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Author Topic: Simos18 - wastegate duty tuning (maestro)  (Read 5883 times)
jamespinger
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« on: September 27, 2020, 08:24:59 AM »

I hope this is acceptable here.  I'm currently using eurodyne maestro to tune my mk7 sportwagen (1.8t).
I understand maestro tables are (can be) different than some of the OEM tables, but I'm hoping since there's no loader file associated with this tune, that the OEM strategies are still in place.  There's no "BT" file available for the 1.8tsi - My current tune is based off the is20 file.

I have a hybrid IS38 installed.  Upgraded intake/intercooler/downpipe etc.  I also have MPI and a LPFP installed (though it's non functional with maestro at this point in time, so I'm running with the factory HPFP).

I think I've got a decent understanding of the general ecu strategies with respect to driver input, max torque, airflow set point etc.  That said, I don't have access to the modeled airflow tables for the turbocharger, so it's likely that the ECU is using the IS12 (or IS20 if Chris has modified them) airflow tables.  Boost targeting seems to (mostly) work well.

My current problem is that PUT ends up exceeding PUT_SP, and the wg doesn't accurately adjust to bring it back down to target.  It wouldn't be a big deal if I had the fueling to support it, but in it's current state I can get to the point where rail pressure starts to drop dramatically (since it will continue to build boost towards redline).  My current workaround is to lower the max torque in 2nd gear, which ultimately lowers the PUT_SP to a point where the deviation doesn't get me as far into my fuel system restriction.  3rd has the same problem, but it's not as dramatic (or doesn't seem to be).

The WGDC tables available are labeled "Boost pressure" on the X, and "first parameter for precontrol and adaptation" on the Y.  Cobb says that X is "intake flow factor" and Y is "exhaust flow factor"... though if that's the case then those are two things that I can't log.

An example of a 3rd gear log showing the way the boost builds after reaching SP:
https://www.simoswiki.com/images/0/05/Wgdc_tuning_3rdgear.png

What table can I look at to adjust how the wastegate responds after going into closed loop (since changes I've made to the wgdc table only appear to affect the way boost ramps immediately after reaching the sp). If the wg tables in maestro are the right ones.... What exactly is the Y, and why does it seem like nomatter how high I make those, the wg never seems to open enough to bring boost back down?
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littco
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2020, 12:46:59 PM »

You are correct but the issue is that x and Y are fed by 3 different modelled variables each , that have little relevance when a non stock turbo is used.

Why? Well the turbine pressure is fed into the axis, in your case based on the smaller turbine wheel along with the modelled speed based on a egt which is also modelled. End result the axis pretty much becomes wasted.

However from alot of experience I can tell you adjust the bottom 2 rows and last 2 columns is pretty much where you will need to adjust to change the prepids into controlling the actuator acceptably.

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prj
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2020, 12:24:58 AM »

Your only options are either logging and adjusting the axis of ip_fac_bpa_sp[0] and ip_fac_bpa_sp[1] or replacing the axis on them with PUT_SP and N, then filling them with linearization data the same way as detailed here for ME7.
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jamespinger
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2020, 10:54:54 AM »

Thank you both.  I'll review both options.

@littco - when you say the last two columns... Eurodyne rescaled the X since it's labeled as "boost pressure".  I believe the code doesn't have the modifications that prj mentions (since that functionality IS available in the BT files, I'm assuming there's ASW changes to handle things that way, but I need to investigate).

If that's the case - can you share what you use as the X and Y maximum values?  (I'll tune my own cells, but ) since the X says "boost pressure" it's range goes up to 1.73 (which I believe is much higher than any legitimate values). Y goes up to 1.59.

Eurodyne also flips all of the X and Y values (vs what I've found while looking through the Damos), so it adds a mental step.

I wrote a logger that uses the 0x2c available in eurodyne.  I assume the flow factors (input into the X and Y of the wastegate tables) available as memory addresses that I could read?
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prj
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2020, 02:04:38 AM »

You can buy my logger, and I can patch the eurodyne patch in your file to work with it, if you want.
With the logger comes the full ram data...

As for the label "boost pressure" there is no way to know if they didn't just replace one of the factors with put_sp. For that disassembly is needed.
I never bothered to look in detail, there's a bunch of patches done in the ASW, but I have better things to do than reverse someone elses code.
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2020, 12:32:54 PM »

You can buy my logger, and I can patch the eurodyne patch in your file to work with it, if you want.
With the logger comes the full ram data...

From what i can tell this is well worth the cost.
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2020, 04:02:17 PM »

From what i can tell this is well worth the cost.

200%
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jamespinger
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 04:07:44 PM »

I don't doubt that the logger is worth the money (whatever the cost may be).
However, if I had the memory addresses for the ASW that I'm running then I have the capability of logging them already.  No additional patches necessary.
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prj
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2020, 07:52:07 AM »

Well, that's the point isn't it. You don't. Wink
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jamespinger
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2020, 04:55:15 AM »

Lol, I didn't. My damos didn't have them but the a2L I got does.

Funny how the whole industry is driven by information gathered from a grey market of definition files.

Anywho.... I pulled in all the modeled tables from an is38 car (turbo speed, etc) since those feed into the wastegate table. I also pulled in the bpa setpoint tables from the is38 car.
Wastegate control was instantly better with no tweaks to the tables.  The hybrid is obviously quite a bit different from the is12 models that the stock file had. Something was pegged.
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jamespinger
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2020, 06:27:00 PM »

If you knew what a damos and an A2L were, you wouldn't have made that retarded statement above LOL

Given that I have <20 posts on here, I'm sorry I haven't been kicking around the tuning scene for decades. You're absolutely right. I had no idea.  Your post is super productive.

There's an INCREDIBLE lack of willingness on the part of the community to help newcomers and I can't quite figure it out.  I came on here to learn something, I've made generally well thought out (though possibly misinformed?) posts, and I've made a bunch of progress. 

Trying to keep it back on topic, @littco, maybe I should pull in the modeled EGT tables as well?  I only pulled the standardized turbo pressure and speed tables (which I thought accounted for the majority of the changes between is12 and the is38).
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ktm733
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2022, 08:00:22 PM »

Well, that's the point isn't it. You don't. Wink

Did you make a patch for simos 12 yet?
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prj
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2022, 12:54:24 AM »

If you mean logger, then that supports S12.
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