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Author Topic: High positive STFT on high load  (Read 3514 times)
larppaxyz
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« on: March 17, 2020, 12:05:33 PM »

Again, with questions :

Got my torque limiting issues solved, timing maps right and now i'm working on my fueling. I finally figured out LAMFA axis, stock bin had it set to 117-120%, so it was only used when throttle was pressed to kickdown levels (KFPED shows that it goes to 120%).  This _almost_ made my part throttle driving experience (specially on parts where boost is coming on) butter smooth.

Anyway. That helped me quite a bit, but still not just right. While going full throttle (or near) and i hit full boost i can see STFT's coming way up, up to +25% and i can feel some light bucking.

So my question, is it normal for STFT to go high on full throttle generally? Or does it exactly mean that ECU can't meet requested AFR? Actual AFR looks fine even when STFT shoots up. This is NA to FI conversion, running 50% ethanol. I have upgraded injectors and KRKTE is adjusted for this fuel mixture and injector combination (LTFT around -10 - -3%). ME7 setup with WB O2 sensors. Is this caused by stock NA maps that just are not responsive enough for boost? I see that there are other fueling maps than LAMFA, should i work with those?

Thanks again.






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nyet
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2020, 12:41:53 PM »

is it normal for STFT to go high on full throttle generally?

Absolutely not

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Or does it exactly mean that ECU can't meet requested AFR? Actual AFR looks fine even when STFT shoots up
It means the feedforward estimate of what fueling should be is wrong based on MAF reading.

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This is NA to FI conversion, running 50% ethanol.
You have bitten off way more than you can chew
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Kompiesto
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2020, 10:25:01 PM »

Make turbo on me7 is not simple thing. You are hit 120%. In my opinion is maximum load for NA and ecu not calculate more fuel. Me7 is limited to 100% + extra corrections. You can rescale load but is not proper way of FI conversion of this ecu.
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2020, 10:36:26 PM »

I find it baffling that people think they can just bolt on a turbo to an NA torque based ECU.
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larppaxyz
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2020, 04:09:59 AM »

Right.

After looking more into it, my true issue here is that stock MAF is flatting out (and i simply cannot replace it), it didn't drop out and be ignored like i was expecting, instead reading just flattened to 292g/s (in my case). That is causing STFT's to come up as rpms go up. That was not my main issue, since there is still enough room for fuel delivery to keep up with AFR. However, i was controlling AFR using LAMFA and KFLF and i now think that those are ignored when MAF is flatlined, resulting lambda 1 AFR-

I then played around with KFMLDMN and KFMLDMX (and delays) to trigger MAF error in a controller way, but it still didn't quite make sense to me why AFR is forced to lambda 1 when MAF is out.

I then found this thread http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=141.0 and it actually has exactly the information i need (now that i know i need it).

You could say, that what i'm trying to do here is going mafless on areas where my stock MAF is maxed out.

Oh, one more thing... nyet... please stop spamming my threads.


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cerips
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2020, 03:56:13 PM »

You're controlling fuelling based on airflow, but the sensor you're using to measure the airflow (maf) can't measure the airflow rate you're getting. How do you expect to control the fuelling based on the maf without the airflow rate being correct?
Why can't you install a bigger maf, or a bigger housing?
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2020, 07:45:41 PM »

You could say, that what i'm trying to do here is going mafless on areas where my stock MAF is maxed out.
MAFless is alpha-n, not speed density on these ECUs. You are quite literally never going to get this car running correctly w/o going standalone or doing a complete rewrite of the entire load path in ASM patches.

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Oh, one more thing... nyet... please stop spamming my threads.

Yes, by all means ignore the people who can actually tell you how things work.

Not going to happen, because some dumbass is going to look at your thought process and think its a good idea.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
nyet
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2020, 07:47:28 PM »

Why can't you install a bigger maf, or a bigger housing?

MAF underscaling isn't going to help.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

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larppaxyz
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2020, 02:49:37 AM »

You're controlling fuelling based on airflow, but the sensor you're using to measure the airflow (maf) can't measure the airflow rate you're getting. How do you expect to control the fuelling based on the maf without the airflow rate being correct?
Why can't you install a bigger maf, or a bigger housing?

I'm expecting fueling to be controller by wideband O2 sensors alone when MAF is over it's limit. After few test runs it looks like i can control it with KFLAMKRL map. I can't swap bigger housing, because i don't have enough room and i wan't to keep my engine bay looking stock (where possible).

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larppaxyz
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2020, 03:04:00 AM »

MAFless is alpha-n, not speed density on these ECUs. You are quite literally never going to get this car running correctly w/o going standalone or doing a complete rewrite of the entire load path in ASM patches.

It actually works quite well, i don't understand why you keep ignoring that. I have driven and owned all kinds of cars and i think i have pretty good feeling about how car should generally respond to throtthe. Sure, there are issues that can't be fixed, like when boost is building up and it starts pulling more and more with me keeping steady (or reducing) throttle. For me, it's not a problem since it's quite a big turbo, and doesn't do much when daily driving on traffic. Below 3000 rpm, it fells like stock setup. 

Overall, you saying it's not possible and drivability is horrible. It's simply not true in my case. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's because it's heavy car, big turbo, cold environment or what.

I can agree, that for most people, project like this would never see road, but saying it's not possible to get it right enough is just false information.






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nyet
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2020, 09:09:59 AM »

I can agree, that for most people, project like this would never see road, but saying it's not possible to get it right enough is just false information.

alpha-n is a crap hack to get you home. It's a piece of crappy engineering.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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