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Author Topic: Krkte problem  (Read 6018 times)
tadope
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« on: August 09, 2021, 08:45:35 AM »

Hi. I just installed a 4bar fpr to get more fuel overhead.
I have an audi tt narrowband amu.  K04 turbo.  stock injectors(386cc), high flow pump.
The original krtke was .083  so I did 75% of that and plugged it in. gave me .062
And it works.  kinda.

My problem is that it ran smooth at first (though with some light backfiring)
but after I did my first WOT pull the idle went very lumpy, and the car started backfiring all over the place.

On top of that, me7logger doesn't show anything for fuel trims. logging rkat_w, fra_w, fr_w don't show anything. It looks like the logger cant read them or something

Shouldn't 3/4 krkte be all that is needed? or is there something i'm missing when making fuel pressure changes?
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Sandstorm3k
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2021, 02:32:17 PM »

No that is extremely completely wrong lol, use KRKTE calculator instead.
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_nameless
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2021, 03:18:01 PM »

Hi. I just installed a 4bar fpr to get more fuel overhead.
I have an audi tt narrowband amu.  K04 turbo.  stock injectors(386cc), high flow pump.
The original krtke was .083  so I did 75% of that and plugged it in. gave me .062
And it works.  kinda.

My problem is that it ran smooth at first (though with some light backfiring)
but after I did my first WOT pull the idle went very lumpy, and the car started backfiring all over the place.

On top of that, me7logger doesn't show anything for fuel trims. logging rkat_w, fra_w, fr_w don't show anything. It looks like the logger cant read them or something

Shouldn't 3/4 krkte be all that is needed? or is there something i'm missing when making fuel pressure changes?
3 to 4 bar is as simple as krkte x 1.17
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tadope
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2021, 05:16:38 PM »

3 to 4 bar is as simple as krkte x 1.17

Isnt that making it even more rich?
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_nameless
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2021, 06:15:28 AM »

Isnt that making it even more rich?
I guess ill elaborate a little further. 386 x 1.17= 451. (386 x current krkte) / 451 = new krkte
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_nameless
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2021, 06:17:45 AM »

or just subtract 17% from your current krkte. Whatever floats your boat.
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tadope
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2021, 12:54:14 PM »

Thanks Marty!   That worked.
Turns out I was running way lean.

I'm surprised that it was such a small decrease.
It went from .083 to .075. 
I would've expected a bigger change for such a big fuel pressure increase
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tadope
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2021, 05:05:23 AM »

Update:. So I was curious why the krtke change was so small.  And decided to try stock 3bar krtke with the 4bar fpr

It works just fine! Car runs smooth.

So. What gives? Why can I simply up my fuel pressure without needing any changes?
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prj
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2021, 05:56:30 AM »

A good start would be to do some reading about some basics in physics and a general book about engine tuning.
You are changing things without having any understanding how the underlying system works...

The flow increases as a square root from the pressure change.
So for going from 3 bar FPR to 4 bar FPR, it is sqrt(4/3.0)*krkte.
For inverse direction sqrt(3/4.0)*krkte.

This is very very basics physics. Of course if you do 75% of krkte it will be too lean. To get 25% you would have to increase the pressure from 3 to 4.7 bar.
And chances are that you don't know this either, but to produce a static pressure over the injector tip of 4.7 bar at 2 bar boost, the fuel pump has to be able to supply 6.7 bar.
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nyet
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2021, 09:10:32 PM »

Thanks Marty!   That worked.
Turns out I was running way lean.

I'm surprised that it was such a small decrease.
It went from .083 to .075. 
I would've expected a bigger change for such a big fuel pressure increase

.083 to .075 is the same change as 83,000,000 to 75,000,000

would you consider the latter to be a "small decrease"?
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robek85
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2021, 02:38:28 AM »

Update:. So I was curious why the krtke change was so small.  And decided to try stock 3bar krtke with the 4bar fpr

It works just fine! Car runs smooth.

So. What gives? Why can I simply up my fuel pressure without needing any changes?

Have you actually measured fuel pressure? From my experience (and measurement) old pumps struggle reaching 4bar pressure even on idle. Once you get in the boost zone you may only see a tad more than 3bar. Like 3,2bar.
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tadope
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2021, 12:41:05 PM »

.083 to .075 is the same change as 83,000,000 to 75,000,000

would you consider the latter to be a "small decrease"?

Ooooh.  That makes it more clear
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tadope
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2021, 12:43:35 PM »

Have you actually measured fuel pressure? From my experience (and measurement) old pumps struggle reaching 4bar pressure even on idle. Once you get in the boost zone you may only see a tad more than 3bar. Like 3,2bar.

Yes I am monitoring everything with a pressure gauge in cabin.  I'm seeing correct pressure at idle and proper increase as boost rises.   I have a kemso 265lph fuel pump.

I was going to try a 5bar fpr for even more overhead, but the kemso is rated at max 90psi.

I'm surprised fuel pumps are so weak max psi.  4bars come stock in many many 1.8t
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Blazius
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021, 01:23:07 PM »

Yes I am monitoring everything with a pressure gauge in cabin.  I'm seeing correct pressure at idle and proper increase as boost rises.   I have a kemso 265lph fuel pump.

I was going to try a 5bar fpr for even more overhead, but the kemso is rated at max 90psi.

I'm surprised fuel pumps are so weak max psi.  4bars come stock in many many 1.8t

Uh thats not how it works? "overhead? What do you mean?
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nyet
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2021, 02:44:06 PM »

I was going to try a 5bar fpr for even more overhead

ya that won't do what you think it does

if you mean fueling overhead, maybe, but after 4.5bar or more the fueling system starts getting very non-linear
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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