2*630 in TCU?


What exactly you´ve changed ? MDNORM or MDMAXKBI ?
"Maximales Moment am CAN" ist normaly MDMAXKBI and only used for display on kombi and tuning-protection.

 I think Maximales Moment am CAN (Normierwert MDI) (Com_trqMaxNorm_C) is the same as MDNORM and what you mean is Multiplexinfo (Com_trqENG5MuxInfo0_C). As I said I'm talking about EDC.


« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 08:31:23 AM by Sline » Logged
jochen_145
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« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2020, 09:35:05 AM »

I think Maximales Moment am CAN (Normierwert MDI) (Com_trqMaxNorm_C) is the same as MDNORM and what you mean is Multiplexinfo (Com_trqENG5MuxInfo0_C). As I said I'm talking about EDC.

Take a deeper look in EDC17, but this should be simular to early EDC..
Com_trqMaxNorm_C is the right value for Normierwert MDI.

Your problem is, 630Nm is maximum value for MO2_max_Mo, signal is only 6bit and factor 10.
So, if you change Com_trqMaxNorm_C in EDC higher than 630Nm, CAN bus is limited and will still send 630Nm (FF FF FF). TCU will calculate torque on 630Nm and torque modell is bended ..
(I never need to chance this value in this range in my projects so fare, so did not have in mind the maximum of MO2_max_Mo  Undecided )
So, no chance send higher value in CAN doesn´t care if Diesel or Pentrol..

You need to rescale MO2_max_Mo on CAN-DBC, witch has effect on all participans on AntriebsCAN because you chanced DBC and interface between all controlers.
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Sline
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« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2020, 01:03:45 PM »

Take a deeper look in EDC17, but this should be simular to early EDC..
Com_trqMaxNorm_C is the right value for Normierwert MDI.

Your problem is, 630Nm is maximum value for MO2_max_Mo, signal is only 6bit and factor 10.
So, if you change Com_trqMaxNorm_C in EDC higher than 630Nm, CAN bus is limited and will still send 630Nm (FF FF FF). TCU will calculate torque on 630Nm and torque modell is bended ..
(I never need to chance this value in this range in my projects so fare, so did not have in mind the maximum of MO2_max_Mo  Undecided )
So, no chance send higher value in CAN doesn´t care if Diesel or Pentrol..

You need to rescale MO2_max_Mo on CAN-DBC, witch has effect on all participans on AntriebsCAN because you chanced DBC and interface between all controlers.


Thanks, I thought about something like this. So there is no solution to get more torque than 630 Nm into the tcu.

But which value has MO2_max_Mo? Is it the factor 10 on the 6bit value?

In tcu I have the map: Skalierungsfaktor für normiertes Motormoment. The value is 10. In RS6 TCU file this factor is set to 20. but changing the value to 20 changes nothing to the norm moment in my case from what I see in VCDS, it stays at 630. Never tested it while driving.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 01:30:08 PM by Sline » Logged
Sline
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« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2020, 12:38:32 AM »

I tested it on the MED9 with DQ500, it takes MDNORM values above 630 Nm, when I set it to 850, it's 850 aswell in the TCU.

Also looked into the files of V8 TDI, the scaling factors for all Can Messages in ecu are the same as they are in the V6 files. MDInorm is 1000 Nm instead of 620 Nm. All maps regarding to Botschaftslänge and Moment have the value 8, so are you really sure, that more than 630 Nm are not possible on that Can Bus generation without scaling new all can participans?
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jochen_145
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« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2020, 02:27:20 PM »

I tested it on the MED9 with DQ500, it takes MDNORM values above 630 Nm, when I set it to 850, it's 850 aswell in the TCU
witch  Vehicle, witch CAN-Bus-Version ?
The limit is CAN version based. It can differ between plattform or versions.
PQ-based CAN-Bus got the limit of 630Nm in all versions (upto V566)

Quote
Also looked into the files of V8 TDI, the scaling factors for all Can Messages in ecu are the same as they are in the V6 files. MDInorm is 1000 Nm instead of 620 Nm.
V8 and V6 are not PQ. They are PL but Audi A6 C6 (V241) is also limited to 630Nm on CAN.
Never take a look to RS6, but e.g. R10-Touareg should also use 1000Nm. Both are not PQ-based and may use there own DBC-Version, like the Bugatties too
Quote
All maps regarding to Botschaftslänge and Moment have the value 8, so are you really sure, that more than 630 Nm are not possible on that Can Bus generation without scaling new all can participans?
MO2_max_Mo is a 6bit value, see attachmend. Bit 7 and 8 is used for multiplexer-value.
On PQ-based CAN, the scaling factor is 10, so no chance to send more the 630Nm without chancing the factor.

It is possible to recale MO2_max_MO.
If you do on ECU, you chance  the CAN Interface, witch is fix in DBC based on defintion.
If you chance this defintion, you need to chance the scaling on every controler, with reads this value from CAN.
Scaling factor is not communicated on CAN, so no "autoadjust", when you chance it in ECU application.
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Sline
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« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2020, 12:52:52 AM »

witch  Vehicle, witch CAN-Bus-Version ?


It's a VW Polo 6R with CDL eingine from TT S and DQ500 from RSQ3. So car is PQ25 and Engine and Gearbox is PQ35.

The limit is CAN version based. It can differ between plattform or versions.
PQ-based CAN-Bus got the limit of 630Nm in all versions (upto V566)
V8 and V6 are not PQ. They are PL but Audi A6 C6 (V241) is also limited to 630Nm on CAN.
Never take a look to RS6, but e.g. R10-Touareg should also use 1000Nm. Both are not PQ-based and may use there own DBC-Version, like the Bugatties tooMO2_max_Mo is a 6bit value, see attachmend. Bit 7 and 8 is used for multiplexer-value.
On PQ-based CAN, the scaling factor is 10, so no chance to send more the 630Nm without chancing the factor.

It is possible to recale MO2_max_MO.
If you do on ECU, you chance  the CAN Interface, witch is fix in DBC based on defintion.
If you chance this defintion, you need to chance the scaling on every controler, with reads this value from CAN.
Scaling factor is not communicated on CAN, so no "autoadjust", when you chance it in ECU application.


My Car is Audi A6 C6, so limited to 630Nm.

Okay with this post you answered all my questions. Thank you
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jochen_145
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« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2020, 10:48:45 AM »

It's a VW Polo 6R with CDL eingine from TT S and DQ500 from RSQ3. So car is PQ25 and Engine and Gearbox is PQ35.

No, RSQ3 is MQB based, not PQ.
MQB can change MO_Faktor_Momente_02 in ECU and it will be send on CAN, so easy to change the limit for torque on CAN.
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Sline
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« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2020, 01:44:29 AM »

Okay, but the car has PQ platform. Kennbuchstabe is NZU, the gearbox is an 0BH, it has no immo inside, like normal MQB cars, or RS3 with 0DL gearbox.
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IamwhoIam
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« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2020, 02:18:10 AM »

Yep, agreed. Maybe it's MQB "based" but the whole car is PQ and VERY similar to 8P RS3 if it wasn't for the lack of MED9 ECU.
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I have no logs because I have a boost gauge (makes things easier)
Piar
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« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2020, 11:11:21 AM »

Guys! i have a problem with full throttle shift
car is shifting earlier than i want/ i have found 25 SHALT tabele 3d maps 14*21
but also i have found 3 2d maps, which located at #26A34 #28364 #269E0 which seems to be full throttle shift tables because it have 2 byte size
but during testing car still shift earlier
who knows dq500 logic and can help?
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bk56190
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« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2020, 12:24:53 PM »

Hello Piar,

In which mode do you want to modify ? Drive ? Sport ?
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Piar
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« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2020, 12:48:04 PM »

Hello Piar,

In which mode do you want to modify ? Drive ? Sport ?
all modes
drive\sport\amax(start from launch)
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bk56190
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« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2020, 12:55:13 PM »

Drive : SHALT tabele 3d maps 14*21 at adress 24250

Sport : SHALT tabele 3d maps 14*21 at adress 2440C
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Piar
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« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2020, 01:35:48 PM »

Drive : SHALT tabele 3d maps 14*21 at adress 24250

Sport : SHALT tabele 3d maps 14*21 at adress 2440C
I have changed this maps with no luck
shift point is takin place earlier than written in this tables
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bk56190
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« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2020, 11:10:34 PM »

Damn, so I suppose one of the 2d maps IS a limiter. Don't know which one, but if you know the currently speed for upshift, you can search and try, difficult without the FR.
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