Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: E85 and timing  (Read 931 times)
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« on: May 21, 2020, 06:35:21 AM »

K04 hybrid, rods, DW265 pump, 630 injectors with 4 bar fpr so 715cc or so. Seeing max of 90% DC and fuel is following request so I have fueling sorted. When I was running 93 I was only getting occasional single digit CFs at 13* advance at peak load...so after verifying fuel was good after the switch to E85 I incrementally added timing up top and am now at 23*. Obviously no CF because E85. KFZWOP is 33* up top on a lot of stock timing files. Anyone have any experience getting closer to KFZWOP than I currently am without hurting parts??
Logged
gman86
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +39/-125
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 08:32:01 AM »

K04 hybrid, rods, DW265 pump, 630 injectors with 4 bar fpr so 715cc or so. Seeing max of 90% DC and fuel is following request so I have fueling sorted. When I was running 93 I was only getting occasional single digit CFs at 13* advance at peak load...so after verifying fuel was good after the switch to E85 I incrementally added timing up top and am now at 23*. Obviously no CF because E85. KFZWOP is 33* up top on a lot of stock timing files. Anyone have any experience getting closer to KFZWOP than I currently am without hurting parts??

If you're no longer knock limited, you need a dyno to figure out MBT.
Logged
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 05:36:27 PM »

Fair enough....going to wait for dyno until after 5120 then....no sense in doing it twice. Thanks!
Logged
prj
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +348/-71
Offline Offline

Posts: 3897


« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 01:48:24 AM »

Good start is to set KFZW = KFZWOP.
30 degrees on high rpm is just fine.

But obviously it's best on a dyno to see where it stops making power.
Logged
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 09:20:12 AM »

Thank you PRJ. I will eventually spend some time on the dyno to find MBT, but until then that is exactly what I was hoping for. “This is as far as you should push it without being on a dyno”. Thanks again.
Logged
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 09:24:09 AM »

Also, with Nyets approval I think I’m going to post the BIN for 93 as well as E85 with a list of everything done to the car in the community tunes section. i have searched E85 and timing in every way I could think of on here and there are several threads with good information, but it took a long time to find and weed through what was true and who just got lucky. One thread with what I have learned to get this thing running good (by my standards anyway) will hopefully be helpful to others.
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +467/-70
Online Online

Posts: 10618


WWW
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 11:11:14 AM »

Also, with Nyets approval I think I’m going to post the BIN for 93 as well as E85 with a list of everything done to the car in the community tunes section. i have searched E85 and timing in every way I could think of on here and there are several threads with good information, but it took a long time to find and weed through what was true and who just got lucky. One thread with what I have learned to get this thing running good (by my standards anyway) will hopefully be helpful to others.

Your bin, do as you please Smiley
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 11:43:05 AM »

Awesome  Smiley a few months ago I made my first post after losing commercial software. I owe the site for where I am now.
Logged
prj
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +348/-71
Offline Offline

Posts: 3897


« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 03:37:38 PM »

Thank you PRJ. I will eventually spend some time on the dyno to find MBT, but until then that is exactly what I was hoping for. “This is as far as you should push it without being on a dyno”. Thanks again.

It's pretty much impossible to tell though, it could stop making power at 25-28 degrees, could still make power up to 30 degrees @ 7000 rpm.
Depends what's done to the engine.

But generally KFZW/OP is MBT on research fuel as per calibration documents.
Without a dyno, take KFZWOP, knock off around 3-5 degrees and you should be pretty safe.
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +467/-70
Online Online

Posts: 10618


WWW
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2020, 04:37:03 PM »

Without a dyno, take KFZWOP, knock off around 3-5 degrees and you should be pretty safe.

I would just take this approach, there isn't that much you will be leaving on the table; there are plenty of other places to look for more power first.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
BlackT
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +34/-16
Offline Offline

Posts: 703



« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2020, 05:25:26 PM »

What about fueling? What is your desired lambda?
Logged
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 12:27:14 PM »

In my logs I’m seeing .78-.82 lambda
Logged
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 12:31:28 PM »

That said...I have also confirmed with my version of ME7.5 anyways that fueling flat lines at .75 lambda.
Logged
Jorgeminator
Newbie
*

Karma: +5/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 13

Golf MkIV 1.8T AUM


« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2020, 01:13:35 PM »

I'm currently running my otherwise stock 1.8T on E85 with the timings slightly modified. Would be really interested in your findings. Especially in the low throttle & low load areas where the engine is not knock limited I'm experimenting with a slight retard due to the quicker flame speed of E85, for a slight improvement in economy. This is how SAAB tuned their 1.8T BioPower for running E85, reducing the timing at cruise loads in lower RPM areas. They actually pulled towards 10°  Shocked in some fields compared to the gasoline map. Obviously different engines but I'm thinking the fuel properties are still the same, hence the minor timing retard in my map. My map below:



Offset compared to stock:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 02:53:33 PM by Jorgeminator » Logged
justinvw2646
Full Member
***

Karma: +5/-2
Online Online

Posts: 52


« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2020, 08:36:30 AM »

When I get home I will post screen shots of KFZW and KFZWOP. I do not have VVT on mine anymore so I didnt touch the tables for when camshaft adjustment is enabled.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.023 seconds with 17 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.001s, 0q)